U.S.: Jerusalem's status subject to negotiation

[IndianaGreen]

Last update - 18:35 24/05/2009

U.S.: Jerusalem's status subject to negotiation

By Natasha Mozgovaya, Haaretz Correspondent

The U.S. State Department said Sunday that the future status of Jerusalem would be determined through peace negotiations, despite Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's declaration last week that the capital would "never again be partitioned and divided."

"Jerusalem is a final status issue. Israel and the Palestinians have agreed to resolve its status during negotiations. We will support their efforts to reach agreements on all final status issues," a State Department spokesman said when asked to respond to Netanyahu's proclamation that Jerusalem would always remain under Israeli sovereignty.

At a state ceremony marking the annual Jerusalem Day on Thursday, Netanyahu said" "United Jerusalem is Israel's capital. Jerusalem was always ours and will always be ours. It will never again be partitioned and divided."

<snip>

Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said later Thursday that Netanyahu's position on Jerusalem was a setback to the goal of a two-state solution, which is strongly supported by the Obama administration.

"Mr. Netanyahu, by saying that, he's saying the state of conflict will be eternal," Erekat said.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1087788.html

:spank:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. I can not ever see Israel giving up the Golan or partitioning Jerusalem.

While it is not politically correct to say so, I did like the idea Jack Ryan came up with Jerusalem as an open city governed by three patriarchs.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Civil war will erupt if an Israeli government were to withdraw to pre-1967 borders

Compare Israel's settlement expansion policies to that of a man digging a ditch. Sooner or later the ditch will become so deep that the man could not extricate himself from it on his own. The pursuit of the so-called "facts on the ground" is a double edge sword, for it prevents Israelis from undoing from what they have done. Palestinians will never agree to Jewish settlements remaining on the West Bank. The settlers that have lived an entire generation on the West Bank will not leave without a fight, and that's without throwing Jerusalem into the explosive mix.

Since the 1967 June War was a defensive war, Israel could have just annexed all of the land taken from her defeated enemies, and granted citizenship to any Egyptian or Jordanian Palestinian that chose to remain in the newly expanded Israel.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

3. lets fix it in a simple way

Tell the settlers that if they remain in their settlements after the peace deal has been struck then they will become part of the Palestinian state, subject to its laws and rules. Would give em the choice of basically staying at their settlement and becoming Palestinians or leaving and staying Israeli

Would the above threat ever be said, i very very very strongly doubt it, but it would be quite interesting if it does

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Since the 1967 war Israel has held the land longer than the original invasion

and done more with it

[azurnoir]

5. Israel wants in to both the EU and NATO

perhaps those or one of those items could be used as "carrots" in negotiations

[IndianaGreen]

6. NATO should have been disbanded at the end of the Cold War

NATO is a lapdog of American imperialism, a war mongering organization (the attack on the former Yugoslavia), and a retail outlet for American armaments.

[azurnoir]

7. True enough

but Israel should feel right at home there.

[excess_3]

8. the 'specialness' of Jerusalem to the Palis' is exactly what?

the 'specialness' of Jerusalem to the
Palestinians is exactly what?

.........................
Jerusalem is Islam's 3rd holiest city.

was that written down somewhere before 1948?

[bemildred]

9. Did you have a point to make? nt

[excess_3]

11. yes. I would like to know if, 'Jerusalem is Islam's 3rd holiest city'

yes. I would like to know if, 'Jerusalem is Islam's 3rd holiest city', is a 20th Century idea (as I suspect it is)
or is the idea longstanding

[bemildred]

13. That is a question that you could easily look into yourself.

And reach your own conclusions about.

[shaayecanaan]

10. The specialness of Nazareth to the Jews is what?

Nazareth is arguably the second holiest city in Christianity, after Bethlehem. To Jews its just another city. Does that mean that (largely Arab) Christians have a better claim to it?

[excess_3]

12. Christians are not demanding that Naz. be the capital of ...

Christians are not demanding that Nazareth be the capital of ...
some political division because of its specialness.

[azurnoir]

14. European Christians

initiated 9 crusades to conquer the "holy land " and lost

[Douglas Carpenter]

15. Considering that the Islamic resistance to the crusades were fought largely over Jerusalem

several hundreds of years ago - it is beyond ludicrous to deny the seriousness of the Islamic claim. This is something certainly no sane or rational person could possibly deny.

Anyone with even the faintest understanding of history knows about Saladin who has been celebrated in Arab and Islamic folklore since the 12th Century when his forces reestablished Islamic control over Jerusalem.

