Israel, The Good Enemy

[shira]

Israel’s relationship to the Palestinians has always been globally approached with standardized heavy criticism made to Israel. The main charges waved in Israel’s face have always been “the Disapropriate use of force” and “discrimination”.

Israel’s critics, either willingly or out of ignorance, choose to overlook the way many Arab countries mistreat Palestinians. Some Arab countries are almost never blamed for what they have been doing to the Palestinians for decades. Such selective recognition of facts by Israel’s critics is bizarre when weighed by truth instead of myths.

In December of 2008, Israel launched operation “cast lead” against Hamas which was launching rockets on Southern Israel on a daily basis. This operation has resulted in the death of more than 1,400 Palestinians, many said to be civilians; an absolute tragedy, nonetheless, those criticizing Israel fail to recognize that the number of causalities is small comparing to Gaza’s population of 1.5 million, considering the high density of Gaza’s population per square kilometre, the number suggests the Israeli forces were very cautious in carrying out their attacks, despite the fact that they were chasing a moving target, Hamas militants. If Israeli forces were targeting Palestinian civilians, the number of the dead would have reached tens of thousands.

On comparison; in 1976, Lebanese militiamen butchered 2,000 Palestinians; almost wiping out the entire population of Tell al-Zaatar refugee camp within days. This was revisited again in 1982 in Sabra and Shatelah massacre; where, in less than four days, Lebanese militiamen killed thousands of women and children who posed no threat as most Palestinian fighters had left then to Tunisia. Two years ago, al-Jazeera satellite network aired rare footage of Palestinians running to Israeli soldiers for refuge from the massacre.

more...
http://qudosi.com/politics/64-mid-east--south-asia/932-israel-the-good-enemy-


About the author:
Mudar Zahran, Jordanian of a Palestinian heritage, is an academic who resides in the UK. Read his full bio...

[oberliner]

1. This author also compared Jordan's treatment of Palestinians to apartheid

Jordan, Dr. Peace and Mr. Apartheid

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=182474

[shira]

2. Truly a brave soul. n/t

[azurnoir]

5. Brave perhaps but more than willing to ignore historical context too

both the incidents in Lebanon happened in the context of a general civil war in that contry did they not and the massacre at the Sabra and Shatilla camps were "overseen" by IDF occupation forces were they not? "Odd" that he would leave that out

[shira]

6. Context? Palestinians are still treated like shit in Lebanon today, what's the excuse for that?

As well as a lack of basic human rights for Palestinians throughout the Arab world?

[azurnoir]

8. as you have pointed out the Arab world seems to have a problem with

"human rights" over all is that you feel Palestinians should be treated better than citizens of the countries in which they live as residents? I always find this quite "fascinating" that the so called "ProIsrael" side seems to require that countries some of which are themselves poverty stricken and unstable treat Palestinians better than their own citizens. Lebanon today is as we're told also somewhat unstable and a Palestinian State would cure some the problems encountered by Palestinians living in Lebanon today wouldn't you agree? As someone who has repeatedly claimed to so care about Palestinians one would think you would be putting more energy into pushing for a state that would make refugee status no longer the only option rather than complaining about how the refugees are treated

[shira]

10. You think Palestinians are treated as equals in their 'host' Arab countries? Are you kidding?

What kind of pro-Palestinian are you?

Even refugees within the West Bank's Balata camp are treated worse than other Palestinians under PA administration. They can't go to schools outside their camp, can't vote, and can't build outside their small camp.

Total apartheid, perpetuated by the PA to this day.

[azurnoir]

11. Did I say that no I did not what I said is that as you have pointed out

those countries do not treat their own citizens very well

[shira]

12. No, in addition to not treating their own citizens well they treat Palestinians even worse, not that

....their pro-Palestinian advocates who purport to care about Palestinians actually give a rip.

The OP speaks of Arab nations wanting the conflict to continue in order to perpetuate Palestinian misery. I would think pro-Palestinian advocates such as yourself would be outraged and do something about Palestinians throughout the Arab world....

:eyes:

[azurnoir]

14. Perhaps advocates such as myself feel that a Palestinian state is a more important step

to curing ills suffered by refugees, and some may feel that just possibly the whining about Arab countries is to divert from that fact bot I'm sure that's just a mistake, right?

[shira]

16. LOL...it's been 60 years. When do pro-Palestinian advocates like yourself start caring

...about Palestinians elsewhere and also WITHIN the Palestinian territories under Hamas and the PLO?

