Israel to seal Gaza crossings for four days for Passover

[azurnoir]

Meanwhile, on Wednesday, Israel decided to open the Kerem Shalom crossing to allow 80 truckloads of humanitarian aid into the besieged Strip. Among these, 24 trucks belong to the UN and other international organizations, 43 to Palestinian the commercial sector, and 13 to the agricultural sector.

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=36964

[Howardx]

1. why?

to celebrate?

[county worker]

2. Israel sucks! IMHO

[GoesTo11]

12. You are wrong.

And your O is not that H.

This action sucks. Other actions suck. Lieberman sucks. But Israel is pretty awesome.

[Jefferson23]

13. I agree, blanket statements pretty much suck, and I like the way

you took apart that abbreviation, nice style.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. Four instead of seven.

Progress.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. what is passover supposed to be?

A time of cleansing, purification, celebration of the parting of the red sea, and fasting?

I guess they simply want the palestinians to fast along with them.

[oberliner]

5. Or maybe they fear a repeat of the Passover massacre where Hamas killed senior citizens

who were celebrating the holiday in 2002 when a Palestinian suicide bomber killed 30 civilians and injured over 100.

In 2004 there was several attempts by Hamas, Fatah, and Islamic Jihad to commit similar suicide attacks on Israeli civilians over Passover that were thwarted.

[Howardx]

6. so oberliner

how is not letting food into gaza for four days going to prevent that?

[oberliner]

7. It makes it a lot harder to infliltrate Israel from Gaza when the crossings are closed

You will note that all crossings have been open and truckloads of food have been transported into Gaza over the past week.

From Ma'an News:

Gaza crossings: fully open for first time in week; to be fully shut for Passover

The Kerem Shalom crossing will see 115 truckloads enter, including 45 for the UN and international organizations, 56 trucks for the private sector will ship dairy products, frozen meat, flour, grains, sugar, rice, spaghetti, cooking oil, diapers, toilet tissues and blankets and 13 other trucks will transfer in fruits, garlic and agriculture nylon material to the agricultural-private sector.

The Karni crossing will be opened to allow 45 truckloads with wheat and fodder, and an unknown amount of fuel will enter through Nahal Oz.

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&Do=&ID=36942

Israel is going on high alert against potential attacks over the holiday. I would expect that the crossings will be re-opened after the four days assuming there are no terrorist attacks conducted by Hamas during that time as they did in 2002 with the Passover massacre.

[Howardx]

8. not allowing goods INTO gaza

is going to stop terror attacks how? i understand why they wouldnt be letting people leave gaza into israel but i dont understand how letting goods into gaza lessens israel's security.

[Violet_Crumble]

25. Damn good question n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. Wait a sec.,

115 trucks.
THERE ARE 1.5 MILLION REFUGEES THERE.

Even worse, the IDF deliberately targeted water supplies, farms and food storage during their last occupation.

I once heard a UN guy state that their rule of thumb was one truck = 1000 meals with water and other necessary supplies. So even with these numbers, you are talking about ONE BLOODY MEAL for 115,000 people, not even a tenth of their needs. How close is that to the necessary 18,000,000 meals needed for those four days.

This is more PR by the IDF. The math, if you do it, makes the truth even more disgusting.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. The ENTIRE population of Gaza are refugees?!

From where?

[Ken Burch]

18. Perhaps not the ENTIRE population, but much of it

Gaza's where a lot of Palestinians were forced to go after '48.

From Wikipedia:

"In 2007 approximately 1.4 million Palestinians live in the Gaza Strip, of whom almost 1.0 million are UN-registered refugees.<89> The majority of the Palestinians are descendants of refugees who were driven from their homes during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.".

From the Jewish Virtual Library:

"The Gaza Strip is unique amongst UNRWA's five fields of operations as the majority of its population are refugees and over half of the refugees live in eight camps. Most of the people who fled to the Gaza Strip as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war were from Jaffa, towns and villages south of Jaffa, and from the Beersheva area in the Negev. In all, some 200,000 refugees came to Gaza, whose original inhabitants numbered only 80,000. Such an influx severely burdened this narrow strip of land; an area of only 360 square kilometers. Over three-quarters of the current estimated population of some 1.4 million are registered refugees, representing 22.42 per cent of all UNRWA registered Palestine refugees."

[Behind the Aegis]

19. So, no.

[Ken Burch]

20. It's enough that most of the population are West Bank refugees

You didn't get proven right there.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. So, no. I already understood that answer.

