Hamas, Islamic Jihad Reject Truce With Israel

[bemildred]

ISMAILIA, Egypt, 28 March 2008 — A new round of talks between Egypt and the Palestinian groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad ended yesterday without agreement on striking a truce with Israel.

Both Hamas and Islamic Jihad said they rejected a cease-fire unless Israel stopped all raids in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, ended its Gaza blockade and reopened the coastal territory’s border crossings.

“We stressed our position that calm must be simultaneous, reciprocal and comprehensive,” said Hamas spokesman Ayman Taha.

---

Islamic Jihad leader Khader Habib, whose group has continued to fire rockets at Israel from the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, told Reuters: “The Zionist occupation wanted calm to be limited to Gaza and we say any calm must be comprehensive and reciprocal.” Egypt, at US behest, has been trying to negotiate a cessation of hostilities between Israel and the fighters from the Gaza Strip, territory Hamas seized in June from Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah faction.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=108322&d=28&m=3&y=2008

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. Is insistence upon reciprocity "rejection?" nt

[bemildred]

3. Yeah, but we're used to it by now.

Just ignore the headline, unless it's amusing, and read the story. They usually get the details in there somewhere.

[azurnoir]

2. So Israel wanted to retain the right to

carry out raids at least in the OPT during a cease fire with Gaza? Ah ha, gotta keep em separated.

[Dick Dastardly]

4. Even so, I think they are using a foolish strategy

There is no way the resistance at this time can militarily defeat or even stop in any manner the criminal Israeli regimes attacks, atrocities and massacres. Their futile attacks only embolden the regime and gives it all the exuses it needs to commit its atrocities with minimal criticism. It also makes their people suffer much more. If they unilaterally declare a truce it will be much harder for the regime to commit its massacres and atrocities and not worry about international opinion and actions. The regime will eventually have to stop much of its brutal attacks and massacres. With the attacks minimized and world opinion shifting to support the Palestinians they can use this period twofold. They can use the new pressure on Israel to force a stop to the occupation and a deal. They can also use this period to arm themselves with newer and more modern weapons to defend themselves with and have a better chance of attacking the regime with success to free themselves. e The regime will have 2 choices, either make a real peace or suffer a stronger resistance that can do real damage to them.

[Vegasaurus]

5. So you are of the camp

that thinks that using the "hudna" as a time for the Palestinians to regroup with bigger weapons so they can have an even bigger, more deadly "resistance" is a good idea?

Unless the Palestinians get a nuke from Iran, in which case the middle east becomes glass from mutual destruction, there is no "defeating" Israel, even with "bigger" weapons. Israel could have flattened everything 100 times over by now, and hasn't. But threatened with a nuke, they will respond, no question. Is that the peace you seek?

Dude, you are deluded.

And your opinions are all over the map. You come on this board as a pro-Israeli type, and now call Israel a "criminal regime". You must be smoking something!

[hifalutin]

6. Oh dear,

and I just thought he was being sarcastic since, as you say, previous posts were pro Israel.
I'm either too naive or too old, lol.

[Dick Dastardly]

7. Trying to spin propaganda to my mouth doesn't work

So you are of the camp
that thinks that using the "hudna" as a time for the Palestinians to regroup with bigger weapons so they can have an even bigger, more deadly "resistance" is a good idea?

Unless the Palestinians get a nuke from Iran, in which case the middle east becomes glass from mutual destruction, there is no "defeating" Israel, even with "bigger" weapons. Israel could have flattened everything 100 times over by now, and hasn't. But threatened with a nuke, they will respond, no question. Is that the peace you seek?

Dude, you are deluded.



Where did I say that was the camp I was in
There is no way the resistance at this time can militarily defeat or even stop in any manner the criminal Israeli regimes attacks, atrocities and massacres. Their futile attacks only embolden the Israeli regime and gives it all the excuses it needs to commit its atrocities with minimal criticism.

Because of this Hamas should unilaterally cease resistance but as we all know the Israeli regime will continue to attack shifting world opinion to the Palestinians. This will force the Israeli regime to stop the more brutal attacks and massacres. It will also put pressure on them to stop the illegal occupation and genuinely negotiate a deal. While this is going on Hamas can hedge its bets and prepare for the worst by modernizing its weapons. So we see I did not say what you tried to imply I did. I also didn't mention nukes, that came from your mind, not mine, what kind of deluded mind wishes for nukes as you do, that is despicable.
Your attempt to spin propaganda to me will not work, neither do your ad homs. Try real arguments and the seeking of real peace instead of violence and nuclear destruction.

And your opinions are all over the map. You come on this board as a pro-Israeli type, and now call Israel a "criminal regime". You must be smoking something!


