Arab Cartoonists' Response To Gaza Violence: Holocaust Analogies And Anti-Semitism

[oberliner]

New York, NY, March 3, 2008 … The barrage of rocket fire from Gaza and Israel's military action to stem the attacks on its cities have prompted an outpouring of "deeply offensive and bigoted" commentary in the Arab press, whose response has come in the form of a series of rapid-fire editorial cartoons using swastikas, classical anti-Semitic images and other hateful references to the Holocaust to vilify Israel and portray the Jewish state as an aggressor with genocidal ambitions.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has posted online a selection of the most recent editorial cartoons, including cartoons appearing in Egyptian, Jordanian, and Palestinian newspapers.

"While it is not surprising that the editorial cartoonists would focus their criticism on Israel, their doing so with a mix of deeply offensive and bigoted Holocaust imagery, Jewish religious symbolism and vile stereotypes is breathtaking and at times quite shocking," said Abraham H. Foxman ADL National Director. "While we do not expect the Arab media to have a balanced view of the situation, the level of animosity and hate being aimed against Israel and Jews in response to the situation in Gaza is staggering."

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASaw_14/5240_14.htm

[hifalutin]

1. What do you think the Israelis

response to this will be?

Anything like the Muslim's response to the Danish cartoons?

I hope not!

[ChazII]

2. Look to history.

Do the Israelis have a history of killing those who offend? Do they want everyone to think like they do or be killed? Rhetorical questions on my part.

[Recursion]

3. How far back do you want to go?

Do the Israelis have a history of killing those who offend?

1 Sam 15:2-3
“Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. ‘Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Apparently.

[Jim Sagle]

4. That was then, this is now. Snap out of it.

[Vegasaurus]

5. That's hysterical

If Jews "killed others who offend" or pitched a fit over every anti-semitic cartoon (which are rampant, every day occurances in the Arab world, and much, much more offensive than any Danish cartoon), there would be no end to the violence.

The anti-semitism from the Arab world can be found in practically every newspaper daily. Go look for it. And then look for the Jewish or Israeli response. There is no rioting or hysteria over these kinds of cartoons.

[subsuelo]

11. Is it too much to ask that Muslims not be characterized

as having a "history of killing those who offend" and wanting to "think like they do or be killed"?

Not more than 2 posts into a thread denouncing making broad generalizations and slanderous stereotypes towards a religious group, and what do we have? Broad generalizations and slanderous stereotypes towards another religious group.

Come. On. People.

[LeftishBrit]

6. No. There have been plenty of anti-semitic cartoons; and the Israelis and Jews haven't rioted

[ProgressiveMuslim]

8. I'm sure all the liberals who fought for the right of the Danish cartoonist's freedom

of speech will do so for the Arab newspapers.... or does that only apply if Muslims are being bashed and offended?

[subsuelo]

9. briliant response, thanks n/t

[henank]

10. Is anyone stopping the Arabs from drawing their antisemitic cartoons?

You imply that someone is taking action, going around murdering, demonstrating or generally being violent in an effort to stop these despicable cartoons.

Or is it, in your view, only permissible to protest Muslim-bashing cartoons, whereas to protest antisemitic cartoons is somehow "unliberal" or anti-free speech?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

13. Not at all.

I can understand that it makes Israel-supporters very uncomfortable to have their behavior compared to that of the Nazis, especially when Israel's own politicians employ the imagery.

[Vegasaurus]

15. Revolting post.

The anti-semitism in the Arab press brings up blood libel and characterizing Jews as evil and hooked nosed money grubbers trying to take over the world.

The anti-semitism is not about Palestine only, or Israeli policies only, but about Jews in general.

That makes the cartoons read like Nazi propaganda.

Disgusting.

on edit:

And yet.

There is no rioting and violence that stems from Jews seeing these images, That was the point. They are day in and day out, and no one gets too upset about them. But one cartoon from a Danish cartoonist and cars are burned, there is rioting and mayhem.