[Ken Burch]

23. The difference between "all" and "most" is meaningless.

n/t.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. It is not.

"Most" doesn't equal "all." Too bad you don't understand that actual fact.

[Sezu]

29. But "all," has more demonizing power than "most," I

suspect you knew that already; it's a pretty well used technique with the usual suspects.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

32. There are a fucking MILLION REFUGEES. How many must there be for it to matter????

[ProgressiveMuslim]

28. My husband's family are refugees from Isdud. You probably know it as Ashdod.

He grew up in the refugee camp in Khan Younis and both his parents were teachers for decades in UNWRA schools.

Palestinian refugees: real human beings, with real stories, and real families. They bleed red just like you. They learn, play, become educated and start their own families. Some of them go on to achieve their dreams, and work to make the world a better place. Refugees are not drooling hyenas, waiting at the gates to be "let back in" to ravage the Israelis who stole their land and displaced them.

I can assure you if the refugee problem were addressed tomorrow, not one person from my husband's family would have any interest in living in Ashdod.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. Was their leaving forced or voluntary?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

49. Are you joking? No one in 1948 *chose* to go live in a refugee camp. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. I have been told differently from people who also were raised in Jabalia

Their story was that their parents had left as requested by the Arab armies, fully believing that the Jews would be crushed and that they would return to their home soon afterward. I understand it to be far from unique.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

51. Oh really? Your "friends" in Jabalya? Yes, the accomodations in Jabalya are far superior

to the homes left in Ashkelon and Ashdod.

I can see why they "chose" to leave.

You might want to consult a history book written after 1949. That tired old crap has long been debunked.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

52. The history is actually mixed

Some left believing they would be returning shortly, others were clearly forced. That is clear from contemporary sources. I too questioned it and asked about it while I was there. Few are left who are actually making the decisions, so the percentages will remain unresolved.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

53. I'd love to hear about your trip to Jabalya. Please share! nt

[ProgressiveMuslim]

54. And whether some were driven at gunpoint, or left in fear, the reason for leaving is the same.

They did not feel safe staying in place. The nascent Israeli nation was culpable either way. Subsequen massacres and flattened villages certain bear out their fear and concern, don'tyou agree?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

55. They were alsoactively encouraged to leave by the Arab armies as well, with the promise of immediate

return. I have a hard time holding the Jews culpable for that.

There were a number of reasons and a number of outcomes. Its not nearly as binary as some seem to portray

[ProgressiveMuslim]

56. The crime was not in fleeing. It was in now allowing refugees to RETURN.

For that, Israel is 100% culpable.

[azurnoir]

58. Your right Jews are not culpable for the for the outcome

but Israeli's were to a very large extent.
I always enjoy how only one side is allowed that bit of conflation Jews/Israeli's

[oberliner]

57. You posted an article in this forum that states otherwise

From your OP:

Some fled in anticipation of a quick destruction by invading armies of the newly formed Israeli state.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x270583

[azurnoir]

10. So the infiltrators would be more likely to go through well

guarded crossings than the fence which is less guarded? Sounds more like continued punishment for deeds of 7 years ago and an attempt 5 years ago, as to the truck the amount of supplies being allowed is inadequate and no supplies for repairinbg the damage to the infrastructure of Gaza during Cast Lead are being allowed in at all

[shaayecanaan]

14. None of them were from Gaza (nt)

[Ken Burch]

17. It hadn't occurred to the Israeli government that Hamas could have ALREADY

had people make the crossing BEFORE this closure?

(...assuming that Hamas was actually planning anything like that, of course...)

[azurnoir]

11. Israel is also "locking down" the West Bank

The closure is supposed to be lifted on April 18th, but according to the IDF spokesperson, it “will be carried out in accordance with security assessments”—which means, it will reopen ‘when they feel like it’.

http://ramallahonline.com/content/3191-passover-lock-down-of-the-west-bank

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. Unless some dickhead soldiers need a hookah or something critical like that...