In the W.Bank's Balata refugee camp, real apartheid is happening where students cannot go to regular Palestinian schools and 'refugees' there cannot vote or build outside their 1 square kilometer prison.

Hamas is imposing sharia law in Gaza while oppressing the women there.

Why wait until there's a peace deal to start advocating for those Palestinians? :shrug:

It's more important to pile on, demonize, defame, slander, and slime Israel - right?

[azurnoir]

18. Yes demonize, defame, slander, and sliming the PLO do seem quite

important to you why is that are you attempting to delegitimize a Palestinian State before it's even born by preforming a political abortion of sorts as to the camps do you not think a State being declared would change the status of refugee's although I did note in my Google search the sudden "concern" for these people at sites such as Pajama's Media

Balata is an "interesting" place though

The Balata refugee camp is known for being a hotbed of extremism. Yet a day after the shooting attack, Haaretz was hard-pressed to find any passersby who were willing to express support for it. Fear of reprisals by PA security forces clearly stifles such sentiment to some extent, but in the past Balata residents were not reluctant to voice full support for suicide bombings in the heart of Israel. Today, given the arrest of hundreds of Hamas activists by PA security forces, some camp residents seem to think twice about supporting the killing of Jewish settlers; others totally reject it.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/what-good-did-this-do-us-1.311930

[shira]

19. You're dodging the main point - where are the pro-Palestinian advocates for Palestinians suffering

...under Hamas, the PLO, in Jordan, Lebanon, etc.?

You haven't shown you care in the slightest for their predicament, and worse, even though you know they have it bad you don't wish to criticize Arab governments for their actions.

Why?

[azurnoir]

20. Not taking your redirect well am I ? but thank you once again

as you are making my point for me on both counts
1 the absolute necessity for a Palestinian State
2 the attempt to delegitimize that state before it'd even born

also about the Balata Camp a your right the refugees in that camp are not allowed to vote in Nabluses municipal elections and the children there attend UNRWA schools however this is conveniently left out

Unlike other localities within the governorate (excluding refugee camps), the majority of the city's households are connected to a public sewage system (93%), with the reminaing 7% connected through cesspits.<84> The sewage system, established n the early 1950s, also connects the refugee camps of Balata, Askar and Ein Beit al-Ma'.<85> Pipe water is provided for 100% of the city's households, primarily through a public network (99.3%), but some residents receive water through a private system (0.7%).<84> The water network was established in 1932 by the British authorities and is fed by water from four nearby wells: Deir Sharaf, Far'a, al-Badan and Audala.<85>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nablus

[shira]

21. So criticizing the PA, Hamas for how they treat Palestinians is deligitimization in your view?

As to the refugees, they're not going back into Israel, so why wait until the conflict is resolved to accomodate them now?

[azurnoir]

25. Why do you throw in Hamas? They have not been mentioned

well until now , Hamas's treatment of their people leaves much to desired especially in the area of women's rights.
Why wait because once there is a state is established the status of the camps will be changed as will UNRWA's role

and IMO the context of your ever changing critcism of first all Arabs and then the PA is a wn attempt at deligitimiztion and a deflection, not to mention your statements about Balata could be seen as a bit misleading

[shira]

26. I'm bringing up all of the Palestinians Arab oppressors wondering why you refuse to criticize them.

How does the status of UNRWA and refugees prevent you from doing what you can NOW for Palestinians suffering under Arab regimes?

If the conflict goes on another 62 years, you advocate they just wait it out....suck it up? Nothing should be done about them? :shrug:

[azurnoir]

28. I have not refued to do anything I pointed out

that these countries questionable human eights records for all who reside within them it is you who seem to singling out only the Palestinians why is that don't you care about the others?

[shira]

29. You are refusing. It's not just Palestinians outside Israel and the territories but Palestinians

...within who are suffering under Hamas and the PLO who you absolutely cannot advocate for in fear of 'delegitimizing' the future Palestinian government.

You're not at all consistent with your "pro-Palestinian" advocacy.

Only those allegedly suffering under Israel are worthy of your attention.

[LeftishBrit]

23. I agree that they need their own state.

And I agree that Israel often mistreats Palestinians, and that other countries' behaviour cannot be an excuse for this.

At the same time, Israel's behaviour cannot be an excuse for other countries' treatment of Palestinians.

And it sometimes seems that when it comes to the Palestinian issue Israel gets criticized a lot by some people; the Palestinians get criticized a lot by other people; but the one group that often escapes criticism is the Arab states. It's not a deflection to comment on it. It would be a deflection to use Arab state (or Israeli, or Palestinian) behaviour as an excuse for not working to achieve a Palestinian state.

