The U.S. and Israel

[Ken Burch]

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/The-US-and-Israel

"Behind Israel stands the richest and most powerful nation on earth. Without material support from the US, the onslaught on Gaza would not be possible, writes Mike Marqusee"

[cali]

1. sadly, not true.

Do take a look at all the other places on earth where populations suffer even worse onslaughts.

[Ken Burch]

2. I'm not sure what you're saying

Clearly, we have established that

1)The rockets weren't fired for no reason(not that the rockets were the tactic I'd have chosen, but I'm a white person in a non-Occupation zone so I'm not sure I or anyone like me has the right to judge what a people fighting an occupation do as a resistance tactics;

2)The U.S. has pretty much given unquestioning material support to everything the Israeli government and military have done to Palestinians in general and Gazans in particular;

3)Operation Cast Lead was never the only option the Israeli government had. There was always the possibility of doing the rational thing and accepting that they needed to negotiate with Hamas. This was not a war for Israel's survival(none of them have been, really).

Can you actually defend what's been done here? And do you really honestly think that the Israelis have any right to claim to be the victims in this dispute?

You can't really be saying what's been done to Gaza is no big deal, can you?

Why would any decent person take the Israeli military's side in this? They're the occupiers and the oppressors. If there'd been no rockets, they'd still have besieged Gaza, because, the Israeli political and military establishment still doesn't accept that there has to BE a Palestinian state. Those guys still think that it's possible to have peace through victory(even though any sane person knows this dispute can't be ended through "winning").

Why do you take the right-wing establishment view on I/P issues?

[cali]

3. If you aren't sure what I'm saying

than you should try and refrain from jumping to conclusions, friend. All I was saying is that I believe Israel would oppress the Palestinians and perpetrate military onslaughts against them even without the support of the U.S.

And it's ridiculous to accuse me of having right wing views on Israel. And ignorant of what I've written here. Jumping to such conclusions demonstrates a sad paucity of intellectual honesty on your part. I've said many times here that the Cast Lead operation was heinous and a war crime. Just how, Ken, is that a right wing establishment position, dear? I've said the chief obstacle to peace is the theft of Palestinian land via the Settlements. Just how is that a right wing establishment view>? I believe that the U.S. should cut military support for Israel. Another right wing establishment view?

Feel free to check the archives here for those comments. And feel free to apologize for completely making up, out of whole cloth, my positions on these issues.

[Ken Burch]

4. I was going on the "other people have it worse" thing you seemed to be saying

I didn't mean to make up a position you weren't holding.

If that wasn't what you meant, I do apologize.

If you'd said "I don't think this is happening because of the U.S.", I'd have understood what you were saying.

OK?