[ConsAreLiars]

22. Hey,there's a good way to celebrate the non-killing of the first-borns by an insane deity.

Deprive a bunch of the underclass of food and stuff, cut it to a fraction of that needed to survive, and make their lives even harder. Way to go! Good thing Israel is not under control of theocrazies or known as the Israelite Republic of Israel or grants those of their own religion special privileges and massacres those of other (crazy) faiths, or it might look a bit more like Saudi Arabia (or worse) than post-enlightenment America and Europe.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

26. This year at Passover it is Palestinians who are demanding 'Let my people go!'

THROUGH the ritual of the Seder, Passover tells the story of the Pharaoh's oppression of the Jews in ancient Egypt and their eventual emancipation from slavery. It's a time of reflection, and after the recent war in Gaza, many Jews are asking: Who are the slaves and who is the Pharaoh?
The war saw more than 1,417 Palestinians killed, more than 900 of them civilians, as opposed to 13 Israelis. The war was not only a devastating event for Palestinians but also the moral challenge of our time to the American Jewish community whose communal leadership supported the onslaught publicly and loudly. This year, Passover gives us a chance to reflect on this war, our history and our responsibility.

This year, by coincidence, the start of Passover also falls near an important anniversary, Deir Yassin Day. Deir Yassin was a Palestinian village destroyed by Zionist militias on April 9, 1948.

More than 100 men, women and children were killed. As word of the massacre, and others like it, spread through Palestine, many residents fled, expecting they'd be able to return after the fighting subsided. Within a year, Deir Yassin, emptied of Palestinians, was repopulated with Jewish immigrants and its name was erased from the map.

The Passover Seder is about learning and teaching - using the stories of the past to understand our place in the world today. The story of Egypt is told and remembered through ritual, questioning and storytelling.

This year, a group of Jewish activists in Philadelphia are using the Seder ritual to wrestle with the Jewish history of being both slave and Pharaoh.

Today and tomorrow, Philadelphia Jews for a Just Peace are holding "From Deir Yassin to Gaza: an 18-hour Passover Vigil" outside the Israeli Consulate. This event will combine a memorial to Deir Yassin, a Passover ritual remembering the past as well as a teach-in and discussion.

We are holding this event to understand the past and take responsibility for its legacies in the present.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20090407_Letters__Passover_vigil_for_peace.html

[ProgressiveMuslim]

27. At a Philadelphia vigil, Jews talk of the division within their families over The Conflict

Last night and this morning, a group called Philadelphia Jews for a Just Peace had a vigil outside the Israeli consulate in their city to commemorate the fact that the anniversary of the massacre at Deir Yassin outside Jerusalem in 1948 falls on the same day as Passover, today, April 8.

(snip)

"How much support do you have from your family in your work on this issue?" I asked Milwaukee if before we finished up we could just get a nose count, Yes or no, on that question.

We ended up spending another half hour on it, with people talking. Any impression I had that the division this issue has brought to my family was unique soon disappeared. A couple of people cried.

Here are some of the things people said, a little garbled from a long night:

--My father won't leave the place of, It's complicated. It's too complicated to have an easy answer to.

--I've argued with my mother for years about it. She's never wanted to hear anything. But this year when the bombs began falling in Gaza she came to a demonstration with me. She stood there and even held a sign. That was real progress.


--My father's Peace Now. So he feels like he's done the right thing. He's a liberal. He used to go into the Hebrew school and tell them to put the green line on the map. They didn't even have the Green Line on the '67 lines. But they're Zionists. I was born there. When I got into the issue, they couldn't believe it, they couldn't believe how radical my sister and I were. For a while I wasn't welcome to come to the house. They're in Israel now, having Pesach. My sister and I aren't invited.

--When I got into it, my parents thought, She's a Jew for Jesus. That was the only way they could explain my stance, emotionally. It was that foreign to them. They did visit me in the West Bank. They saw a refugee camp and faced some of the conditions there.

--My mother's Israeli and the child of Holocaust survivors. My father's American and he studies the Holocaust. I was afraid to look at the issue all my life. Then when I looked into it, my mother said, Yes it's apartheid and we should have just killed them all, or moved them out. It was shocking to me, especially the casual use of terms that Nazis might have used. My father is much more reasoned. It's like the difference between Americans and Israelis.

--When I was in the West Bank, I was afraid to come home. I didn't want to come back. Then my mother did a great thing. She said on the phone, You come home and I promise you, I will listen to you for two weeks. Anything you want to say, anything you need to express, I will listen and not say anything back, or argue with you, for two weeks. So I came home. And my mother did that for me. But I never talked to my father about it, he was too upset.