Everyone knows that there will not be a resolution to the conflict without resolving the issue of Jerusalem in a manner acceptable to Jews, Christians and Muslims. Those from ANY side who reject compromise on Jerusalem all know perfectly well that they are being disingenuous if they claim to want peace and are simply finding a way to reject any serious possibility of a peaceful end to the conflict.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

17. That many of them come from families that have lived there for centuries.

The Israelis want Jerusalem.

The Palestinians have a right to Jerusalem.

[oberliner]

19. You wrote: "The Israelis want Jerusalem. The Palestinians have a right to Jerusalem."

My question:

Does that include the Jewish Quarter?

That is to say, would you regard the Jewish Quarter as an area that Palestinians have a right to and Israelis do not?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

22. Mea culpa - I was annoyed/in a hurry, and I was sloganeering.

To give a fuller, less stupid explanation of my position:

:"The Jews/the Palestinians have a right to X" can mean two very different things - "Houses in X should be owned/inhabited by" or "the laws governing should be passed by".

:-I think that Israel should never have been founded. In an ideal world, that would leave the Palestinians ruling the whole of Jerusalem, but the Jewish quarter inhabited by Jews (and native Jews free to live in the rest of Jerusalem/Israel, vote, etc, and some scope for non-native immigration irrespective of race/religion). In reality, I don't know if that's what it would have resulted in, but I think we can be reasonably confident it would have been far better than what actually happened - a lot of the hatred between Jews and Palestinians and their neighbours can be traced back to the expulsion of the latter by the former, but not all of it can.

:-The Jewish quarter of Jerusalem historically has a Jewish majority. However, I don't think it's large enough to justify self-governance - I think that the Jews in the Jewish quarter of Jerusalem should have been ruled by a government that they vote for the same as everyone else but - because it would have been the government of the whole of Palestine - would have been primarily Palestinian, in the same way that the Chinese in Chinatown in New York are ruled by a primarily American government (although, in both cases, a fair degree of devolution of power seems desirable).

:-I think that the only way peace could work now is if Israel withdraws to the Green Line, and the Palestinians are given some measure of sovereigny (possibly with caveats) over all of Jerusalem that lies outside it.

:-I don't think there is any chance whatsoever of that happening.

So a summarised answer to your question is "to rule, mostly yes, to live in, mostly no".

[cali]

21. they both have a right to Jerusalem and their are also Israeli Jews

whose families have lived there for centuries.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. See my #22. N.T.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Are you ignorant by choice or were you born that way?

Get back to us after you do some basic research on I/P, else you will be eaten alive by both sides in this forum, as well as by those that are sick of both sides.

[cali]

20. the specialness of Jerusalem to Palestinians- and don't use the deraogatory

Palis again- is that it's a city that holds generations of Palestinian history. That's its significance. Ir is hardly something that's solely based in religion. The Palestinians have a valid claim to establish the capitol of a Palestinian state there, just as the Israelis have a valid claim to do so.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. The Geneva Accord offers one of the most plausible proposals for an agreement on Jerusalem

I do not necessarily agree with everything in the Geneva Accord. But I think their proposal on Jerusalem is one of the most workable schemes anyone has negotiated. Considering the centrality of the issue of Jerusalem to both Israelis and Palestinians and considering the complexity of competing claims and the sensitivities surrounding the issue of Jerusalem, it would be hard to imagine a more plausible arrangement that might at least satisfy the minimum absolute requirements for both sides which everyone familiar with the conflict realize to be an absolute prerequisite for bringing about a peaceful resolution to the conflict.

Article 6 – Jerusalem

http://www.geneva-accord.org/mainmenu/english

Religious and Cultural Significance:

The Parties recognize the universal historic, religious, spiritual, and cultural significance of Jerusalem and its holiness enshrined in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. In recognition of this status, the Parties reaffirm their commitment to safeguard the character, holiness, and freedom of worship in the city and to respect the existing division of administrative functions and traditional practices between different denominations.

The Parties shall establish an inter-faith body consisting of representatives of the three monotheistic faiths, to act as a consultative body to the Parties on matters related to the city’s religious significance and to promote inter-religious understanding and dialogue. The composition, procedures, and modalities for this body are set forth in Annex X.

Capital of Two States

The Parties shall have their mutually recognized capitals in the areas of Jerusalem under their respective sovereignty.

Sovereignty

Sovereignty in Jerusalem shall be in accordance with attached Map 2. This shall not prejudice nor be prejudiced by the arrangements set forth below.

Border Regime:

The border regime shall be designed according to the provisions of Article 11, and taking into account the specific needs of Jerusalem (e.g., movement of tourists and intensity of border crossing use including provisions for Jerusalemites) and the provisions of this Article.

al-Haram al-Sharif/ Temple Mount (Compound)

International Group

An International Group, composed of the IVG and other parties to be agreed upon by the Parties, including members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), shall hereby be established to monitor, verify, and assist in the implementation of this clause.

