What was the procedure for scrambling jets on 9/11?

[ramblin_dave]

The following source makes the claim that the "longstanding procedure for scrambling jets whenever air traffic control reported a suspected or actual hijacking" had been changed "by an instruction from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff issued on June 1, 2001".

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/MediumRare/40.htm

The Aviation Week article mentioned in the above source is here:

http://www.aviationnow.com/content/publication/awst/20020603/avi_stor.htm

Note this paragraph:

"I told him to scramble; we'll get clearances later," Arnold said. His instincts to act first and get permission later were typical of U.S. and Canadian commanders that day. On Sept. 11, the normal scramble-approval procedure was for an FAA official to contact the National Military Command Center (NMCC) and request Pentagon air support. Someone in the NMCC would call Norad's command center and ask about availability of aircraft, then seek approval from the Defense Secretary--Donald H. Rumsfeld--to launch fighters.

This describes a much more elaborate procedure than I had assumed all along, one that definitely would slow things down, especially if Rumsfeld had to approve.

Was a much simpler "longstanding procedure" actually changed in June 2001 to a more complicated one as alleged in the above article?

[Old and In the Way]

1. Well, Rumsfield was outside helping with triage of the Pentagon victims,

or inside the operations room on telcon if Clarke is to be believed.

[DulceDecorum]

12. Matthew 18:12-13

Matthew 18

12"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?
13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.

Paul Gonzalez, 46, a budget analyst, smashed a hole in the wall and crawled out. He was pulled to safety by Donald Rumsfeld who, although ordered by the secret service to leave the Pentagon, had refused.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/16/watt16.xml

One night one little sheep was missing. Somehow it had strayed away and became lost. If the shepherd left it and didn't go look for it, it would surely be killed by some wild animals. The shepherd did not want to leave it. He left the other sheep and went to find it. He went searching until he found the lost one.
http://www.bereans.org/lenny/PrimaryLessons/TheParableOfTheLostSheep.html


Q: Mr. Secretary?

Rumsfeld: Yes, Bob?

Q: The casuality figure you referred to I assume is the 800 number that was provided by the Arlington County Fire Department.

Rumsfeld: It is.

Q: And you say it's considerably high. We've heard from the military --

Rumsfeld: I said I hope and pray that it is.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2001/t09122001_t0912sd.html

[LARED]

13. Good work DD

You caught him. Well maybe not.

Statement of Rumsfeld

First, we currently believe and are certainly hopeful that the number of casualties being reported in the press is high. As you know from your own observation out there, the work is still going forward, and we won't know for some time precise numbers. But from everything that we currently know, the estimate that's been widely reported is considerably high, and we certainly pray that that's the case.

Question from reporter.

Q: Mr. Secretary?

Rumsfeld: Yes, Bob?

Q: The casuality figure you referred to I assume is the 800 number that was provided by the Arlington County Fire Department.

Rumsfeld: It is.

Q: And you say it's considerably high. We've heard from the military --

Rumsfeld: I said I hope and pray that it is.


It is obvious that when taken in context, he was hoping the the reported number of causilties was over estimated.

So please stop doing this. You put me in a position of having to defend the nutcase Rumsfeld, in a effort to defend the truth.

[Abe Linkman]

15. Softening all over.

It appears that at least some supporters of the "Cave People Did It" Conspiracy theory are beginning to modify their strategy. "Hey-sure, I never said there's video evidence of Osama sitting at the Master Control Panel, controlling the events of 9-11...and yes, I agree that maybe Rumsfeld isn't the picture of integrity (but that doesn't mean that he was actually involved). So, I'm with you (sort of). See?"

[LARED]

16. Clue me in

What are you talking about?

[demodewd]

14. Both?

Maybe he did both.

[papau]

2. Cape Cod News had the Otis Air -no order to shoot down - story - that

went to print without that quote from the ground crew (who "heard it from the pilots") but still did have the timing and procedure story -

a story that put the lie to Pentagon Testimony to Congress that the planes went at max speed to NY - but just got there late - since max speed and they get there is plenty of time - and given the late arrival and the starting time would have had to have been told to power down as no shoot down order from Bush would be coming.

I mean - like Bush had this photo op and needed to read a book to kids -

And our National Media says nothing.