--My parents are dead, and frankly it's good they are because they would not understand the work I'm doing. My son got me into it, so we get along great. We talk all the time. But my extended family, where I'm going for seder, one of the cousins is a leader of the religious community in Hebron, in the West Bank. So we never talk about these things.

I'm forgetting a lot of the stories. It went on for a long time. It was like a Seder in that the stories were liberating, the understanding of shared grief around the issue. My own story seemed so humdrum and bourgeois, I said it in a line, I have a very loving family and we don't talk about this stuff.

more...
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/04/last-night-and-this-morning-a-philadelphia-group-called-jews-for-a-just-peace-had-a-vigil-outside-the-israeli-consulate-to-c.html

[shira]

30. Gazans starving again? That's so last month.

Guess no one got the memo from over 2 weeks ago:

Government decides not to limit entry of food to Gaza
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3691212,00.html

So no limit on food entering Gaza the past 2 weeks and we're to believe that by closing the border for 4 days, people will starve? And let's not forget EGYPT also shares a border with Gaza.

Really, all this 'concern' is touching.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

31. Wow. "so last month?" I'm glad that you find human misery so entertaining Shira.

You're quite a specimen.

[shira]

33. just pointing out the need here to demonize Israel

There is no one starving in Gaza. There was no one starving in Gaza the past 6 months. Food has been streaming in for weeks now. Closing off the border now for 4 days will hurt no one. Egypt still shares a border with Gaza just in case.

Did you know this?

BTW, I was always against the food shortages, knowing that Hamas would just use it for PR purposes (like when they bombed trucks at the border bringing in food). Funny how that was blamed on Israel too. Hamas enjoys seeing its own civilians suffer. Makes for good PR that you can post here at DU. As someone who lived there among Palestinian civilians, what do you think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drv_bCeYvg0

[Jefferson23]

34. Definition of starving:

* snip
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
starved; starv·ing
Etymology:
Middle English sterven to die, starve, from Old English steorfan to die; akin to Old High German sterban to die, and probably to Lithuanian starinti to stiffen — more at stare
Date:
15th century

intransitive verb1 a: to perish from lack of food b: to suffer extreme hunger2 aarchaic : to die of cold bBritish : to suffer greatly from cold3: to suffer or perish from deprivation <starved for affection>transitive verb1 a: to kill with hunger b: to deprive of nourishment c: to cause to capitulate by or as if by depriving of nourishment2: to destroy by or cause to suffer from deprivation3archaic : to kill with cold. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/starving





Also, From ICRC, snip* In unusually strong terms, the neutral agency said it believed Israel had breached international humanitarian law in the incident.



Gaza Strip
ICRC finds starving children beside dead mother
(3)
January 8, 2009, 14:59

Relief workers found four starving children sitting next to their dead mothers and other corpses in a house in a part of Gaza City bombed by Israeli forces, the International Committee of the Red Cross said on Thursday.
http://www.welt.de/english-news/article2992424/ICRC-fin...

[shira]

38. can you be a bit more coherent next post?

what are you trying to state or ask here?

[Jefferson23]

39. The information is clear for all who have the ability to comprehend, and then

there are those who evidently choose to ignore it, like you shira.

[shira]

40. Israel did not allow a humanitarian crisis WRT food shortage

That's a fact, sir.

Do you choose to ignore that Gaza also shares a border with Egypt? What prevented all those UN truckfulls of food from going through Rafah, hmmm? Who was stopping them? Didn't stop Saudi Arabia from sending food in early December 2008:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=225998&mesg_id=226221

Why couldn't UN trucks take a 20km detour into Rafah and do the same as Saudis who delivered food? Why play political games with "starving" Gazans? Are you really outraged over this? Then where's that righteous indignation against the UN for playing political games with Gazan lives? Instead of waiting behind the Israel border with Gaza and complaining, the UN trucks could have just gone through Rafah like Saudi Arabia. They didn't. Let's hear all that righteous indignation now, okay? I'm ready for it. Any moment now.

Also, read this OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x227516

Feeling duped yet? Wondering just what the hell is going on with media reports against Israel? Still thinking Israel isn't being demonized?

[Jefferson23]

41. I'll stand with the neutral sources, the ones I posted, you can attempt

to excuse Israel by any means possible but that doesn't change what the ICRC reported. They have no history of being an Israeli hater, and also, your OP is dated, December 12, 2008 at 4:54 AM EDT vs the ICRC report came later in January.