For this purpose, the International Group shall establish a Multinational Presence on the Compound, the composition, structure, mandate and functions of which are set forth in Annex X.

The Multinational Presence shall have specialized detachments dealing with security and conservation. The Multinational Presence shall make periodic conservation and security reports to the International Group. These reports shall be made public.

The Multinational Presence shall strive to immediately resolve any problems arising and may refer any unresolved disputes to the International Group that will function in accordance with Article 16.

The Parties may at any time request clarifications or submit complaints to the International Group which shall be promptly investigated and acted upon.

The International Group shall draw up rules and regulations to maintain security on and conservation of the Compound. These shall include lists of the weapons and equipment permitted on the site.

Regulations Regarding the Compound

In view of the sanctity of the Compound, and in light of the unique religious and cultural significance of the site to the Jewish people, there shall be no digging, excavation, or construction on the Compound, unless approved by the two Parties. Procedures for regular maintenance and emergency repairs on the Compound shall be established by the IG after consultation with the Parties.

The state of Palestine shall be responsible for maintaining the security of the Compound and for ensuring that it will not be used for any hostile acts against Israelis or Israeli areas. The only arms permitted on the Compound shall be those carried by the Palestinian security personnel and the security detachment of the Multinational Presence.

In light of the universal significance of the Compound, and subject to security considerations and to the need not to disrupt religious worship or decorum on the site as determined by the Waqf, visitors shall be allowed access to the site. This shall be without any discrimination and generally be in accordance with past practice.

Transfer of Authority

At the end of the withdrawal period stipulated in Article 5/7, the state of Palestine shall assert sovereignty over the Compound.

The International Group and its subsidiary organs shall continue to exist and fulfill all the functions stipulated in this Article unless otherwise agreed by the two Parties.

The Wailing Wall

The Wailing Wall shall be under Israeli sovereignty.

The Old City:

Significance of the Old City

The Parties view the Old City as one whole enjoying a unique character. The Parties agree that the preservation of this unique character together with safeguarding and promoting the welfare of the inhabitants should guide the administration of the Old City.

The Parties shall act in accordance with the UNESCO World Cultural Heritage List regulations, in which the Old City is a registered site.

IVG Role in the Old City

Cultural Heritage

The IVG shall monitor and verify the preservation of cultural heritage in the Old City in accordance with the UNESCO World Cultural Heritage List rules. For this purpose, the IVG shall have free and unimpeded access to sites, documents, and information related to the performance of this function.

The IVG shall work in close coordination with the Old City Committee of the Jerusalem Coordination and Development Committee (JCDC), including in devising a restoration and preservation plan for the Old City.

Policing

The IVG shall establish an Old City Policing Unit (PU) to liaise with, coordinate between, and assist the Palestinian and Israeli police forces in the Old City, to defuse localized tensions and help resolve disputes, and to perform policing duties in locations specified in and according to operational procedures detailed in Annex X.

The PU shall periodically report to the IVG.

Either Party may submit complaints in relation to this clause to the IVG, which shall promptly act upon them in accordance with Article 16.


Free Movement within the Old City

Movement within the Old City shall be free and unimpeded subject to the provisions of this article and rules and regulations pertaining to the various holy sites.

Entry into and Exit from the Old City

Entry and exit points into and from the Old City will be staffed by the authorities of the state under whose sovereignty the point falls, with the presence of PU members, unless otherwise specified.

With a view to facilitating movement into the Old City, each Party shall take such measures at the entry points in its territory as to ensure the preservation of security in the Old City. The PU shall monitor the operation of the entry points.

Citizens of either Party may not exit the Old City into the territory of the other Party unless they are in possession of the relevant documentation that entitles them to. Tourists may only exit the Old City into the territory of the Party which they posses valid authorization to enter.

Suspension, Termination, and Expansion

Either Party may suspend the arrangements set forth in Article 6.7.iii in cases of emergency for one week. The extension of such suspension for longer than a week shall be pursuant to consultation with the other Party and the IVG at the Trilateral Committee established in Article 3/3.

This clause shall not apply to the arrangements set forth in Article 6/7/vi.

Three years after the transfer of authority over the Old City, the Parties shall review these arrangements. These arrangements may only be terminated by agreement of the Parties.

The Parties shall examine the possibility of expanding these arrangements beyond the Old City and may agree to such an expansion.

Special Arrangements

Along the way outlined in Map X (from the Jaffa Gate to the Zion Gate) there will be permanent and guaranteed arrangements for Israelis regarding access, freedom of movement, and security, as set forth in Annex X.

