The Myth of Disengagement

[DogPoundPup]

In 2004, former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced to the world his plan to unilaterally ‘disengage’ from the 37 year occupation of the Gaza Strip.

According to Sharon, protecting the small number of Israeli settlers within one of the world’s most densely populated and hostile environments was becoming far more trouble than it was worth.

Underneath this seemingly pragmatic discourse though was the growing belief/fear inside of Israel over the explosion of the ‘demographic bomb’ in historical Palestine – in which Palestinians would soon outnumber their Jewish counterparts leading to charges of Apartheid. By ‘disengaging’ or supposedly ‘de-occupying’ the Gaza Strip, Israel was able to cleanly shave off nearly 1.4 million Palestinians from under its perceived control.

snip~
Israel’s claim to have withdrawn from Gaza has proven to be nothing more than a myth and one would only have to ask the simplest of questions to see through the lie:

If the disengagement from Gaza was wholeheartedly supported by Palestinians, then why would the decision have to be made unilaterally by the Israelis, rather than through negotiations which would ensure the durability of any such agreement?

much more: http://ramallahonline.com/content/2881-the-myth-of-disengagement

[GoesTo11]

1. Busy posting morning, huh?

[bemildred]

2. That's one thing, the Israeli governent specifically refused to negotiate the Gaza withdrawal.

If I remember correctly, insisted that it was a unilateral move, no expectations given or accepted.

Sharon had originally dubbed his unilateral disengagement plan, the "separation plan" or Tokhnit HaHafrada before realizing that, "separation sounded bad, particularly in English, because it evoked apartheid."<4>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel's_unilateral_disengagement_plan

[pelsar]

3. it was actually negotiated...

just not with any bells and flags..during the withdrawl not a single mortar, bullet, kassam was shot even though there were thousands of israelis congregated together...not to mention their movement was coordinated so they there would be no surprises and of course the razing of the settlements was agreed upon as the best way to handle them.

outside of that, to pretend that "lack of public negotiation" is the reason gaza has turned out to be such a failure is merely an excuse. Flags and ceremonies wouldnt have made a difference to hamas as they planned their take over...nor would it have stopped the kassam shooters....

[bemildred]

4. It wasn't my name for it.

The fact that the Palestinians let them go in peace is notable though.

I pretended nothing, enjoy beating your straw man.

[pelsar]

5. i always find simplistic articles designed more for the cheerleaders than for discussion...

i couldnt find a single reference to the 6,000+ kassams and mortars shot at israelis from very day after israel left......its not just the writer its the readers that believe such simplistic garbage that never ceases to amaze me....it good for the 3rd graders of course and those deep within their religion, which ever it maybe, but hardly worth the bits and bytes for someone whos been following the events since the pullout.

[DogPoundPup]

6. the numbers of home-made Qassam rockets launched at Israel are diligently counted

and quoted, but how many sophisticated munitions have Israel’s F-16s, helicopter gunships, armed drones, tanks, occupation troops and navy patrol boats fired into the crowded humanity that packs the Gaza Strip? We are never told the total.

Why should we believe the claim that the siege of Gaza is about rockets “raining down” on Israel? Palestinians in the West Bank don't fire rockets yet the Israelis are still in occupation there after 40 years, still stealing their land and water, and now dumping their toxic waste there.

[oberliner]

7. The West Bank ought to form the basis of a completely autonomous state

We've got to help those who support the two-state solution make this dream a reality.

[azurnoir]

10. what about Gaza? n/t

[oberliner]

11. Gaza ought to be part of that independent Palestinian state as well

Hopefully there will be a reconciliation at some point in the near future and a unified voice will be able to speak for both the West Bank and Gazan Palestinians.

[pelsar]

8. its called cause and affect...

there is however a very important aspect to it....history.....when israel left gaza and kassams started (day one), that was probably the stupidest thing that gazans could possibly think of to do.

despite those daily attempts to kill israelis all the gazans got were warnings: sonic booms, artillery shells, limited assassinations etc (i doubt you would like to remember the limited responses...it would ruin your whole thesis of the evil israelis.....)....and the kassams kept coming....even closing down the borders didnt seem to help: shoot kassams borders closed, dont shoot, borders open.....and after 8 years they got themselves invaded.

all they had to do is NOT try to kill israelis.....


and for reasons that are not clear to me they couldnt "help themselves" why do you think the westbank would be any different?

[azurnoir]

9. So is your stance Israel couldn't help itself?

Israel could not help a air blockade Israel could not help a sea blockade, Israel could not help restricting commerce, Israel could not help intermittent invasions, Israel could not help it self is that what your saying it seems so

cause and effect well here's one effect

Solana softens policy towards Hamas

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233050196491&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[pelsar]

12. israel tried different things...

are you going to try to show that whatever israel did, the response wasnt the same: mortars and kassams?

i sure would like to see it....


yes in fact israel does have a responsibility to keep its citizens safe...and if possible remove the threat.
____

i cant recall a single time you ever wrote what would be your suggestions to israel to stop the kassams...think of its as a challange:

you mentioned you dont run away from such challanges so here is your chance, and dont forget the history since lsrael left gaza, from day ONE the kassams started flying into israel.....

and a footnote: if you believe israel shouldnt respond to the kassams, as least write it out clearly, and if you think israel should, at least have the courage to be specific and within the limitations of the technology today-keep it real.

[Idealism]

13. Pelsar, you act as if there was no history prior to Qassams

like Palestinians haven't been living with occupation for decades upon decades, or that Israel hasn't assassinated Palestinian leaders since the 1970s. The rockets started in 2001. This violence has been going on long before that. Both sides hold grudges, some will never let go old disputes. There is a saying I once heard from an Israeli friend who told me it was popular among the population in Sderot: "I hate the Palestinians/Israeli's, they killed my uncle's cousin's wife's brother a century ago"

[pelsar]

14. and your missing all talk pre gaza:

that the core solution was "land for peace"...that israel as the stronger one had to make a "dramatic move".....that it was up to israel to do something to change the cycle of violence

how many zillions of words were written with those as the theme?

well israel did exactly that: a clear cut, non fuzzy move: destroyed all the settlements in gaza, left gaza: a dramatic move, changed the cycle, gave the Palestinians land...(spare me the "it wasnt perfect" because of a,b c....of course if wasnt perfect-its never going to be)

and in return received missiles and mortars from the very next day.
_______

the grudges will exist for next thousands of years (americas civil war divide in fact still exists) but that does not negate the need for the dramatic move and the equal "dramatic" response.....israel didnt get that, in fact israel only received more of the same......

[Idealism]

15. You know very well they sealed Gaza off the day of the disengagement plan

You also know that since the disengagement plan, the illegal settlements in the West Bank have grown to take over 8% past the Green line. The settler population has doubled since Sharron's "dramatic move."

They didn't impose the total blockade, but they didn't let anyone in or out. It became a prison on the same day they evicted the Israeli settlers. They claimed it was for security when moving the Israelis out, but they never rescinded that order, even after the settlers were long gone.

If you think that Sharron left Gaza as an autonomous land, as even a respectable entity, then you are mistaken. It is doomed to be an Israeli protectorate, because they will never let Palestinians have a military or free range in their own territory. You know this, so why do you purposefully deflect?