Egypt did not wage OCL, Israel did, try and remain focused on who is responsible for that decision and who is ultimately responsible for allowing aid in. Be aware that the amount of aid that did reach Gaza did not match the need, as you appear to have a willfully distorted grasp of reality when you posted:

"There is no one starving in Gaza. There was no one starving in Gaza the past 6 months."

It is shameful what you write and you should be aware, that your own elected representatives do not agree with you. You should be aware that 60 House members wrote Secretary Clinton urging for immediate action to address the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip.

Their concerns went even further than food, and included aid for medical assistance and construction materials, this letter was sent to her January 28th, President Obama responded on January 31.

snip* The money will go to the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA),the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). According to the U.S. State Department, "These organizations are distributing emergency food assistance, providing medical assistance and temporary shelter, creating temporary employment, and restoring access to electricity and potable water to the people of Gaza."

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/state_of_change/403824/obama_releases_aid_for_gaza?rel=sidebox






That you dismiss the numerous reports from various agencies and from US officials is something you will have to live with.

[shira]

42. your neutral sources are anything but

Let's just keep pretending that the sources I cited for you - hardly "pro Israel" - aren't credible. Let's also pretend that nothing ever got through Egypt via tunnels to Hamas, from big weapons down to livestock and food. Let's pretend that the UN couldn't possibly ask Egypt to let it send its trucks through Rafah, just a few kilometers from the Israeli border crossings. And finally, let's pretend Egypt wasn't the safer alternative since Hamas frequently bombed and mortared the Israeli crossings.

Nice reality you live in.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

44. Thanks for your dispassionate rebuttal of this insane propaganda.nt

[shira]

46. the article about Saudi food getting through Rafah , while UN trucks waited in Israel

and let Palestinians "starve", doesn't make you even a little angry at the UN for using your fellow Palestinians as political pawns?

[Jefferson23]

47. You're very welcome.

[shira]

45. as for the ICRC being a neutral source.....

Take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sow8R9uZ_4

Are you aware of the ICRC ever condemning Hamas for this kind of violation of Geneva Convention. Ch 6, Art 35? There have been multiple reports of this by Palestinians against Hamas. Where is the ICRC condemnation against it? The ICRC has been known to condemn Israel for targetting their ambulances, which appears disingenuous considering that they don't also include the little context about Hamas comandeering such vehicles.

Now look at this video about 2:30 in and you'll find CNN's Anderson Cooper talking about how Hizbullah used ambulances for propaganda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXy6q4cH4pw&feature=related

Also, in this Muhamad al-Dura video, you'll find ambulances being used for staged "theatre".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys

I would think if they were neutral, the ICRC would have something to say about these things. If not, who are they protecting? Certainly not the common citizens of Gaza or Lebanon.

[azurnoir]

36. Can you think of another incidence

where it has been argued that people are not starving just very malnourished?

[Jefferson23]

37. This statement from ICRC is not exclusive to these 4 children.

But here is more, one reason I responded to post# 33 is largely in part to her false claim which was:
"There is no one starving in Gaza. There was no one starving in Gaza the past 6 months."

There have been reports of concern of malnutrition.

UN officials warn of malnutrition threat as Gaza border crossings continue

29 January 2008 – Every border crossing into the Gaza Strip from Israel remains closed, except for the import of fuel supplies, United Nations officials said today, warning that Palestinians face the rising threat of malnutrition if the current lockdown continues.

Only 32 truckloads of goods have entered Gaza since 18 January, when the comprehensive Israeli closures were imposed, the Office of the UN Special Coordinator (UNSCO) reported. This compares to a daily average of 250 truckloads before June last year.

UNSCO said a backlog of 224 trucks, belonging to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), the World Health Organization (WHO) and the World Food Programme (WFP), has now accumulated. http://www.un.org/apps/news/story/story.asp?NewsID=25439&Cr=palestin&Cr1=

[azurnoir]

43. This has been going on for quite a long time

since Cast Lead it has gotten much worse, my post was reference to the parsing going on here concerning starvation vs "mere" malnutrition.

[azurnoir]

35. Israel closes Hebron’s Ibrahimi Mosque to Muslims for Passover

Hebron – Ma’an –Israeli authorities decided on Thursday to close the Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron to Muslim worshippers on Sunday and Monday to allow Jewish Israeli settlers to celebrate Passover at the site.

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=37005

This the mosque where in 1994 Baruch Goldstein carried out the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre