Progressives Should Support Israel

[shira]

The progressive movement has been tarred by a vocal minority that seeks to criticize Israel at every opportunity. It's time for the progressive community to stand up and show its support for Israel.

Israel is a progressive's dream: "Universal education, universal health care, equal rights, minority rights protections, strong activist courts, and gays and lesbians openly serving in the military." As progressives, we should be outraged by the way the Arabs, including the Palestinians, treat women, gays and other minorities. We should be outraged that the Palestinians demand that no Jews should be allowed to live in the West Bank, even as over one million Palestinians live within pre-1967 Israel. We should be outraged by the beheadings and honor killings. Israel is not perfect, but Israel holds itself to its own standards, to progressive standards.

Israel is accused by some of apartheid. Yet Arab Israelis "can be found on the Supreme Court, in the Knesset (parliament), in ambassadorial positions, as senior officers in the police and army, as mayors, as deputy-speakers of the Knesset and even as government ministers and deputy ministers. Prominent Arab Israelis can be found in almost every sphere of Israeli life, including in the medical fields, media and playing on Israel's national soccer team." Whatever an apartheid state is, it's not Israel.

That's all well and good, but what about the "occupation"? What about ending the conflict between Israel and its neighbors? Progressives are on the side of peace. So is Israel. There would be no "occupation" if Jordan had not attacked Israel in 1967, and there would be no "occupation" if Palestinian leadership had accepted either of Israel's offers in the last decade to withdraw from nearly all of Judea and Samaria (the West Bank).

more...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-sheffey/progressives-should-suppo_b_842259.html

[shira]

1. Talking with progressives about Israel

Universal education, universal health care, equal rights, minority rights protections, strong activist courts, and gays and lesbians openly serving in the military: Israel sounds like a progressive’s dream. Until I brought this up to several Democratic clubs, they had no idea that Israel was founded by a bunch of socialists on kibbutzim. No other single country in the Middle East has the complete set of social and civil rights that Israel does.

If Israel was a “creation” of colonialist powers, why is the country so liberal when it comes to activist courts and civil rights?

http://www.jewishjournal.com/opinion/article/talking_with_progressives_about_israel_20110323/

[no_hypocrisy]

2. I might have been likely to have agreed 30-40 years ago

when Israel was more Labor Party dominant and the democracy fostered in kibbutzes reigned.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

7. I think you must be thinking of some other country.

The idea that Israel has equal rights and minority rights protections is just laughable - Israel is the only Western nation with explicitly and proudly racist laws. Hell, Palestinians aren't even allowed back into the country despite the fact that they and their ancestors for generations were born there.

And the so-called "universal" education provided to most Arabs is extremely sketchy at best.

And the claim that Israel's courts are strong is made a nonsense of by the number of demolition orders that get ignored, and the number of settlements that even Israeli courts acknowledge are illegal that the government makes no attempt to remove.



You're quite right that on most social issues not related to the Arabs Israel is relatively liberal, at least compared to the US, though (most of the things you list as evidence in its favour are relatively standard in Europe).

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

18. It should be noted, however,

that the percentage of Arabs in Israel is far higher than the percentage in Europe, so that one would automatically expect that there would be more Arabs involved in government and culture in the former than the latter.

About 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs. So far as I know, the only country in Europe with a large Arab population is France, because of France's colonial history in Algeria and Morocco. It is hard to get an accurate estimate of the exact proportion of French citizens of Arab origin, but it is somewhere between 5 and 10% - certainly much lower than in Israel. Other Europaean countries have very few Arab citizens - some have a significant *Muslim* minority, but most Europaean Muslims are of South Asian or Turkish descent; not Arabs.

It is true that most Europaean countries are very much less than stellar in their treatment of their own ethnic minority groups; but direct comparisons with regard to the position of Arabs in particular are rather misleading.

[shira]

19. What's misleading is the post I responded to. The crap spewed on this forum...

...is hateful nonsense to Israelis who live in reality over there. The Israel described here by Israel's enemies is nothing like what real Israelis experience.

This ongoing campaign to villainize Israeli society is disgusting.

[inademv]

21. I think poorly of any country or society

that holds dogmatic religious ideals over realistic secular ideals.

[LeftishBrit]

23. Israel's founders mainly held 'realistic secular ideals' and the society is predominantly secular

There is a problem with secular democracy being undermined from within by a strident minority of religious right-wingers - as well as secular ultra-nationalist right-wingers. But Israel is not a theocracy.

Palestinian independence and democracy is also threatened, not just by Israeli interests, but by a clash within their own society between those of 'dogmatic religious' and 'realistic secular' ideals. Hamas certainly belongs to the former category.

[inademv]

27. Israel's entire existence is based on theological reasoning

[inademv]

20. Aren't most/all of those people jewish?

since "Arab" isn't a religious identity...

