Negotiators return from Cairo without Schalit deal

[Fozzledick]

By KHALED ABU TOAMEH AND TOVAH LAZAROFF

Hopes for a breakthrough that would lead to the release of captive soldier Gilad Schalit were dashed Monday night when the Prime Minister's Office released a statement saying that Hamas had hardened its position.

The statement was issued upon the return of Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) head Yuval Diskin and senior negotiator Ofer Dekel from Cairo Monday night after two days of marathon Egyptian-mediated talks toward concluding a prisoner swap.

Hamas has hardened its position, gone back on understandings that had been reached in the past year and raised extreme demands in spite of the attempts to advance the negotiations, the Prime Minister's Office said. It added that Hamas had taken this position despite generous offers that were raised in the latest round of talks.

A Hamas legislator in the Gaza Strip, however, said, "We are closer than ever to reaching a prisoner exchange agreement with Israel. The ball is now in Israel's court."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1237114844755&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

As if Hamas ever had any intention of making a deal...:eyes:

[Fozzledick]

1. Shalit talks stall as Hamas toughens stance

By Barak Ravid, Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondents

The indirect talks between Israel and Hamas in Cairo have failed to achieve a breakthrough that would free captured soldier Gilad Shalit in return for the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.

At a special meeting of the cabinet Tuesday, outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Olmert will say that "Israel has drawn back its red lines as far as possible, but Hamas foiled the negotiations. Under these conditions it is not possible to reach an agreement."

After two days of intense indirect negotiations, Olmert's special envoy on the prisoner exchange, Ofer Dekel, and Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin returned from Egypt Monday night. At a briefing for Olmert and his advisers, the two blamed Hamas for what they called its unwillingness to show flexibility to reach an agreement.

Dekel and Diskin told Olmert that Hamas had actually toughened its stance and returned to positions it had held in the negotiations a year ago.

Sources said Monday that at a certain point Diskin and Dekel sent over the final Israeli offer. When the Egyptian officials returned with the Hamas offer the two Israelis were shocked to realize that the Islamist group had posed new demands.

"They raised demands of someone who did not wish for a solution," a source said the two men had told Olmert. "The demands came out of nowhere and there was a huge discrepancy between that and things that had been discussed in the past."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1071643.html

[Idealism]

2. "there was a huge discrepancy between that and things that had been discussed in the past."

I wonder if this is the truth politicians wanted to hear, or what MI truly believes. Seems odd, either way.

[pelsar]

16. some clarification....

as the israelis news (TV/radio/TV) have been going almost 24hours a day for the last 2 weeks on this:

some points:

Hamas isnt really "paying" anything for keeping shalit, the borders are open (not for everything, but food etc) and they have their tunnels, so a "people" revolt doesnt seem to be a problem. (no real cost to hamas)

The percentages are high of the various jihadnikim returning to the profession (many are highly skilled at their professions), as opposed to opening a fallaful stand on the corner, so the deal is not just shalit for x number of Palestinians its shalit for x number of future dead israelis.

Its also just further making the point that israeli bodies (dead or alive) are good bargaining chips....and no doubt will serve its use in the future. There was at least one incident in the last gaza war, where an IDF soldier who was wounded (maybe dead) but in order to keep his body from being kidnapped the surrounding houses and area were blown up in the "extreme" to keep it from happening.

[bemildred]

3. Israel says Gaza blockade goes on until soldier freed

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel will not ease its blockade of the Gaza Strip until captured soldier Gilad Shalit is freed by the enclave's Hamas Islamist rulers, an Israeli political source said on Tuesday after talks with Hamas stalled.

"The crossings ... are operating at a minimum to prevent a humanitarian crisis in Gaza," the source said after an Israeli cabinet meeting. "And they (the crossings) will remain so until Gilad Shalit is released."

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52G4R920090317?rpc=401&

[IndianaGreen]

4. C'mon guys! Shalit is DEAD!

Olmert should stop this charade and come clean as to what he knows of Shalit's fate.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

5. Because really, aren't 1.5 million Gazans equal to one Israeli soldier?

Shalit's life is the only one that matters, right?

Shalit's parents are the only parents who feel pain at the loss of their kid, right?

PUKING ON MY MONITOR!!!

[IndianaGreen]

6. This is the same fruitless and disgusting game that was played with Hizbollah

Israel could have made a deal right after the kidnapping of Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev in July 2006. Instead we were regaled with the kabuki that has become far too common in that part of the world, including a "Shock and Awe" grand finale at the expense of the Lebanese people. Goldwasser and Regev were dead long before the first Israeli cluster bombs landed on Lebanese villages.

Gilad Shalit was kidnapped a month before Goldwasser and Regev. We have seen the same lost opportunities, the same kabuki dance, and the same "Shock and Awe" we saw in Lebanon. I fear that Shalit was dead long before Israel incinerated with phosphorus the first Gazan village.

The sooner the United States disengages from the Middle East, the better off we are going to be.

[bemildred]

7. Well, I'm torn.

Part of me says it's Olmert's last attempt at successful dick-waving. And part of me thinks it's all a dog-and-pony show to keep the blockade in place. And part of me thinks it's just fear and stupidity, sort of like what IG suggests. But I would disagree that Shalit's life seems to matter much here, he seems to be way down on the list of priorities; it is for example clearly more important to get a deal that "looks good" than to get him home promptly.

As near as I can tell, the basic positions have been the same since shortly after that Gaza "operation" ended, and nobody has moved much.

[Fozzledick]

8. Nah, Hamas thinks he's only worth 1,000 Gazans

But then, they don't think human life is worth anything to begin with, just "martyrdom".

