Civil rights group claim Israeli occupation is "reminiscent of apartheid"

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Israel's leading civil rights organisation yesterday broke a taboo by describing Israeli policies in the occupied West Bank as being “reminiscent of apartheid” in South Africa.

Alleging an intensification of human rights abuses against Palestinians, the respected Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) made the comparison in an annual report that described the existence of separate legal, planning and transportation systems for Jewish settlers and Palestinians in the West Bank.

“Israel has built a modern arterial road system in the West Bank intended in fact only for use by Israeli traffic, whereas the Palestinians are forced to travel for the most part on twisting and dangerous roads,” the report said. While Israel facilitates the expansion of Jewish settlements, it restricts the growth of Palestinian towns, the report added. “This state of affairs in which all the services, budgets and the access to natural resources are granted along discriminatory and separatist lines according to ethnic-national criteria is a blatant violation of the principle of equality and is in many ways reminiscent of the Apartheid regime in South Africa.” The report said. Mark Regev, spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, responded that “the whole comparison is inaccurate and offensive.”

<snip>

"ACRI wrote that while South Africa had been a case of a “racist separation criterion” the one applied in the occupied terirories is “ethnic-national.”

The group decided to drop its previous reluctance to use the South Africa comparison, often invoked by those pressing for an international boycott of Israel, because “things are getting worse rather than better” according to spokeswoman Melanie Takefman.

In particular, Ms. Takefman cited what ACRI views as the Israeli supreme court's endorsement of the idea of separate road systems for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank. Last March, the court ignored an ACRI petition that it rule on the legality of the continued barring of Palestinians from Highway 443, an alternate route between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv that slices through expropriated Palestinian West Bank land. To justify the expropriations, the state had said during the 1990's the road would be for Palestinian benefit. But the road is now entirely an Israeli commuter route, with Palestinian villagers who formerly used it to access health, education and jobs in Ramallah barred since 2002 when it was closed to them after attacks on Israeli motorists. Instead, authorities are building a separate road for Palestinians. “The judges's turning a blind eye and approving a separate road system was a very depressing and ominous sign,” Ms. Takefman said."

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[Violet_Crumble]

1. Whoa, now you've done it!

I think saying it's *reminiscent of apartheid* is a very apt way to describe it...

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Violet_Crumble]

3. No, you can't make that comparison...and you shouldn't

But I just learnt in another thread from someone trying to sneak around their urge to compare Arabs to Nazis that the way to do it is say: 'That's the worst Ghetto since the Warsaw Ghetto!' ;)

[Asgaya Dihi]

5. Looks similar to me

A whole population walled in, resources all on one side of the border and not on the other, food used as a weapon, and the http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1043795.html">recent riots and past military incursions all lend some comparison to them.

The same? Of course not, but the apartheid comparison isn't the "same" either. Just a similar event in ways. For one thing this has gone on a lot longer which leaves more room for a history of conflict. Contrary to what the other person who responded claimed though there WAS the Warsaw uprising which might again be comparable in ways. No, not the same, but similar. A people without many resources resisting. Same as the French resistance did, and others. The difference between terrorism and freedom fighter too often lies in not much more than which side we have more sympathy for. And no, that doesn't excuse car bombs, no more than it excuses the riots and occasional killings on the part of the Israelis such as in the article above. Looking at both sides instead of just ones helps to understand it some though. Weak people eventually strike out however they can, anyone might when they no longer feel they have anything left to lose.

I don't care what anyone else does or what you assume anyones urges to be. If you wonder at what *I* do I've a long posting history to check. If you want to assume because you think someone *else* does something that's nothing that in any way concerns me.

[cali]

8. lol. desperate stretch by someone justifying their

hate. There is only one reason why someone with any familiarity of the Warsaw Ghetto would attempt to make this fallacious comparison: Hate.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[Vegasaurus]

13. "If America Knew"

a good hate site, full of nonsense and conspiracy theories.

Do you also think Bush caused 9/11 and no Arabs were involved?

Or even that Cheney was behind the Mumbai massacres?

It's amazing what people will believe.

[Asgaya Dihi]

15. You've got two ways to go here

If you have reason to think that then sourcing it would be nice. The trend of assumption and accusation in the thread so far is wearing a bit thin. Do you think the US was right on Iraq? Right on the accusations and threats against Iran so far? Right in our faith in everything from the drug war to the trust we put in our greed based economic system? Then why in the world are you so sure we're getting all the info we need from the press on this issue?

You're right, it's amazing what people will believe. They've let you down again and again and again and again but this time we're sure they must be right, it seems a matter of faith to some and they are shocked and offended when others don't share that faith. Personally I think we've got more reason to doubt than trust and I don't automatically discount outside info anymore.

