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Rice: U.S. explicitly warned Carter not to meet with Hamas

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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:16 AM
Original message
Rice: U.S. explicitly warned Carter not to meet with Hamas
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Tuesday the Bush administration explicitly warned former U.S. President Jimmy Carter against meeting with members of Hamas, the Palestinian faction that controls the Gaza Strip and which is regarded by the U.S. as a terror group.

Rice told reporters that the U.S. thought the visit could confuse the message that the U.S. will not deal with Hamas.
"I just don't want there to be any confusion," Rice said. "The United States is not going to deal with Hamas and we had certainly told President Carter that we did not think meeting with Hamas was going to help further a political settlement between Israel and the Palestinians."

n an interview with the U.S.' National Public Radio, Carter said the State Department did not warn him off the trip. A State Department spokesman in Washington took issue with that on Monday, and Rice was more blunt in her account Tuesday.


Haaretz
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Tsk, it's almost as though Jimmy just ignored the Bushites.
Why would he do that?
:rofl:
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Brushing off his shoulders...
he just keeps doing what's right, letting them call him names and admonishing him, he doesn't care about the Bushites -- only about peace and what's right. I hope history gets it right about Carter.

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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. and he announced a mini-break-through
with Hamas making a mini-concession. Of course, Bush and Condi won't talk to anyone, so the idea that negotiations could work make no sense in their bubble.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Jimmy's accomplishments speak for themselves.
All the venomous hot air aimed his way will have no effect on the judgement of history. History won't think much of the Bushites either.
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keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. So who is lying Carter or the State Department?
Carter said the State Department did not warn him off the trip
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Is that a trick question?
Who lies to us every day of the week?
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Perfect.
great rhetorical question.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Jimmy Carter is a much, MUCH more legitimate rep of the American people than
Condi Rice or Bush, or anybody they appoint. They stole two elections. They represent 28% of the people (the brain dead--and the war profiteers).

Most people want peace. Indeed--something not very many of us know--56% of the American people opposed the Iraq War from the beginning (Feb. '03, NYT poll; other polls 54-55%)--a significant anti-war majority that has grown into a whopping, epochal anti-war majority of 70%.

Carter is aware of this. He founded the Carter Center. He knows about stolen elections. And he sees what's happening here--rebellion! So he's out there laying the ground work for peace (which has to start with Israel/Palestine, where most people ALSO want peace), on behalf of all of us. Such a brave and good man--such an incredible contrast to the mass murderers and torturers, and greedbags and master thieves, who have been illegitimately ruling over us during this fascist nightmare.

And whether he succeeds or not, in getting peace talks started--and whether WE succeed or not, in restoring our democracy--he is setting a wonderful example of what real leadership is, and we, too, in all our public activism--on election fraud and election reform, on the war, and on so many critical issues, and in so many ways--are setting an example for others in our country and for our children, of what good citizens do in a democracy. It may be a longer and more difficult job than many would like to face, to restore democracy here, to curtail the global corporate predators and war profiteers who are oppressing us and others, and to achieve world peace. But you've got to start somewhere. That could be Jimmy Carter's motto--in all the disputes that he has brokered, and all the democratic institutions that he has helped develop around the world. You've got to start somewhere.
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I couldn't agree more
On re-reading your post I don't quite know what else can be added without repeating the same points, but I will mention a few passing thoughts:

1_ - It is really striking to me the way this Al-Qaeda #2 guys is also out there denouncing Hamas for going forward with peace talks with Carter. So you have wing-nut psychopath extremists on both sides (Rice/State Dept on one side, Al-Qaeda on the other) criticizing the events taking place. That tells me something - those who push for endless war are getting nervous.

2) I have said it about a month ago, that I sense something different in the air recently, I don't know what it is, and I know cynics will feast on words like that, but IMO there is something good brewing up and I can't explain exactly why or how I get that sense, but I just do and I'm sticking to it. So now we have ex-President of the United States, Jimmy Carter, essentially forcing all these issues on the table. All these issues and long held assumptions being challenged, and asking us to think twice about this whole ludicrous policy of extending the I/P conflict indefinitely.