[shira]

22. Israeli Arabs are mostly Muslim, Christian, or Druze - not Jewish. n/t

[inademv]

24. I ask because I couldn't find that information

on any of the people shown in that graphic.

[stockholmer]

35. +1

[sellitman]

3. One of the best posts ever in this forum

It will probably fall on deaf ears here but thanks!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[King_David]

10. Explain please nt

[sellitman]

11. What facts are you disputing?

The post had many. Facts don't have a Jewish or a Palestinian bias.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

14. It had many false claims - see my other post in this thread.

[shira]

15. It was spot on - see #12 above. n/t

[leveymg]

4. You're crossing a picket line by linking to HuffPo. A very un-progressive thing to do.

Read the letter calling for a strike by the President of the Newspaper Writers of America, here: http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/newspaper-guild-president-writes-open-letter-to-arianna-huffington_b26328

[inademv]

5. Utter tripe

Perhaps when Israel was originally founded I might agree but then the premise would be inconsistent. Israel is currently and constantly slipping further into a theocracy, something which most liberals are diametrically opposed to.

[ixion]

8. *facepalm*

Yeah, right. :eyes:

[Recursion]

9. 30 or 40 years ago, maybe

Take it up with the Israeli government; they burned through a lot of my goodwill during the intifadahs.

[daa]

13. Boy don't you complain about gentrification is this country

how about some rich guy with guns bulldozes your house, kills you wi8fe and kids and then you say support them? You're kidding right. This is the same Israel that boarded a ship on the hight seas and murdered people, and then got caught putting out a fake film about the event?

One Arab on the Israeli supreme court does not make it equal any more than
Clarence Thomas on the supreme court makes this a great equal opportunity country for blacks.

[shira]

16. Did Hamas or Fatah supply you with those ridiculous talking points? n/t

[daa]

17. Very intelligent remarks not sure how they make YOUR point nt

[Purveyor]

25. So Progressives are supposed to support an "apartheid State"? Yeah...right!

[shira]

26. See #12 above and try arguing it's an apartheid state, okay? n/t

[Purveyor]

28. There is no 'arguing'. It is what it is... eom

[daa]

29. +1

[oberliner]

30. Israel Is Not an Apartheid State

In the State of Israel all citizens – Jew and Arab alike – are equal before the law. Israel has none of the apartheid legislative machinery devised to discriminate against and to separate people. It has no Population Registration Act, no Group Areas Act, no Mixed Marriages and Immorality Act, no Separate Representation of Voters Act, no Separate Amenities Act, no pass laws or any other of the myriad apartheid laws.

On the contrary: Israel is a vibrant liberal democracy which accords full political, civil and other human rights to all its people, including its one million-plus Arab citizens, many of whom hold positions of authority throughout the Jewish state – including that of cabinet minister, Knesset member and judge at every level of the judiciary, the Supreme Court included.

All citizens vote on the same voters’ roll in regular, multiparty elections, and there are Arab parties and Arab members of other parties in the Knesset. Due to Israel’s proportional representation system, Arab voters, although a minority, have often been partners in various coalition governments and influenced major long-term decisions affecting the country.

Arabs and Jews live and work together, share all public facilities, including, importantly, hospitals and schools, and also malls, buses, cinemas and parks. Israel protects religious freedom and has been very sensitive and respectful in its management of the holy sites of all religions, granting easy access to everyone.

Arab Israelis, like all their compatriots, can express themselves and act freely as members of a transparent and open, democratic society, where criticism of the government in an aggressively free press is the norm.

http://www.chiefrabbi.co.za/2008/08/israelnotapartheidstate/

A False Analogy

One reason is that the equivalence simply isn't true. Israel is not an apartheid state. Israel's human rights record in the occupied territories, its settlement policy, and its firm responses to terror may sometimes warrant criticism. And Prime Minister Ehud Olmert himself recently warned that Israel could face an apartheid-style struggle if it did not reach a deal with the Palestinians and end the occupation in the West Bank.<8>

But racism and discrimination do not form the rationale for Israel's policies and actions. Arab citizens of Israel can vote and serve in the Knesset; black South Africans could not vote until 1994.<9> There are no laws in Israel that discriminate against Arab citizens or separate them from Jews. Unlike the United Kingdom, Greece, and Norway, Israel has no state religion, and it recognizes Arabic as one of its official languages.

Whereas apartheid was established through a series of oppressive laws that governed which park benches we could sit on, where we could go to school, which areas we were allowed to live in, and even whom we could marry, Israel was founded upon a liberal and inclusive Declaration of Independence. South Africa had a job reservation policy for white people; Israel has adopted pro-Arab affirmative action measures in some sectors.