The IVG shall be responsible for the implementation of these arrangements

Without prejudice to Palestinian sovereignty, Israeli administration of the Citadel will be as outlined in Annex X.

Color-Coding of the Old City

A visible color-coding scheme shall be used in the Old City to denote the sovereign areas of the respective Parties.

Policing

An agreed number of Israeli police shall constitute the Israeli Old City police detachment and shall exercise responsibility for maintaining order and day-to-day policing functions in the area under Israeli sovereignty.

An agreed number of Palestinian police shall constitute the Palestinian Old City police detachment and shall exercise responsibility for maintaining order and day-to-day policing functions in the area under Palestinian sovereignty.

All members of the respective Israeli and Palestinian Old City police detachments shall undergo special training, including joint training exercises, to be administered by the PU.

A special Joint Situation Room, under the direction of the PU and incorporating members of the Israeli and Palestinian Old City police detachments, shall facilitate liaison on all relevant matters of policing and security in the Old City.

Arms

No person shall be allowed to carry or possess arms in the Old City, with the exception of the Police Forces provided for in this agreement. In addition, each Party may grant special written permission to carry or possess arms in areas under its sovereignty.

Intelligence and Security

The Parties shall establish intensive intelligence cooperation regarding the Old City, including the immediate sharing of threat information.

A trilateral committee composed of the two Parties and representatives of the United States shall be established to facilitate this cooperation.

Mount of Olives Cemetery:

The area outlined in Map X (the Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives) shall be under Israeli administration; Israeli law shall apply to persons using and procedures appertaining to this area in accordance with Annex X.

There shall be a designated road to provide free, unlimited, and unimpeded access to the Cemetery.

The IVG shall monitor the implementation of this clause.

This arrangement may only be terminated by the agreement of both Parties.

Special Cemetery Arrangements

Arrangements shall be established in the two cemeteries designated in Map X (Mount Zion Cemetery and the German Colony Cemetery), to facilitate and ensure the continuation of the current burial and visitation practices, including the facilitation of access.

The Western Wall Tunnel.

The Western Wall Tunnel designated in Map X shall be under Israeli administration, including:

Unrestricted Israeli access and right to worship and conduct religious practices.

Responsibility for the preservation and maintenance of the site in accordance with this Agreement and without damaging structures above, under IVG supervision.

Israeli policing.

IVG monitoring

The Northern Exit of the Tunnel shall only be used for exit and may only be closed in case of emergency as stipulated in Article 6/7

This arrangement may only be terminated by the agreement of both Parties.

Municipal Coordination

The two Jerusalem municipalities shall form a Jerusalem Co-ordination and Development Committee (“JCDC”) to oversee the cooperation and coordination between the Palestinian Jerusalem municipality and the Israeli Jerusalem municipality. The JCDC and its sub-committees shall be composed of an equal number of representatives from Palestine and Israel. Each side will appoint members of the JCDC and its subcommittees in accordance with its own modalities.

The JCDC shall ensure that the coordination of infrastructure and services best serves the residents of Jerusalem, and shall promote the economic development of the city to the benefit of all. The JCDC will act to encourage cross-community dialogue and reconciliation.

The JCDC shall have the following subcommittees:

A Planning and Zoning Committee: to ensure agreed planning and zoning regulations in areas designated in Annex X.

A Hydro Infrastructure Committee: to handle matters relating to drinking water delivery, drainage, and wastewater collection and treatment.

A Transport Committee: to coordinate relevant connectedness and compatibility of the two road systems and other issues pertaining to transport.

An Environmental Committee: to deal with environmental issues affecting the quality of life in the city, including solid waste management.

An Economic and Development Committee: to formulate plans for economic development in areas of joint interest, including in the areas of transportation, seam line commercial cooperation, and tourism,

A Police and Emergency Services Committee: to coordinate measures for the maintenance of public order and crime prevention and the provision of emergency services;

An Old City Committee: to plan and closely coordinate the joint provision of the relevant municipal services, and other functions stipulated in Article 6/7.

Other Committees as agreed in the JCDC.

Israeli Residency of Palestinian Jerusalemites

Palestinian Jerusalemites who currently are permanent residents of Israel shall lose this status upon the transfer of authority to Palestine of those areas in which they reside.

Transfer of authority

The Parties will apply in certain socio-economic spheres interim measures to ensure the agreed, expeditious, and orderly transfer of powers and obligations from Israel to Palestine. This shall be done in a manner that preserves the accumulated socio-economic rights of the residents of East Jerusalem.

http://www.geneva-accord.org/mainmenu/english