I protect the rights of those who draw controversial cartoons, as well as those who comment upon them, non-violently. The Muslims who were offended could certainly have made their views known, in a non-violent manner.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vegasaurus]

17. Show me a thousandth of the anti-Arab racist cartoons

that I can show you that are anti-semitic, and we can call it a wash.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

18. I am the mom of an Arab, Muslim family. Have your gorgeous, innocent kids come home from school

crying because they're called "Osama lover?"

You really want to compare who the world/media/hollywood/press hates at this point in history????

[Vegasaurus]

19. There is more than enough hate and ugliness to go around

I can remember being told that I was 'Jewing someone down" and that my lips were "too thick and Jewish" to be attractive. And that's the benign part. I have heard anti-semitism towards me and others all my life.

So I am very sorry for your children. I know how racism hurts. But this should help you understand how hurtful those images and words in the Arab press really are.

on edit: And this is not to excuse the "world/media/hollywood/press" for their racism towards Muslims.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

20. All sides have to be mature enough to recognize

that sometimes "our people" do stuff that invites the ugliness to come out.

I wish that Arab commentators would not employ traditional anti-semitic images to criticize Israel. It's not necessary and it weakens the criticism.

Having said that, I don't think it's necessarily anti-semitic to point out the irony in the state of Israel, many of whose citizens are the descendants of ghettos, creating ghettos and then bombing them. I do think one can make that point without using hook nosed caricatures.

[oberliner]

28. Are you suggesting that you do not have a problem with comparing Israel to Nazi Germany?

It seems that you are making a comparison between the way the Nazis treated the Jews with the way the Israelis are treating the Palestinians today.

Is that the source of the irony to which you are referring, vis-a-vis your comment about "ghettos"?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

38. I'm not sure how

it became illegal here to mention those words in the same sentence, but, you don't see the irony in that?

[oberliner]

43. I respectfully disagree with your premise

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion on the matter, but as there is obviously a lot of animosity between Israelis and Palestinians (and Jews and Muslims), rather than fomenting those feelings with Holocaust analogies, can't we try to find areas of mutual understanding? Can't we try to make an effort to see where both sides are coming from and try to bridge the chasm rather than widen it?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

50. I agree with what you're saying, but I think

as with individual humans who are victims of horrible abuse, it is not at all uncommon for that individual to grow up to be an abuser. Unless the cycle of violence is consciously halted, too often it repeats.

I am not saying the occupation is of the scale as the holocaust. Nothing in human history comes close. In no way am I a holocauste minimizer or denier. But I defintely see the irony of children of the ghetto creating one filled with fellow humans whose humanity is denied.

Personally, I cannot reconcile humanity's mandate of "never again" with the 40 year occupation that is built upon the systematic dehumanization of Palestinians.

You can downplay the severity of occupation Oberliner, but I've lived there. I've seen it. It's evil. And it's worth addressing even though it's *not* the same as the evil prepetrated by the Nazis.

[Looking4Light]

51. Actually, you do indeed minimize the "holocauste"

Your statements show ignorance of what happened in the Holocaust. For example, you refer to Israel as having many citizens who are descendants of ghettos. This is not true. Very few people survived the ghettoes.

Obviously, this is not the situation in Gaza or the West Bank.

Um, you also forgot to mention that jews in ghettoes had not elected a government sworn to the destruction of Germany, nor were not shooting missiles at German civilians to achieve that goal.

Other than that...

[ProgressiveMuslim]

52. I'm not going to argue with you when I'm trying to have a conversation with

Oberliner.

Obviously I'm not speaking of literal descendants.

It's unfortunate that it's really impossible to have anything that resembles real dialogue on this board.

In any case Oberliner, I respect the fact that you don't make it personal.

[Looking4Light]

54. Well, I *am* new here so I'm sorry if I...

broke protocol by barging in to a private discussion between you and Oberliner.

Please tell me when I'm allowed to participate.