[azurnoir]

27. it has been frequently used as a deflection

by the poster I addressing perhaps you should read the comments I made prior to this one I asked why is it apprently expected that largely impoverished countries who's human rights records leave much to desired overall are expected to treat the Palestinians better than their own citizens

[shira]

30. No one is saying Arab regimes like Lebanon should treat Palestinians better than Lebanese citizens

It's just that they shouldn't be under apartheid conditions and treated much worse than the average Lebanese citizen.

And now you're saying why bother with Palestinians suffering in Lebanon when regular Lebanese citizens have it bad too?

:eyes:

[azurnoir]

31. You seem to be is it that you really do not care about all Arabs

just Palestinians

[shira]

34. I'm wondering why the so-called pro Palestinian contingent purports to care for Palestinians...

...but only when they're allegedly oppressed by Jews.

Never when they're oppressed outside the territories or within (under Hamas/PLO rule).

:eyes:

[bherrera]

3. But the issue is Israeli human rights abuses

I suppose your moral statement is that, since others abuse Palestinians, then Israel should be excused when it abuses Palestinians. What you may not understand is that Palestinians are refugees in a diaspora due to the ethnic cleansing they suffer at the hands of Zionists, who have forced them out of their land, and refuse their right to return to their homeland. This ethnic cleansing is a serious human right abuse, I refer you to the definition provided by

1) the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"ethnic cleansing, the attempt to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups"

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/194242/ethnic-cleansing

2) the United Nations, according to Wikipedia:

"Ethnic cleansing is a euphemism that has come to be used broadly to describe all forms of ethnically-motivated violence, ranging from murder, rape, and torture to the forcible removal of populations.<1> A 1993 United Nations Commission defined it more specifically as, "the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous."<1> The term entered English and international media usage in the early 1990s to describe war events in the former Yugoslavia, particularly Kosovo and Bosnia.

The term ethnic cleansing is not to be confused with genocide. These terms are not synonymous, yet the academic discourse considers both as existing in a spectrum of assaults on nations or religio-ethnic groups. Ethnic cleansing is similar to forced deportation or 'population transfer' whereas genocide is the "intentional murder of part or all of a particular ethnic, religious, or national group."<2>"

The following are references to the statements made by the current Israeli Foreign Minister at the United Nations:

"September 28, 2010 NEW YORK (JTA) -- Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu distanced itself from his Foreign Minister's plan that would transfer Israeli Arab towns to a future Palestinian state in exchange for annexing Israeli Settlements in the West Bank. It would redraw the borders of Israel to include several large Jewish Settlements in the West Bank and exclude large Israeli Arab towns,...."

http://celebrifi.com/gossip/Bibi-backs-away-from-Lieberman-population-exchange-plan-3635775.html

Haaretz, the Israeli Newspaper, said the following about Mr Lieberman:

“The choice of the most unrestrained and irresponsible man around for this job constitutes a strategic threat in its own right. Lieberman’s lack of restraint and his unbridled tongue, comparable only to those of Iran’s president, are liable to bring disaster down upon the entire region.”

Therefore, when we read these things in Europe, we tend to believe Israel is the wrong side, and we support the Palestinians, who are in this case, the persecuted people. Because Israel is a working theocracy, in which the majority can vote for the government, then many Israelis share this problem - they have Mr Lieberman in an important position, and the man is crazy. They should take care of it, if they want to earn a better reputation.

[shira]

4. No, that's not the issue. You need to read the article, especially the second half.

In addition, most of your post is complete nonsense.

[bherrera]

7. Nonsense?

Sometimes, information flows which one discards to be nonsense, because it does not fit the existing "reality". The reality is hard to accept, and thus one, as a human being, is unable to face this. I have seen this truth, and try to understand that reality is a thing we build. It is like a house, made out of the wood and materials we wish to use, and shaped in the form we want to have.

There is a house, which in my reality is shaped one way, and in your reality is shaped a different way. The reality I stated is known to many. it is the shape of the house we see. And this shape tells us the Israelis are ethnic cleansers, as defined by the United Nations. Whether Arabs abuse Palestinians is not that important, because Palestinians would not be in the land of these Arabs if the Israelis did not ethnically cleanse them from their homeland.