By the way - the pilots are no longer talking to anyone - on or off the record - and I am not even sure the original ground crew with the loose lips is still there!

[indepat]

3. Did not Rumsfeld claim to have been sitting in his Pentagon office

the morning of 9-11 unaware of the attacks until the plane had hit the Pentagon? If this is true it would seem no one could get through to him, so if he could not be reached, then he could not give his required authority. Velly, velly interesting: inquiring minds want to know if this is the mother of all smoking guns?

[soothsayer]

7. doesn't rumdum have one of those stand-up desks

cuz sitting makes you lazy
(seriously)

[havocmom]

4. Don't know why they were so slow on the 11th

They sure were up and ready when Webber's jet went off course.

And they were up and ready when a rancher in my area needed a part for a tractor on 9-13. It is fair to speculate the rancher didn't even know about the nation wide no fly order as people out on ranches are generally pretty busy and not exactly news hounds. Days may go by without turning on TV or radio (if one even gets reception).

The rancher needed a part ASAP. The drive to town and back would be 4-6 hours. Like many people in very remote places, he owns a small plane. Makes emergency trips to town faster. He took the plane up. Within 13 minutes he had fighter escorts telling him to land NOW (on road or flat field) or be shot down.

Those fighters had to come from further out than any squad in the NY, DC area would have to go. True, the fighters were probably already up but they have a huge area to patrol in the Montana/Dakota air space. I am sure they didn't just happen to be hovering over this guy's ranch when his Cessna took off.

Indeed, why doesn't the nation ask, "where were the fighters?" on 9-11. Those guys are fast. Their support is fast. Their job is to be fast. Somebody made them slow up response.

edit: typo

[Old and In the Way]

9. For all the chatter, there was no heightened alert.

14 planes on alert for the entire continental US. $400BB/year military budget and 14 planes?

And what about the general that said the Otis jets were flying like scalded apes....at about 1/2 their rated airspeed? Or the general that said the radar was pointed the wrong way on 9/11?

Or the Ohio base commander that was asked for intercept permission and munitions requirements. He was told to arm the planes with "everything you've got"...thereby assuring a delayed response. Why would ATA missles be required for the initial interceptors? Wouldn't the intent be to get up and see what was going on in the cockpit? I believe that the person who gave the orders to max load the planes there is deceased.

And why does Gen.Meyer, in charge that day and AWOL during the entire attack on 9/11, get promoted to JCS 2 weeks later?

[CaptainClark23]

5. Here is the referenced document

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

[Bolo Boffin]

6. And an explanation of the referenced document

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x10594#10686

The procedure that solicits Rumsfeld's approval is not operative in situations requiring immediate response. As is clear on that day, the pilots started suiting up when they heard about the offcourse jets, no permission required. That's how jets were in the air 6 minutes after the official request came through - the pilots were walking up to their jets at that time.

[LARED]

8. The changes to this long standing procedure are as follow

The difference between CJCSI 3610.01A, 1 June 2001, and CJCSI 3610.01, 31 July 1997. is as follows:

7. Summary of Changes
a. Unmanned vehicles (UAV, ROV) added to the description of
possible derelict airborne objects.
b. Statutory Authority for Responding to Aircraft Piracy enclosure
removed and added to reference list.
c. In various places throughout the document, “USELEMNORAD” was
replaced with “NORAD.”
d. FAA Order 7610.4J, 3 November 1998, “Special Military
Operations,” was added as a reference.

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

Seems to be a pretty ordinary revison to me.

For those interested in FAA Order 7610.4J

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/terrorism/chp7.html

[OneBlueSky]

10. doesn't matter who was responsible . . .

the point is that there was no excuse for an hour and a half delay in launching jets to protect the Capitol . . . and, when the order was finally given, for launching them from a base over a hundred miles away rather from Andrews AFB right outside Washington . . . this is a MAJOR screwup which certainly has all the appearances of being an intentional stand-down . . . it would also be among the easiest issues to investigate, but no one seems to care enough to do that . . . one of many inconsistencies and contradictions that make me keep my tinfoil hat handy . . .

[impe]

11. Agreed

Remember the american incident in the 80's when one of our planes invaded Russian airspace by a mile and was shot down after no contact by the pilots? At that time, there was a wealth of information on US policy and wayward jets, that is until it happened for real.