So you are saying that one must express certain pigeon holed opinions that go with certain views whether you are pro Israel or Pro Palestinian. Sorry I believe in a just peace for all, not an Ideology supporting violence as you and others do. Peace is my map not nuking someone

[azurnoir]

8. Military victory ?

There is no possibility of a military victory for Palestinians, under any circumstances, nor at this point is there a strategy that will work to bring peace. If the Palestinians declare a truce it is more likely than not as has been shown recently that Israel will continue raids in to Gaza under the guise of "arresting" militants that have "Israeli" blood on their hands, any civilians unwise enough to get in the way of an Israel bullet will be a "human shield" for Hamas and on and on.
As for world opinion as long as the US is Israel's main supporter, the "regime" as you call it will continue to operate in the same manor as always-give an inch and take a mile, give up the worthless piece of scrub land called Gaza and take the West Bank instead, the whole time constricting the Palestinians to ever smaller and more choked off area's notice that the what the Palestinians do in Gaza is used as an excuse to take and hold land on the WB but when Israel assassinates militants on the WB and the reaction comes from Gaza then they are separate entities.



OT for a split second I took your sig line as being the lyrics to a King Crimson song called "The Great Deceiver" then I noticed your avatar

[Shaktimaan]

9. I just don't get it.

How do you reconcile saying the same thing over and over again, regardless of whether or not it is true? For real, how, or why do you keep doing this weird thing?

the whole time constricting the Palestinians to ever smaller and more choked off area's

Hasn't Israel been doing the opposite for the past 15 years or so? Gradually giving Palestinians more and more land that they have autonomy over. I keep hearing "Israel's just taking more and more land in the west bank" no matter what it is that Israel actually does. Every time Israel actually does something positive that benefits Palestinians I am told that it is either to distract us from something worse that they are doing, or that it was done just so that Israel can use it as an excuse to retaliate when Palestine failed to utilize it non-violently. Hamas has proudly used their own civilians as human shields, admittedly doing it, taking responsibility for it on the news, and yet I see the term used as though it were nothing but propaganda dreamed up by Israeli spin doctors.

Do you honestly think that if Israel pulled out of more of the west bank that it would have any kind of benefit for Israel or do you think that the increased autonomy would (again) be used opportunistically to attack Israel?

At what point do the Palestinians have to make any kind of effort towards the peace process, in your opinion? When, (what concession that Israel makes will be the magic one), does it become less than acceptable for terrorists to continue attacking Israeli civilians?

Let me make a quick list of the things Israel HAS tried at various points in time thus far (over the past 15 years) to advance the peace process and you can maybe explain what else needs to be done before we can expect an iota of something similar from the Palestinian camp. Ok?

Closed all settlements in Gaza and several in the WB.
Gave full autonomy over all of Gaza and full or partial over nearly half of the WB. (covering 99% of Palestinians living in the OPT)
Closed checkpoints over almost all of the WB.
Opened the OPT up to economic development packages sparking international investment and aid donation all over the OPT.
Gave them an interim government and elections.
Let that government administrate over all of Gaza and almost half of the West Bank (complete with a newly armed police force.)
Agreed to a two state solution and entered in talks to give them their own state.
Agreed to and upheld a cease fire despite being attacked daily from Gaza.
Allowed Gaza control over their border with Egypt.
Froze all settlement building and expansion.

There's more, but you get the idea, right? Now, I know that most of these weren't permanent, and I know that things like the wall and the siege have occurred since, but I thought we'd focus on just the positive things that both sides have actually done. So, in that same time period what have the Palestinians done to help the peace process?

[Vegasaurus]

10. The Palestinians

who have no leverage, believe, apparently, that they need to do nothing at all to advance the peace process.

They seem to believe that nonstop terror, rockets, suicide bombings, smugglings and anti-semitic rhetoric is the way to go.

All it has done is made their lives more miserable. What stupid choices.

[breakaleg]

11. "Closed checkpoints over almost all of the WB." Care to back that one up?

[azurnoir]

12. Wow

Closed all settlements in Gaza and several in the WB.

The number of settlements on the West Bank has been increasing steadily, with no sign of let up. This fact has been posted on so many times that I am surprised you keep catapulting it.

Gave full autonomy over all of Gaza and full or partial over nearly half of the WB. (covering 99% of Palestinians living in the OPT)

Autonomy in Gaza equates to a prison by which almost nothing gets in and out without Israels OK and expansion.

Closed checkpoints over almost all of the WB.

LOL, you can do better

Opened the OPT up to economic development packages sparking international investment and aid donation all over the OPT.

only to claim that illegal construction, when a project is near completion

Gave them an interim government and elections.

And if Israel doesn't agree with the results? See Gaza

Let that government administrate over all of Gaza and almost half of the West Bank (complete with a newly armed police force.)

A recent report from the US military advisor in the WB says that Israel is interferring with ability of Palestinian police to do their jobs to the point of rendering them almost useless,

Agreed to a two state solution and entered in talks to give them their own state.

When something more smiling and nodding largely for the US public is accomplished let me know

Agreed to and upheld a cease fire despite being attacked daily from Gaza.

Are you talking about the 2006 withdrawal or more recently I guess the "keep 'em separated" principle is at work here.

Allowed Gaza control over their border with Egypt.

So Israel really allows two separate sovereign entities to control their mutual border, that's progress

Froze all settlement building and expansion.

except for where Israel desires settlements, Har Homa for instance