I understand this ethnic cleansing is a common thing in human history. It is a bad thing many of our ancestors did. But this does not mean we should dance around and build houses for a false reality, when at the same time we deny the reality which exists. This is the message of many great artists, men like George Orwell in 1984. And remember the slogan he used in his book:

"Strength through Unity. Unity through Faith"

I have a belief, that religion is used to control people, and make them do terrible things to other human beings. In this conflict, religion has been used by both sides to justify very bad acts.

[shira]

9. Yeah and your comment about "whether Arabs abuse Palestinians is not that important..." is a hoot.

You wrote:

"Whether Arabs abuse Palestinians is not that important, because Palestinians would not be in the land of these Arabs if the Israelis did not ethnically cleanse them from their homeland. "

1. Although Israel forced some Arabs out during the war, most Palestinians were encouraged to flee by their leaders...

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=1102
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=568&fld_id=568&doc_id=1645
http://www.palwatch.org/site/modules/videos/pal/videos.aspx?fld_id=140&doc_id=983
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=567

2. As to your quote, are you saying Palestinian human rights violations in other Arab lands isn't a big deal and no one should give a shit because Israel is at fault for them being subject to those conditions? That's really fucked up. It's Israel's fault, blame Israel? No sense holding Arab governments accountable? :shrug:

[bherrera]

13. That reality you have is built for you

Some were encouraged by their leaders, others were terrorized out of their home by Zionists. But this argument you make is empty. It doesn't matter if they left on their own. The ethics and morals are clear: Even if they left on their own, those who wish to return should be able to do so. The denial of this basic right is a violation of human rights. And thus Israel stands condemned, as an ethnic cleanser.

So as you see, our realities are quite different. You defend ethnic cleansing, because you have been given the materials and the instructions to build a house, in which reality can not intrude. To free yourself, you have to accept the possibility that, your whole life, you have lived a lie.

[shira]

15. If full RoR is a basic right, there'd be no reason to negotiate this right in peace talks.

No country is under obligation to accept back a population - as well as all their offspring for many generations afterward - that is very likely to be hostile and against living in peace within said nation.

Ergo, the reason there have been tens of millions of refugees since WW2 with no basic "right" that they must be allowed to return, along with all their offspring, to their original country. No basic right. Not one bit of advocacy for all those tens of millions.

http://www.mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8878&sid=57019cc9a1037bc18b666dabf464dfa3

Great article there, you should read it.

[Mosby]

17. So is Spain going to take responsibility for ethnically cleansing

the "Moriscos" and offer citizenship to their descendants? How about the Jews that were killed and expelled a couple centuries earlier?

Unlike what Spain did in the 1600s to the Muslims, Israel was fighting a defensive war of survival in 1948, against an enemy that wanted to kill every Jewish man, woman and child. The fact that many arabs in the area left during the war could hardly be considered ethnic cleansing, in fact they left thinking that they would return after all the Jews were killed.

[Jim Sagle]

33. 'Right of return' is racist Jew hate on its face.

Such a right has NEVER been insisted on in ANY of the THOUSANDS of wars throughout history. Penning these Palestinian pawns like VEAL for 60 years, in defiance of ALL RECORDED HISTORY, solely to destroy the world's only Jewish state, is a protracted exercise in exterminationism.

[shira]

35. Right, what other way is there to see it? The PLO/Hamas elected by Arab majority after full RoR

...would be far worse than any coalition put together by the likes of Avigdor Lieberman and Moshe Feiglin.

But we can always pretend justice is being served and all will have equal rights, hmm?

:eyes:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

22. 'Whether Arabs abuse Palestinians is not that important...'

'because Palestinians would not be in the land of these Arabs if the Israelis did not ethnically cleanse them from their homeland'

A somewhat oversimplified description of the history - but in any case, how does that make 'whether Arabs abuse Palestinians not that important'?

Would you say that it's not that important whether America or Britain abuses refugees and asylum seekers because they wouldn't be refugees if their own countries hadn't abused them? That's the same sort of argument.

[shira]

24. Surprising what admissions you'll get when you dig a little deeper, huh? n/t

[Jim Sagle]

32. 'the issue is Israeli human rights abuses'. You have issues for sure.

[Crunchy Frog]

37. But look mommy. They're doing it too!

[shira]

38. That's not what he's saying. Read the entire article, written by a liberal Arab Israeli. n/t

[txaslftist]

39. Tough break for the Palestinians...

to have Israelis for neighbors.

But Israel is the "good enemy" because of the USS Liberty, theft of our nuclear secrets, AIPAC and Pollard.

Doesn't have anything to do with the unlucky Palestinians.