[msmcghee]

63. You're only getting that treatment because you are new.

As others have explained to this poster many times in the past, when you post a comment in a public forum anyone is allowed to comment on it. That's the purpose of a public forum. If she wishes to make comments that only certain people are allowed to comment on - she is free to send her comments via PM (private message) to whomever she wishes. I think she relishes her "victimhood" to the point where even comments on her opinions in a public forum become an "affront" worthy of public hand-wringing and whining. The best cure IMO is simply pointing out the excess drama and feigned victimhood - and continue with your comments. At least it all adds a little levity to the forum. Welcome to DU I/P. :thumbsup:

[Looking4Light]

68. Thanks! n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

53. Ooh! I want you to accuse me of being ignorant about the Holocaust!

Just a friendly hint. Before joining DU and immediately accusing someone else of ignorance, it helps to make sure that you have all yr ducks lined up and yr facts straight. PM has already said she wasn't talking literally when she said children of the ghettos, though she shouldn't have had to explain something which was so damn obvious to start with...

For example, you refer to Israel as having many citizens who are descendants of ghettos. This is not true. Very few people survived the ghettoes.

I won't accuse you of ignorance of what happened in the Holocaust. Even though it would be very easy to, I find that sort of accusation churlish...

Even though PM never claimed there were many citizens of Israel who were descendents of survivors of the ghettos, many Holocaust survivors did end up moving to Israel, and when it comes to the ghettos, unless you think 90,000 survivors (that's just talking about a ghetto in Budapest) is 'very few', it stands to reason that more than a few would have found their way to Israel after they were liberated...

Um, you also forgot to mention that jews in ghettoes had not elected a government sworn to the destruction of Germany, nor were not shooting missiles at German civilians to achieve that goal.

I didn't realise the residents of Gaza were shooting missiles into Israel. Or isn't there a distinction between civilians and militants when it comes to Palestinians?

[Looking4Light]

55. Thanks for the hint.

If you want to get hung up on numbers, go for it.

The point here is that, to score points in their propaganda war with Israel, Palestinian and pro-Palestinian elements are attempting to draw parallels between the narrative of Jewish suffering in the Holocaust and the narrative of Palestinian suffering in their conflict with Israel. And this attempt is intellectually untenable. Ghettoes set up by the Nazis so that Jews could be more easily rounded up for extermination have no parallel in the IP conflict. NONE. Oh yeah, that extermination thing, that's also missing.

These attempts -- Abbas recently said Israel's raid into Gaza was "worse than the Holocaust" (wtf?!) -- to tie the Palestinian situation with the Holocaust are worse than untenable, they are obscene. People who care about preventing genocide, people with a shred of morality, should reject them.

[Vegasaurus]

56. The fact that a single person buys into the nonsense that there are any parallels

between the Jewish suffering in the Holocaust and the Palestinian suffering is ridiculous.

Jews in ghettos would have loved all that worldwide aid money, all that public sympathy. They would have loved being spared their lives too, all six million of them.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

57. I am not drawing a parallel

Just noting that the nation of Israel is capable of perpetuating evil.

[Looking4Light]

60. You most certainly *did* do just that...

with the exception of "scale".

[ProgressiveMuslim]

61. I believe the 40+ year ongoing effort to dehumanize the people of Palestine

and to deny them the most basichuman rights is evil.

I note with irony, the creation and massacre of ghetto residents.

Label that what you will.

[Vegasaurus]

65. The Palestinians have had many many opportunities

which they continue to squander.

They did not need to live in ghettos, but they have made resistance more important than improving their lives.

Jews in concentration camps or ghettos had no opportunities at all. The starvation alone of Jews in ghettos or concentration camps makes the Palestinians look like they are living like kings. Seen any pictures? They don't look like those portly or well fed palestinians.

Life does suck in the refugee camps, no doubt. But they act like victims, instead of people in control of their own fate, Concentration camp victims were all murdered. 12,000 deaths of Palestinians in 60 years is regretable, without question, but it isn't six million.

The holocaust rhetoric only weakens your argument.

