The racist Israeli fascist in me

[shira]

<snip>

May Ms. Roiphe pardon me, but she does not understand. I'm not sure that, at a distance of thousands of miles, anyone could. Examine the results of the election closely, and you'll find that a clear majority voted for parties who have gone on record as favoring an eventual Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, and less than six percent voted for parties who categorically reject that solution.

What, then, explains the incomprehensible behavior of these people, my friends? What common denominator, other than evil intention, can explain the continued occupation of the West Bank, the risk of demographic disaster, the ill-understood rage of a people cast as the sole perpetrator of and, if at times the victim, then certainly the deserving victim of, wrongdoing?

You won't like the answer. But in all the blindingly complex bazaar of the Middle East equation, it really comes down to one word: rockets.

It was Saddam Hussein's rockets in 1991 that got us into this peace process, and it is Palestinian rockets right now, day after day after day, that sent that peace to its grave and which cover it with a little more silt and rubble every few hours. It was fundamentally rockets and not racism that put Avigdor Lieberman where he is today. And it is rockets, more than any other single factor, that explains what happened to the Israeli left, to Meretz, and, in particular, to the Labor Party.

<snip>

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1064578.html

[aquart]

1. Now why would anyone get upset over a few dozen rockets?

I mean it's not like they're landing in the front yard where the children play...oh wait.

Well, that doesn't matter. Israelis should just stop being mean to those nice Palestinians.

[shaayecanaan]

5. Now why would anyone be upset over...

being occupied, being unable to purchase land in one's ancestral homeland,
being exiled, being reviled, denuded of one's land, shot at with live ammunition without provocation, beaten by settlers with baseball bats, bombed, having one's farmland torn asunder by bulldozers, having one's home demolished, being denied for building permits, being stateless, being blockaded, having one's home taken over by soldiers and used as a snipers nest, and being humiliated, beaten, spat on, and pissed on at checkpoints?

Or does that matter?

[shira]

2. a little more from the article

"But I have yet to meet one Israeli, Meretz voters included, who is willing to hand over the West Bank while Ashkelon is even now in the gunners' sights, and rockets fly unabated.

I have long believed that in terms of their destructive effects on peace prospects, the settlements are the Qassams of the Jews. What I failed to recognize at first, was that the effect of Qassams is to enshrine West Bank settlements, and, more than any other single factor, protect them from eviction.

In the main, the world has no idea - nor does it particularly care - that when a rocket up to nine feet long flies up to 25 miles traveling at half a mile per second and lands with up to 44 pounds of explosives packed into its warhead - the human consequence could easily be carnage.

As far as the world knows, that rocket will fall without a sound. A house may be destroyed, childrens' nerves shot to shreds, perhaps for life. Entire communities, whole cities, suffer from post-traumatic stress. But unless 10 Israelis are killed, or 20, that rocket never existed. 10,000 rockets, fired at civilian areas, unprotected by anything - I am truly ashamed to acknowledge - other than miracles."

[geek tragedy]

7. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

The Israelis were building and expanding settlements long before those rockets were flying.

[Shaktimaan]

10. rockets yes... other terrorism, no.

The rockets were only enacted because Israel blocked off all other avenues of attack. And those attacks, in one form or another, far predate any of the settlements. Focusing exclusively on rockets while ignoring suicide bombings, hijackings and all the other brands of Palestinian terrorism dating back to neighborhood massacres in the 20's is a great example of missing the forest for want of a single tree.

[geek tragedy]

18. Both sides are soiled.

Stopping the settlements is in both parties' interests, and the continued expansion of them is prima facie proof of bad faith.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

3. What's the racist , facist excuse from 1967-2006?

[pelsar]

8. the facists and racists are the ones ruling gaza.....and they refer to themselves as Palestinians...

so you got a fascist theocratict govt in gaza that is now implementing summary executions and shari law (dont know yet about stonings....)

your 'gaza" friends after the pullout decided that racism and fascism was far more important that improving the lives of the Palestinians and figure that killing jews was far more important than anything else....


and they keep on trying to kill jews daily

funny thing is, their "friends" and others dont seem to mind

______

pre gaza pullout, there was no excuse.....unfortunately, today the Palestinians of Gaza (and i do mean the population for submitting to their democratically elected leaders and accepting their ways so passively) have given the israeli right the perfect excuse...and get passive support from most of israelis today.

great idea those "defensive kaassams"..they're doing a great job of "defending the land of Palestinians"...

[ProgressiveMuslim]

16. "they keep on trying to kill jews daily..."

I thought you were channelling the recently TSd McGhee.

True colors much?