Israeli schools, universities and hospitals make no distinction between Jews and Arabs. An Arab citizen who brings a case before an Israeli court will have that case decided on the basis of merit, not ethnicity. This was never the case for blacks under apartheid. Moreover, Israel respects freedom of speech and human rights. Its newspapers are far more independent, outspoken, and critical of the government than our newspapers in present-day, post-apartheid South Africa, let alone those of old.

http://www.z-word.com/z-word-essays/franchising-%25E2%2580%259Capartheid%25E2%2580%259D%253A-why-south-africans-push-the-analogy.html?page=2

And from former President Carter:

"Israel is a wonderful democracy with equal treatment of all citizens whether Arab or Jew."

[Purveyor]

31. Jimmy Carter: Israel's 'Apartheid' Policies Worse Than South Africa's

Former president stands by new book despite criticism, says it is meant to stimulate debate in U.S.

By Haaretz Service

Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter said in remarks broadcast Monday that Israeli policy in the West Bank represented instances of apartheid worse even that those that once held sway in South Africa.

Carter's comments were broadcast on Israel Radio, which played a tape of an interview with the ex-president, but did not specify to whom Carter was speaking. But has made similar remarks in recent interviews, such as one to CBC television.

"When Israel does occupy this territory deep within the West Bank, and connects the 200-or-so settlements with each other, with a road, and then prohibits the Palestinians from using that road, or in many cases even crossing the road, this perpetrates even worse instances of apartness, or apartheid, than we witnessed even in South Africa."

Carter said his new book, "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" was meant to spark U.S. discussion of Israeli policies. "The hope is that my book will at least stimulate a debate, which has not existed in this country. There's never been any debate on this issue, of any significance."

MORE...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/jimmy-carter-israel-s-apartheid-policies-worse-than-south-africa-s-1.206865

[shira]

33. West Bankers are a different nationality altogether - not apartheid. Purvey some facts now, OK? n/t

[azurnoir]

34. let's check some facts Arabs in the West and Gaza

are of the same 'nationality' as Arabs in Israel for the most part what differs is citizenship status

[LeftishBrit]

36. Carter was talking about the West Bank - not calling Israel itself an 'apartheid state'

One can oppose the occupation, and the way it is practiced, without saying absolutely EVERYTHING about Israel is evil.

Creation of bogeynations is always dangerous. 'Israel is an apartheid state' is a horse out of the same stable as Bush's 'axis of evil'.

[oberliner]

37. Jimmy Carter: "The book is not written about Israel at all"

Most of the people that seem to be critical have not read the book, or they haven’t referred to anything inside Palestine, and the book is not written about Israel at all. I know that Israel is a wonderful democracy with equal treatment of all citizens whether Arab or Jew. And so I very carefully avoided talking about anything inside Israel. The book is about Palestine and what’s going on inside the occupied territories...

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/12/13/carters-rhetoric-of-apartheid/

[azurnoir]

32. yes yes equal treatment as shown here with these 2 new laws

With the "Nakba Law" passed late Tuesday, the state would be able to fine local communities and other state-funded groups for holding events that mark what the Arab community calls the Nakba, which means catastrophe, referring to the creation of the Jewish state of Israel. Fines, deducted from a group's operating budget, would equal up to three times the event's sponsorship cost; repeat violations would double the fines.

The law, which was enacted by a vote of 37 to 25, also applies to activities which deny that Israel is a Jewish state as well as the country's democratic character, and support armed struggle against the state or terror acts against Israel.

<snip>

The Knesset late Tuesday also passed the Admissions Committee Law allowing Negev and Galilee Jewish communities with fewer than 400 families to vet possible residents with an admission committee. Potential residents could be rejected if they do not fit into the community's social or cultural way of life.

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/03/23/3086536/knesset-passes-nakba-law

the second law could be used not only against non-Jews but also against GLBT families regardless of religion

[Shaktimaan]

38. That's just what carter said...

I don't think anyone HERE would argue that Israel is lacking in bigotry or discrimination against Arabs. That said, it has been the general policy of the nation's courts to uphold a standard that gives Arab Israelis equal rights under the law. How these lofty ideals play out in reality is a different matter altogether.

Here I would just be aware of falling into the trap of criticizing Israel for issues that no nation has yet managed to resolve to any degree approaching acceptability. Yes, bigotry and racism exist in Israel, just as they exist everywhere. But the record clearly shows that Israel is working to attain equality, not an easy task anywhere, but it is an especially difficult process in Israel considering the fact that the decades long conflict there is split down ethnic lines. Despite this, Israel's courts have almost always ruled in favor of supporting the equal rights of all of its minority citizens.

Real equality in Israel will be a complex task to accomplish considering how different groups have different obligations under the law. For example, Arab Israelis aren't made to do compulsory service in the army. Should they be, considering they would likely be fighting other Arabs in the event of a war? Right now participation is voluntary, and very few volunteer. Understandably so. But this rite of passage is an intrinsic part of Israeli culture. Exempting Arabs from it serves to further drive a wedge between the cultures sharing the state. But how can we rightly ask Arabs to patrol the OPT as IDF soldiers, aiding in the oppression of their own people, perhaps even their own families? I bring this up purely as an example of the obstacles facing true equality in Israel.