[pelsar]

69. did you miss the

jenin is like Stalengrad parallel a couple of years ago?

or the poison gas israel uses, aids laced candies...

actually abbas is probably correct in his "worse than Holocaust given his thesis:

Abbas earned his Ph.D. in history from Moscow's Oriental College. His doctoral thesis denies that six million Jews died in World War II. In his Arabic-language book "The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism" Abbas rejects "the Zionist fantasy, the fantastic lie that six million Jews were killed. The limited number that did succumb were victims of a joint plot".

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_current_mahmoud_abbas.php

[ProgressiveMuslim]

70. It undercuts your argument when your own politicians use the imagery.

[Looking4Light]

72. No, the arguments stand.

The Holocaust was not merely a word uttered by an otherwise responsible official.

[Violet_Crumble]

81. I figured you'd have no problem when Israelis use Holocaust analogies etc...

One rule for one bunch of folk and a completely different rule for anyone else. Doesn't surprise me in the least...

[pelsar]

77. we've got dumb/human politicians too.....

and personally i really dont care if the nazi= israeli equation is used.......

gaza is not a ghetto, there is no genocide, holocaust etc going on against the Palestinians......Those who like to use the imagery, just have an agenda of dehumanizing the jews and or israelis.....they just reaffirm the need for a the jews to have their own country.

[Vegasaurus]

73. And Abbas is supposedly the best partner for peace Israel has?

Another holocaust denier? What a joke.

I wonder if any of those holocaust deniers would like some pictoral evidence of the event they deny. Or, they could visit any one of a number of concentration camps, talk to survivors (the few that made it out alive).

This denial just makes them look completely ignorant.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

76. I feel the same way about those who deny the Nakba. Boggles the mind. nt

[Looking4Light]

78. Mahmoud Abbas

PA Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas wrote a doctoral thesis on this tripe.
Holocaust denial is not a new phenomenon to the Palestinians; they've been doing it for years.
But I guess if the founding father of my nation started to cooperate with the Nazis in 1933, spent World War II as Adolf Hitler's guest, and actively encouraged genocide against the Jews, I'd try to deny the Holocaust also.
Now the Palestinian leadership uses it to achieve their goals, which seem remarkably similar to Husseini's.

[Violet_Crumble]

83. I'm not hung up on numbers, just pointing out you were wrong...

People who care about preventing genocide, people with a shred of morality, should reject them.

People who do care reject them from whoever they're coming from, whether they're Palestinian or Israeli. You only seem to get hot under the collar when Palestinians do it...

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

88. I didn't realise I was supposed to be arguing anything...

I was just pointing out what I thought was obvious. The settlers in Gaza sure used enough of their own Holocaust analogies when it came to the Disengagement. So do you have a problem with that sort of thing?

[Looking4Light]

91. Yes I do

I supported the Disengagement, even though it meant tragedy for those families.
Their use of the Holocaust to protest their forced removal from Gaza was disgusting also.

[hifalutin]

84. Barbaric Zionist Nazi crimes

Hamas' armed wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades commended the attack. In a statement sent to Ma'an they said "the operation is a natural reaction to the immensity of the barbaric Zionist Nazi crimes which have targeted women, children, mosques and houses. It's also a reaction to the Zionist enemy's holocaust in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank."

"The blessed attack will not be the last response to the massacres by the occupation," the statement added.


http://maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=28186

[Looking4Light]

86. So, let's sum up

what Hamas etc. have been telling us:

1. The invasion was a holocaust, just like the Nazi Holocaust
2. Hamas was victorious
3. Holocausts happen all the time in the West Bank and Gaza
4. The Nazi Holocaust never happened

OhhhhhKaaaaaay

And people wonder why Hamas can't get the Palestinians a state, despite the entire world (including Israel) supporting the two-state solution!

[Vegasaurus]

90. Let's add a few more things Hamas says

All of Israel is on occupied Palestinian land, and will be taken back, by force.

There is no negotiation with Israel.

There is no acknowledgement of Israel.

But give us food, fuel, electricity and aid. Take care of our sick people in your hospitals.

We still have the right to "resist" you violently and through terrorism, even bombing the very electrical plants providing us power, or the ambulances carrying our sick, or the cargo trucks bringing our food and aid.

