Israelis show declining zest for military service

[bemildred]

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In 1997, according to army statistics, fewer than one in 10 Israeli men avoided their mandatory three-year military service. These days, it's closer to three in 10.

Women, too, are opting out at a faster pace: Over the last decade, the number of women avoiding military duty rose from 37 percent to 44 percent.

The steady decline in Israelis willing to serve in the army has generated a stinging new backlash against draft dodgers. And it has sparked renewed public debate over the dominant role the military plays in the nation's politics, culture and society.

Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi set the tone last summer by declaring that the military should "bring the blush of shame back into the cheeks of the draft dodgers."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/29206.html

[jeff30997]

1. Perfect!

Anything mandatory makes me sick.

[Tom Joad]

3. and while your at it, don't forget to tell your govt, to let US refusers stay.

LET THEM STAY.
Canada did right by military resisters during the Vietnam conflict, they need to do it again.
I should be writing them too, but i'm sure your voice will be more likely to be heard.

thanks!

[Tom Joad]

2. god bless those resisters.

refuse, refuse, refuse.

[Lithos]

4. You do realize that most are going into religious studies

As they feel that is a better use of their time. Most of those tend to be more conservative and less sympathetic towards Palestine.

L-

[Hardrada]

5. Couldn't they be exempted if they went to a community college

and got a degree in industrial arts or computer graphics?

[Lithos]

6. Don't know

Probably not as things are setup now, don't know if it would be something which could happen in the future. Might ask someone else such as Pelsar.

[pelsar]

12. college comes after service..

there are programs, where they go to college first...but then they "owe" the army additional years within the profession. Lithos however had a point...many of those who dont go in the army go to religious studies and in fact reject the society......they put themselves on the fringes, the religious fringes and that is a very bad thing.

the IDF is actually the best integrator that israel has..it gives those with little education, technical professions that can be used as civilians as well as a step in the world outside as well as reducing the prejudice as the different peoples meet and work together.

Many of the religious get their first meeting with the non religious in the army..and a high percentage join their new friends in being non religious.....a sore point with the religious environment.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. The IDF and integration...

the IDF is actually the best integrator that israel has..it gives those with little education, technical professions that can be used as civilians as well as a step in the world outside as well as reducing the prejudice as the different peoples meet and work together.

In that case, doesn't that make for a strong argument that Israeli-Arabs shouldn't be exempt from mandatory military service? They aren't being given the same opportunity for integration as Israeli-Jews, Druze, and some Bedouin. Mind you, I'm opposed to mandatory military service, but I'm even more opposed to it when citizens of a country are made exempt because of their ethnicity....

[eyl]

25. True

But no-one wants to start the political mess drating them would cause. There are enough problems with the recent drive to encourage Israeli Arabs to volunteer for National Service.

[hifalutin]

7. Perhaps studying the

Good Book will help their soul searching and provide the answers they are looking for.

[Lithos]

10. "The Good Book" is the bible

Don't think that's a book that will be read. Who knows, perhaps there is a Yeshiva out there which promotes such things. Don't know myself.

L-

[hifalutin]

11. I may be wrong but I do believe the

Jewish people call the Hebrew Bible (the Torah) the Good Book.

[Lithos]

13. Perhaps so

I've only heard it used to denote the Christian Bible, specifically the Protestant bibles such as the "KJV" and "NIV". That is something which I doubt would be read.

[Crunchy Frog]

18. I remember the term being used by Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof.

I don't know how representative that is of the way people in that culture really talk.

[Tom Joad]

8. Anything to create problems for an occupation army is good. what, do you think it is worse for

them to pray or to actually join the military and carry out illegal orders?
Let them sit in religious schools and pray all they want. They don't get hurt, they don't hurt others.

Better than the secular kids i saw at the checkpoints who enjoyed denying even old people passage based on their whims (or even based on actual orders, for that matter).

Besides, there is a large refusenik movement, those who refuse based on the illegality of the occupation....that should be encouraged and nourished

What could be more nonviolent?

[Lithos]

9. Most of the settlers are ultra-religious

What could be more non-violent?

[Douglas Carpenter]

14. but are "most" of the 450,000 or so settlers actually ultra-religious?

This is an actual question. Since I'm not sure. And I honestly don't know.

I'm under the impression that if we look at the largest settlements blocks on Occupied Palestinian Territory - particularly in and around Jerusalem - many, if not most of the settlers are essentially non-ideological and not exceptionally religious. Many are there largely for the relatively cheap housing subsidized by the Israeli government.

[pelsar]

15. mixed bag...

i dont know the numbers....most are religious to some degree.....but the noisy extremists are probably the minority....but there will be a "moderate" majority that really believe that it belongs to israel...but at the sametime as in gaza may be willing to leave if the state pushes it (though i suspect a territorial swap is far more realistic)

[Phx_Dem]

16. Most estimates I have seen suggest that 30-40% of the settlers

are messianic jews, the rest are "economic" settlers.

[Lithos]

17. A fair amount of the settler movement

Is religious and for the most part backed by religious groups such as Shas. Giving the religious element more emphasis in Israel would definitely exacerbate the politics inside of Israel and probably make it harder for the moderates. As Pelsar noted, probably the only time that those raised in religious homes actually get to interact with the secular world is the military. A

similar thing happened in the US where the draft, imho, was instrumental with the rise of the liberal movement back in the '60's. The US Military became much more conservative following the ending of the draft. Note: I am NOT in favor of a draft, this was just a happy "perk", if you will.

L-

[Tom Joad]

19. You or i can't change that....

We could work on ending US aid to Israel, to block expansion of the settlements.
that is what i want to do.

Can't stop anyone's religious fervor, nor do i care to do so. We can change US policy, however.

My support is for those who refuse military service due to the illegality and immorality of the occupation.

[hifalutin]

20. But is it not

religious fervor that is the root cause of all this?

[Shaktimaan]

21. nope. not by a long shot.

It is essentially a fight over land, who gets to live on it and rule over it. There is a religious facet of it, sure. But for the most part both the Israelis and Palestinians tend towards secularism. Hamas and Shas (religious zionist political party) are not the norm for either side. While Hamas is popular, it isn't because of their religious fundamentalist tendencies but rather their political agenda.

[hifalutin]

22. Could you please explain

to my simple mind, with whom is Hamas popular?

I thought they were a terrorist group bent on annihalating the Jews and yet at odds with their own Palestinian people, killing many of them too?
It all seems very complicated.

[Shaktimaan]

23. That's true.

This conflict is nothing if not complicated. I think that's one thing we could all agree on.

Hamas is respected by many, many Palestinians for a lot of reasons, not all of them having to do with their commitment to, and relative success at, opposing Israel. After decades of corruption the Palestinians voted in Hamas because they care more about the issues than lining their pockets. They do lots of charitable work, (like Hezbollah) and are seen as putting their ideology above politics, (which they may or may not do.) They also, unfortunately, put their ideology above the security and general well-being of their citizens, but that's revolution for you.

I recently read a great primer on this conflict by Tom Friedman called "From Beirut to Jerusalem" if you're looking for a general overview of the situation. I found he made it easy to grasp some of the complex ideological aspects of the two groups, and while it wasn't short, it was really engaging. I also thought it was extremely well balanced, which is a trait that's hard to find in books on this subject. It's currently my favorite general text on the recent history and politics of the IP conflict for this reason.

If anyone else has read it and would like to comment on it, I'd like to hear what you thought of it.