Don't automatically trust it either though. If you have other info I'd be glad to see it but so far it seems to me that for lack of anything solid to offer some would rather just assume and fling accusations they aren't willing or able to back up. Why fling shit when it could be a discussion instead?

[Asgaya Dihi]

17. Hell

I don't have time to wait so I did a quick web search and will critique them myself ;) Have things to do today.

A fairly detailed criticism of them can be found http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/ifamericansknew.html">here, though it's nothing that I wouldn't expect. Opinionated people who are no doubt controversial and accused by their critics of doing much the same as they accuse those same critics of doing. Sounds a lot like US politics, both sides accuse each other of the same things and in some cases even do it.

But, then again we also run into things like http://www.gradethenews.org/pages/middleeast.htm">this which is an article from grade the news, a media research project based at San Jose State University and affiliated with Stanford University's Graduate Program in Journalism, where they were surprised by some of those same stats so checked and found essentially the same results.

So, I see no problem with them in the context I first mentioned them, as a view of things from the other side. No more, no less, as far as I know there is no single site out there that represents any "truth". Just differing views we have to try to take into account if we want to find something near a truth for ourselves.

It's been... interesting... ;)

Later.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[cali]

10. What a sweet and gentle rebuke.

and you managed to work in a slam against a pro-Israel poster. Your tone toward the pro-Palestinian poster- or more accurately in this case, the anti-Israel, poster- is entirely different than the tone you use with anyone you perceive as pro-Israeli. And yes, yes. I know you like to pretent that you're even handed.

[Violet_Crumble]

12. Sorry, I don't screech and abuse people like you do...

I got my point across, which is what I wanted to do. And this 'slam' you speak of is about what someone said, not about them. Learn the difference and stop making everything so personal. btw, where were you when that pro-Israel poster yr now defending was in another thread trying their hardest to compare Arabs to Nazis? Nowhere. Don't talk to me about even handedness when yr vitriol in the form of personal attacks is always aimed at pro-Palestinian posters...


on edit: Anyone else spotted the Cali form of even-handedness at work? It's entertaining to watch. If it's one of the few pro-Israeli posters who cop it, screech abuse once, then don't return to any replies. If it's one of most 'pro-Palestinian' posters here, screech abuse, and keep on returning to the replies to screech even more abuse. Cali, evenhandedness when it comes to this conflict has everything to do with people's stances on the conflict, not whether or not they're sufficiently abusive for yr liking to those they disagree with. It speaks volumes that you have a go at me for not being abusive when I'm actually disagreeing with the poster I was replying to. Yr problem is and always has been that you make things personal and attack people, and this behaviour isn't confined to the I/P forum, coz you've got a well-earned reputation for it across DU. Why don't you drop the nasty attitude and just get down to discussing the conflict with people in a rational and civil manner?

[Vegasaurus]

14. Violet, you are one of the most abusive people on this forum

I find it interesting that you think YOU have rational discussions, or in any way even-handed.

Certainly not with anyone who cares about Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Veggie, yr always abusive when you post to me so knock it off...

If you bothered reading many of the threads here, you'd see I do have rational discussions with quite a few people I don't see eye to eye with. Will you be needing a list? Or do you think folk like eyl, leftishbrit, pelsar, and oberliner don't care about Israel?

btw, Cali was the one carrying on about me being even-handed, so take it up with her....

[azurnoir]

20. Madam you yourself a few days ago

posted one of the ugliest posts I have ever seen on this board aimed at one of the only, if not the only Muslim poster here and then when challenged pretended to "not understand" .
Then accuse VC among others as posting "slams against Pro-Israeli" posters, one who you your self have slammed as you put it in even stronger language or and anti Israel or anti Occupation, there is a difference

As I have read somewhere "will the real Cali please stand up" and just when I had started thinking you were the American version of LB I was indeed wrong

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[ProgressiveMuslim]

6. Is your deadly neighbor metaphor describing Israel or the Palestinians?

Because the killing has been pretty lopsided, with a lot more dead Arabs than Israelis.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. Aquart's post was a real Archie Bunker moment n/t

[cali]

9. And you could say the same about your post

Sadistic and inaccurate. You're completeley blaming the Gazans for their situation. The Israelis are are largely responsible for what's happening in Gaza. No, it's not the Warsaw Ghetto, but it's bloody awful, and blaming the Gazan population at large, is flat out wrong.

[subsuelo]

18. Systematic oppression and domination of the native population is rightly called Apartheid

Why some taboo exists against calling it Apartheid is beyond reason (at least, to decent people with a sense of humanity).

[azurnoir]

21. Acouple of days ago a ProIsraeli poster

used the word apartheid unimpeded, used both to try to accuse Arab countries and governmets in a broad way and used it to describe Israel so I guess that makes it OK now, any cmplaint is a double standard.