Stupidity at its finest.

[hifalutin]

94. Talk about

'biting the hand that feeds you'

[pelsar]

62. systematic dehumanization of Palestinians.

i find that rather ironic.....dehumanization would mean the IDF would just kill randomly..trying to kill as many as possible without discrimination.....i think you got the wrong group...try hamas, hizballa, islamic jihad and every other group that attempts to kill/kidnap/blowup the nearest jew possible.....thats a better definition of "dehumanization"

[ProgressiveMuslim]

71. Dehumanization is consistent use of words like "militant" to describe any

male over the age of 13.

Save your breath where I'm concerned. I know the truth.

[pelsar]

74. i think militant is a good word...

its pretty neutral in its definition....it fits a general description of the various "resistant groups..." without getting to specific.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

75. Not when it's applied to anyone with an arabic surname and a penis.

[Looking4Light]

87. Dehumanization

is when a mother teaches her children to be suicide bombers.

[Looking4Light]

49. It's neither illegal...

nor ironic. Likening Israel's treatment of the Palestinians with Nazi Germany's treatment of the Jews is just obscene, and anyone who does so should be deeply ashamed.

[Phx_Dem]

21. Many Jews and Muslims have been victims of hate crimes

myself and my family as well. I won't bore you with the details.

As for the media, the Palestinian narrative is well represented in the MSM these days, as you should know.

The cartoons at the ADL link are extremely anti-semitic, they go far far past legitimate commentary, and I am a little surprised you seem to think they are comparable to the Danish cartoons.

edit--I just read post 20, glad that you clarified your position.

[Looking4Light]

58. Read PM's response again, carefully

There's no condemnation of this blatant anti-Semitism:

It's not necessary and it weakens the criticism.

[rockymountaindem]

26. I've had my life threatened in my own high school for being Jewish

Unfortunately, there's enough bigotry to go around. I'm sorry your kids have to put up with that.

[Dick Dastardly]

27. They need to stand up to those arseholes

and if needed open up a can of whoop ass. Sometimes you have no choice but to break your foot off in someones ass when they are being jerkoffs. At minimum they will stop and give due respect but they may even become friends too.

In second grade a German kid Frank moved to our hood and school some buddies I am still close buddies with(we are like brothers) decided to welcome him with calling him a kraut, Hitler boy, chanting "we won the German war", minor beating up and other various general asshole kid moves by us. A couple of my crew was Jewish so we told Frank that they were going to curcumsize him. This stuff went on for about a week, he cried a couple times, tried avoiding us and ran away when he did see us. This made us even more determined. Finally one day he didnt run and we went into our usual abuse. We then told him he had to fight one of us so to our suprise he coldcocked my buddy who was the biggest of all of us and they went at it for a minute before we broke them up. We were only in 2nd grade so it was mostly a bunch of wrestling but he stood his ground. We told him we wont tease and bother him anymore unless he would like to hang with us in which case he will get teased and ribbed even more as we all do. We still call him Kraut to this day and he like our brother now too. I love that stinkin Kraut

Kids can be cruel but will stop if stood up to.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

29. Actually, my kid has developed brass balls.

She has stood up to kids and even teachers when they spout their racist crap. Those tears were the first time, but she comes from a long line of fighters on both sides ;)

[Dick Dastardly]

30. Good for her. Never take crap from anyone

[ProgressiveMuslim]

32. Never.

My only point in posting that wasn't to generate symathy, but to point out to Vegasaurus that the world of full of anti-arab, anti-Muslim hate, especially in the west. People don't even bother to hide it in polite society. Hell, politicians make it is a political platform.

[Vegasaurus]

33. I don't deny or excuse any racist bullshit

whether it is anti-Arab or Anti-semitic.

I think we agree on this.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[ProgressiveMuslim]

36. I may criticize the state of Israel, but I sure as anything don't make

bigoted statements about Jews.