[cali]

11. I was in Munich in 1972 at the Olympics

when Israeli athletes were kidnapped and murdered. I was a teenager at the time. I've never forgotten it.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. Are you suggesting Israel was responsible for no violence against the people of Palestine

during the pre-Hamas days?

[cali]

17. no. I'm suggesting that the situation is far more complex

than the black/white/good/evil lens you view things through. You espouse the theory that everything Israel has done to the Palestinians stems from racism and the evil desire of Israels to murder and destroy Palestinians.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

19. I'm saying that racist attitudes toward Arab Muslims and Christians are the foundation for

the state of Israel.

You can't do grave injustice against another people -- you can't commit genodice, or ethnic cleansing, or massacre an entire community, or create a million refugees and then erase evidence that they lived without deeply held racist views.

I am not saying that Israel is the only modern nation built with a racist foundation. Not by a longshot. But to deny the racism toward Arabs which is inherent in the implentation of the Zionist dream is just fantasy.

[cali]

20. And I'm saying that's bigotry on your part.

Your hate is just sad. I hope you're able to deal with it healthily at some point in the future.

First of all, without denying that there's racism entangled with Israel's roots, that's scarcely the foundation of the country. Ironically, the foundation of Israel is deeply rooted in the history of genocide and millenia of oppression perpetrated against and on the Jews.

Claiming that the Palestinians have suffered genocide is simply a lie. Yes, they've suffered ethnic cleansing and it's been perpetrated by the Israelis. Yes, it's wrong. Yes, reparations should be made. And yes, Palestinians have also done terrible things to Israelis out of racism. And although you can't deal with the reality, that was true years before there was an Israel.

I'm not denying that racism on the part of Israelis isn't hideous or something that must be reckoned with. I absolutely deny that it is the foundation of the nation.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

24. I am not claiming Palestinians suffered genocide or ethnic cleansing.

I am speaking about racism more generally. No nation can commit genocide or ethnic cleansing, or engage in massive killing, without some degree of belief that those they are harming are inferior.

Do you deny the racist foundation of the USA as well? Do you believe African Americans commit "racism" against European Americans? Do you believe that universities needs a "men's center" to go along with the "women's center?" I believe what I am writing about race isn't "hate" but pretty much standard progressive thinking.

The state of Israel is founded upon racist belief and action. That is a FACT. The rallying cry was "A land without a people, for a people without a land." FCOL -- the Palestinians were FUCKING INVISIBLE!!!! Doesn't get more racist than that, LOL! Geez, Zionism is a colonial movement that was dedicated to removing indigenous people from their land. If that's not racist, I'd love to see what you think IS!

[bemildred]

4. Is he bragging or complaining?

I can't tell. Does being upset about the situation really help you?

[pelsar]

9. hes explaining.....

nothing more than that.....its just the reality of the situation today as most israelis see it.....

[bemildred]

12. Just imagine the frustration of living in Gaza.

The reality of the situation as most Gazans see it. Are you going to be Attilla the Hun or Mary Poppins? If this is just for a domestic pity party, I suppose it's OK, but you aren't going to convince anybody else that you are the abused party here with this sort of whining about the situation. Nobody did this to you, you all did it to yourselves.

[pelsar]

13. sure the gazans got it worse.....

Nobody did this to you, you all did it to yourselves

thats what we keep telling them....DONT TRY TO KILL US....its could be a win win...but they dont seem to get it

_____

why should we bother trying to convince others that killing us is really not a good idea.....its hasnt gotten much play in the past and i doubt it will in the future......

the poster for his own reasons thought he would give it a try......obviously hoping that something has changed......

[bemildred]

14. I'm just asking why you expect them to behave better than you do? nt

[pelsar]

21. yes i do expect basic democratic values....

i.e. the concept of not trying to kill people randomly on a day to day basis by the governing body...or accepting that value from groups within that society

without such a base value i do not believe such a society can nor should last within the community of nations/societies

its self interest-such a value is destructive not just to those within the society,but those around it as well.
______

israel, the govt, nor the population has that particular self destructive value...hamas does as well as various elements of their society (supported indirectly by their govt)

[shira]

22. bullshit

Israelis did it to themselves.

Is that the excuse for the '67 war? And do you seriously believe that had Israel returned all that territory immediately following the war that there would be peace in the region right now? Would Israelis be victims NOW had there been no occupation or settlement activity at all? Can you PLEASE try to be honest?

[geek tragedy]

6. "less than six percent voted for parties who categorically reject that solution."

Has the author read Likud's platform, which specifically opposes any Arab state west of the Jordan River?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. So Israel is expanding its settlements because of the rockets?

This post is nonsense. The rockets are a convenient excuse for Israeli land-grabbing, not a reason.