My only question to Jimmy at the moment is - where have you been? We need real peacemakers like you out there making things happen and we needed you like yesterday! But not to criticize what is taking place now either. As you say, Peace Patriot:

You've got to start somewhere


:applaud:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I agree that there are wheels with wheels right now in our Byzantine empire.
Both good and bad. Probably Carter was waiting for certain gears to be set in motion, as to ousting Bush-Cheney peacefully, and securing the realm. Carter is a real solid democrat with a small d. (His work in South America on transparent elections over the last decade has been awesome. A mighty transformation is under way there, toward social justice, peace and cooperation, and one of the most important contributors to it has been honest elections.) But he is not stupid. He knows how perilous our situation is. People have asked, why doesn't the Carter Center monitor OUR elections? But it's not that easy. We're talking about overturning an entrenched fascist coup in the most powerful and dangerous country on earth, by people who are the most powerful and dangerous cabal the world has ever seen. You don't start messing with them without significant backing--and without a significant stirring among the people toward taking their country back. He's seeing that now, with the Obama campaign. Obama's supporters are the best thing that has happened in this country in a very long time--an activated citizenry, a palpable rebellion against the way things are. He can work with that. What he can't work with is a supine citizenry--flattened, demoralized, disempowered--combined with a political establishment that has been cowed by spying and blackmail, and is severely corroded by corruption and complicity in war crimes. Things are changing from the bottom up, mostly--the best way they COULD change.

I think--and have thought for a long time--that there is also something happening in the military, in the intelligence community, and among some politicians and possibly also some business people and corporate types. (War becomes very bad for business, after a certain point.) A sense of alarm seemed to shoot through our political establishment, at a certain point. I think it maybe came to a head with Rumsfeld's resignation in Dec '06, but started earlier, possibly during Katrina, when I had the distinct impression that the Bush White House was cracking to pieces, behind the scenes. And, since around the time of Rumsfeld's resignation, it's been one revelation after another, of worse and worse crimes. Rumsfeld's resignation occurred days after the '06 Congressional elections--and Pelosi's weird "impeachment is off the table" announcement. Although the elections didn't give us an anti-war Congress, they certainly indicated that that's what the people WANTED. I think that something occurred at that point, with regard to the political establishment's gaging of the tolerances of the American people; they understood that attacking Iran was not going to go down well--might actually cause a revolution--and they traded no impeachment for no attack on Iran (with Bush-Cheney), and/or no impeachment if they'll just go away (and not declare martial law and suspend elections, etc.).

Some of these very same people--who may have been bargaining with Bush-Cheney--had also been colluding with them on stolen elections (the "trade secret" code voting machines, etc.), war, and fascist policy, but Bush-Cheney had gone too far. Some of the bargainers were good guys. Some of them are not. But there was a consensus that Bush-Cheney have to go--and given their control of the levers of power, and complete lack of conscience, that is a tricky business, indeed.

It's interesting what was happening in South America simultaneously--which I was watching very closely. In summary, it was a rebellion of ALL Latin American leaders--left AND right--against Bushite interference in Venezuela. There was a coup/assassination plot against Chavez that year, hatched in Colombia, which of course has been the recipient of $5.5 BILLION in Bushite military aid, and is a cauldron of corruption, like Bush-Washington DC. The Latin America leaders had had it, and even the rightwing president of Mexico publicly lectured Bush--on his visit there in spring '06--on the SOVEREIGNTY of Latin American countries, mentioning Venezuela as the example. This--and the rest of the story--of course went completely unreported here. I picked up on it, cuz I was so interested in the big shift to the left in South America.

www.BoRev.net has a hilarious map of South America, which says it all. Unknown to most of us, half the hemisphere has gone democratic. And, from now on--although there are still some vestiges of U.S. colonial rule (mostly in Central America)--we're going to be dealing with EQUALS, and with countries who, if they don't like Exxon Mobil's attitude, KICK THEM OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY.

Just yesterday, a leftist former bishop overturned 60 years of fascist rule in Paraguay, and was elected president on a platform of social justice. The list of leftist and center-left countries is now as long as your arm. And even the remaining rightwing Latin American countries (with the exception of Colombia) are benefiting from the strong leftist pull of leaders like Chavez in Venezuela, Morales in Bolivia, and Correa in Ecuador. There is a new sense of INDEPENDENCE from the U.S., along with a new sense of cooperation among countries that have suffered such exploitation and bullying by the U.S. for so long. The strongest leftists--the Bolivarians--are pushing for a South American Common Market.

The times they are a-changin'. And if the U.S. government doesn't smarten up, we're going to become a "banana republic" backwater.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Hamas is also pushing for endless war
they refuse to legitimize Israel, and have not softened their stance one iota.

What makes you think this is any change at all?

Read today's rhetoric. It's the same as yesterday's the day before's, and a decade ago's.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yes
It does appear that nothing was accomplished but more bad PR for Murka, and Israel, and good PR for Hamas.

Would have been great if something could have been accomplished but that was not to be it seems.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
8. If the State Dept "warned" Mr Carter
about talking to Hamas, why did they wait a week to say anything?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. It's the new talking point.
Jimmy didn't bring peace in a few days so he "failed". I guess peace is just impossible, so we should all just forget about it until Bush needs another photo op.
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