[Vegasaurus]

37. Good. nt

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

40. Just like Israel's bombs don't discriminate, neither do your comments. nt

[Vegasaurus]

41. Terrorists don't deserve our sympathies

People who blow up innocent people and then celebrate their deaths (and the deaths of those who did the murdering) deserve no praise.

[Violet_Crumble]

42. So anyone who dances or accepts a lolly is a terrorist?

And anyone who doesn't agree is bigoted against Israelis? Yep. glad to see you can make the distinction between terrorists and civilians! :sarcasm:

[Looking4Light]

59. Actually,

Israel has invested a lot of time and money in developing weapons and practices which do discriminate. For example, the Spike missile.

[Violet_Crumble]

45. No, PM doesn't make bigoted statements about Israelis...

How about you quit with the lame accusations for a change?

[Vegasaurus]

47. Welcome to my ignore list nt

[Violet_Crumble]

48. Oh, bum! I'm shattered and don't know how to recover from this blow!

What a strange reaction to being asked not to do something that you find so offensive when aimed at yrself...

[msmcghee]

64. I know we can't recommend posts from I/P . .

. . but is there a "best Sunday morning joke" category? :)

[breakaleg]

66. Link it up then.

[Violet_Crumble]

79. So you think it's funny when someone accuses another poster of bigotry?

So I take it that thread you started a while back complaining about accusations of bigotry against other members and how you were opposed to it happening only applied to accusations against you and you've got no such problem when accusations of bigotry are levelled against anyone who dares to criticise Israel?

[msmcghee]

80. I also find convoluted and twisted logic - in service of . .

. . ideological agendas to be quite amusing. Thanks for the continuous punch lines. :thumbsup:

[Violet_Crumble]

82. I can't stop you cackling at yr own posts n/t

[Vegasaurus]

44. I like how my response was deleted and your crap is still here. nt

Telling someone that they "never miss an opportunity to be ugly" deserves an alert.

[Violet_Crumble]

46. If you have a problem with the rules about accusing others of bigotry, take it up with the mods...

Because acccusing others of bigotry does deserve an alert, which is why yr post was deleted...

[pelsar]

31. good for her....

and parents who taught her

[leftynyc]

93. Let me know when they're rioting

and calling for the death of the cartoonists. Your piss poor attempt at relativism is a joke.

[LeftishBrit]

12. I think all should have freedom of speech...

but others should have freedom to criticize them. Not to threaten their lives! But to criticize.

That goes for the Danish cartoonists too.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

14. Agreed. nt

[bemildred]

22. Yah, let them all talk. Let's see who they really are.

Let's see them defend themselves in public. All this making of taboos and forbidding of speech serves only obscurantists and bigots. The "shouting of fire in a theater" argument has some merit, but it gets pushed to far for the sake of political expediency.

[LeftishBrit]

23. Where I think restrictions *are* needed...

are on reporting lies as actual FACT - and sadly I can think of a number of antisemitic/ Islamophobic/anti-immigrant/racist examples. The British tabloids are great offenders, especially with regard to immigrants.

[bemildred]

24. Boy, you got a big job ahead of you there.

Not a problem that came up recently, either. I mean I agree, sort of, but generally you cannot even get people to agree about what the facts are, so you don't get far with that.

[LeftishBrit]

89. No argument with that; it's a big and long-term problem

And a complicated one - when does interpretation end, and lying begin?

But I have certainly had it to here with tabloids such as the 'Daily Mail'. In the 30s, they serialized the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'. Now, they blame everything they can and some they can't on immigrants to the UK.

I gather that the American equivalents are the right-wing talk-shows.

[azurnoir]

25. Thank you

bigotry and mushrooms grow well under the same conditions-kept in the dark and fertilized with lots of sh*t

[leftynyc]

92. Do you hear anyone here

calling for censorship? Do you hear anyone on the left side of the aisle calling for censorship? Meanwhile, care to comment how the Israeli's aren't hitting the streets, burning flags, rioting because of stupid cartoons?

[LeftishBrit]

7. Depressing.

But it's well known that anti-semitic imagery is still alive and well (or alive and sick) even outside situations of conflict.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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