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. OBERLINER: please be sure to consider the above when you're thinking about racist attitudes

vis-a-vis Arabs.

[henank]

12. What did Fozzledick say that isn't true?

When the Palestinians complain about Israel's disproportionate response, they are the ones who started it way back by demanding hundreds or even thousands of Palestinian prisoners in exchange for single Israeli soldiers, some of them in coffins.

So yes, obviously they consider their prisoners' lives to be worth less than one Israeli soldier, dead or alive.

Conversely Israelis value their soldiers' lives so much that they are prepared to reliquish hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. The only red line is releasing those prisoners who are so committed to murder that their very release will endanger yet more Israelis down the line.

If you find this whole thing racist, well, take it up with the Palestinian leadership who suggest these lopsided deals.

[cali]

13. uh, that's pretty insane

The poster wasn't referring to Palestinians or Arabs as an ethic group. He was referring to a political entity. And the cognitive dissonance you display here is boggling. You've said much the same kind of thing about the Israeli gov't.

It's bullshit to call that comment racist- and hypocritical in the extreme.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

14. To say "they don't think human life is worth anything" is insane. You've drunk the KoolAid Cali. nt

[cali]

15. You've said that multiple times about the Israeli gov't and the IDF

and made comments such as most of the Israeli public is happy over the deaths of children in Gaza. i agree that saying "x,y or z doesn't think human life is worth anything" is (usually, and in this case) insane- or rather stupid, but YOU do it frequently. Perhaps you should stop doing it before you attack others. And to call that comment racist is utter crap.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

21. Facts speak for themselves. When 80% of a population approves a massacre, I

don't need to provide further commentary on that.

80% of the people in Israel saw the same pictures we did and their gov't did the right thing.

Enough said.

[Fozzledick]

19. Who said anything about "Arabs"? I'm talking about a political death-cult

One that extols "martyrdom", practices suicide tactics, uses civilians as cannon-fodder to try to gain sympathy, and brags about "welcoming death" and "turning Gaza into a graveyard"!

But I always know I've hit a nerve when I receive that kind of projection.

[bemildred]

9. Deal for Shalit aborts, disappointed Israelis in dilemma

---

The Israeli government is now facing a period of intense public pressure, both from supporters and opponents of the swap deal with Hamas.

Those like those young demonstrators Tuesday afternoon who want to see Shalit returned and have climbed the psychological barrier of releasing Hamas members from Israeli jails, pushed the government to go even further in its negotiations.

On the other hand, those argue the government must seek alternatives to freeing the Palestinians. Among the options available are military operations, financial sanctions, moves against the Palestinians currently held in Israeli prisons.

"We have soldiers and special service men, why can we only depend on negotiations," Ben-Dor said.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-03/18/content_11028696.htm

[Scurrilous]

10. Report: Deportation issue led to deadlock in Shalit talks

Hamas sources tell al-Hayat newspaper deal aimed at securing kidnapped soldier's release did not fail due to disagreement over number of prisoners, but rather because of Israel's demand that freed terrorists be expelled. Head of group's military wing: We see no difference between Olmert and Netanyahu

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3688209,00.html

<snip>

"The disagreement which led to the deadlock in the negotiations aimed at securing kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit's release was not over the number of prisoners slated to be freed by Israel, but rather over their deportation, Hamas sources told the London-based Arabic-language al-Hayat newspaper on Wednesday morning.

According to the same sources, Israel offered to expel 90 prisoners living in the West Bank abroad, and 30 others to the Gaza Strip.

"The disagreement was over the deportation issue," one of the sources said. He quoted the leaders of Hamas' military wing in Gaza, Ahmed Jabari, who led the negotiations in Cairo and had said, "I have no problem keeping Shalit in captivity another year, as long as the negotiations don't achieve Hamas' demands.

"We see no difference between (Prime Minister Ehud) Olmert and (Prime Minister-designate Benjamin) Netanyahu. The only thing that interests us is that our demands will be answered," Jabari had added.

The sources also denied Israeli reports that Hamas had toughened its stance, saying that the organization did not present further conditions. According to the sources, Israel is trying to pull a maneuver in order to pressure Hamas to lower the deal's price."

[azurnoir]

17. Thanks for the update and clarification

I had wondered when I read the OP and the "the nerve, how dare they" tone

[pelsar]

18. sorry to disappoint..

why exactly the talks failed is anybodys guess....both sides are saying different things....

[Fozzledick]

20. Who are the deadly terrorists Israel refuses to release for Shalit?

Partial list of prisoners Israel refuses to free:

# Ibrahim Hamed
Head of the Hamas military wing in the West Bank city of Ramallah. He was charged with planning terror attacks in which 36 Israelis were murdered,
including the attacks on the Cafe Moment and Hebrew University cafeteria, both in Jerusalem.

His trial is ongoing.

# Hassan Salama
Head of Hamas' Jerusalem branch, responsible for two suicide bombings on the city's No. 18 bus in 1996 and for a suicide bombing in Ashkelon the same year.

He was arrested following the attacks and sentenced to 49 life sentences.

# Abdullah Barghouti
Senior bombmaker for Hamas' military wing in the West Bank. He was convicted of planning terror attacks in which 66 Israelis were murdered and hundreds hurt, including the attack on a Sbarro restaurant in Jerusalem.

He was sentenced to 67 life terms in 2003.

# Abbas Sayid
Head of the Hamas military wing in Tul Karm. He was convicted of planning terror attacks in which 35 Israelis were murdered and hundreds hurt, including the attack on the Park Hotel in Netanya in 2002.

Sayid was sentenced to 35 life terms in 2006.

More at link...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1071746.html