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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:26 PM
Original message
CIA and torture
Two excellent articles about the Bush administration's post 9/11 interrogation program:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/02/14/050214fa_fact6">Link

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/guantanamo200805?printable=true¤tPage=all">Link

I would go a step further than these journalists and note the disconnect between bizarre CIA conduct in the lead up to 9/11 and post 9/11 advocacy of torture by some of the very same officials involved in the pre-9/11 conduct. The 9/11 Commission refused to play the blame game which meant that Tenet got away with garbage excuses like watchlisting procedure problems. Goss and Hayden refused to declassify the CIA IG report. Only by way of an amendment in the Improving America's Security Act of 2007 was the executive summary declassified. Meaning to date we still don't know what actually happened at Alec Station in the lead up to 9/11.

A CIA officer known as Rich B, who is now chief of the CIA’s station in Kabul, Afghanistan, objects to the FBI interviewing high-ranking al-Qaeda detainee Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi. The FBI obtained access to al-Libi after he was handed over to the US, and is obtaining some information from him about Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid, who will be prosecuted in the US (see December 19, 2001). However, according to FBI agent Jack Cloonan, “for some reason, the CIA chief of station in Kabul is taking issue with our approach.” CIA Director George Tenet learns of Rich B’s complaints and insists that al-Libi be turned over to the CIA (see January-April 2002), which promptly puts him on a plane to Egypt (see January 2002 and after), where he is tortured and makes false statements (see February 2002). Rich B was in charge of the CIA’s bin Laden unit on 9/11 and has only recently become chief of its Kabul station. The FBI, which has long experience interviewing suspects, will continue in its attempts to use rapport-building techniques (see Mid-April 2002), whereas the CIA will employ harsher techniques, despite not having much experience with interviews (see Mid-April 2002).

Link


We have been told the torture was needed to attain crucial intel regarding a possible follow up attack. Why should we believe this considering some of the key officials who have made this argument have never accounted for their pre-9/11 conduct?



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Diane_nyc Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for posting this.
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Good article by Coleen Rowley and Ray McGovern
They simply aren't buying the notion that the torture program was implemented in good faith. If journalists like Mayer delved into the bizarre conduct at Alec Station and the FBI ITOS in the lead up to 9/11 then she might not be so quick to give the torture advocates the benefit of the doubt.

It was hard to know whether to laugh or to cry. John Ashcroft insisting that according to “the reports I have heard, and I have no reason to disbelieve them, these techniques are very valuable.”

Ashcroft’s source? He indicated that it is none other than former CIA Director George Tenet, who wrecked the CIA by creating a Gestapo in the operations directorate and cultivating fawning boot-lickers among managers of analysis.

To say Tenet’s reputation for truthfulness leaves much to be desired would be the kind of self-evident revelation that CIA analysts were accustomed to assigning to their tongue-in-cheek “Great Moments in Intelligence” file.

Link


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. just a little note





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KJF Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Some interesting questions
What was Scheuer's role in renditions before he was fired?

What was Rich B's role in renditions before (a) after he became chief of Alec Station in late spring/early summer 1999, (b) after his position was upgraded in 2000?

When was Rich B station chief in Pakistan?

We really need a list of renditions the CIA did before 9/11.
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What are you expecting to find in relation to Scheuer/Rich B.
and renditions before 9/11?
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KJF Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Scheuer + Rich B
Scheuer has sometimes talked about renditions before 9/11 in the media. For example for the trial of the Albanian returnees at least some of the people rendered by the US were related to Islamic Jihad, which was Scheuer's beat. What was the relationship between Alec Station and the Renditions Branch? The CIA OIG summary criticises coordination between them for a time, so presumably Renditions was not a part of Alec. However, when Rich B's position was upgraded in the first half of 2000, did he get authority over Renditions - it would be a logical thing for him to get, but I haven't seen any confirmation of this anywhere.

What renditions were there before 9/11? Yousef, Kamsi, the guys from Albania, and the ones after the embassy bombings.

P. 487 (n187) of the 9/11 CR says that 32 people were rendered between July 1998 and October 1999 and more than half were AQ.

"Former CIA director George Tenet has testified that prior to 11 September 2001, the CIA had rendered approximately 70 terrorists to justice around the world."
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0748-e.htm

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KJF Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Scheuer
Scheuer told the House

The CIA’s Rendition Program began in late summer, 1995. I authored it, and then ran and managed it against al-Qaeda leaders and other Sunni Islamists from August, 1995, until June, 1999.
http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/34712.pdf


That is pretty conclusive in terms of Scheuer's involvement, although there must also have been a manager of the Renditions Branch from 1997, as that was a separate entity.

Silverstein says regarding James (a.k.a. "Rich B"):

He oversaw Alec Station (the unit charged with hunting Osama bin Laden, which was disbanded late last year) as well as the CTC branch that directed renditions.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/01/meet-the-cias-new-2007-01-28


Which is certainly interesting, plus if Scheuer was helping run it, then his successor should have just picked up the baton.

I like this too:

The CTC's chief of operations argued for creating hit teams of case officers and CIA paramilitaries that would covertly infiltrate countries in the Middle East, Africa and even Europe to assassinate people on the list, one by one.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101644_pf.html


According to Silverstein, Rich B was chief of operations at the CTC around this time, and hit teams assassinating people certainly sounds like him.
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Stephen Grey has a list of known renditions
in his book Ghost Plane and also interviewed Scheuer about his role in the rendition program. Scheuer makes a big deal out of saying everything CIA did was vetted by lawyers.

Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, was Mr. Rizzo’s chief antagonist on the committee. Mr. Wyden said he hoped “the administration’s next nominee for the position demonstrates greater respect for the rule of law and a firmer commitment to making sure that our nation’s counterterrorism programs have the strong legal foundation that they deserve.”

Link


Addington, Bybee, Yoo, Haynes and Gonzales are all lawyers. The interrogation tactics aren't legal simply because some lawyers come up with some BS legal justification. Scheuer also says that CIA officials feared that policymakers would scapegoat CIA down the road for the torture program. I agree with him here because politicians will scapegoat anyone to cover themselves. That said, it seems CTC officials (like Rich B.) were advocates of the harsh interrogation tactics.

We have Suskind and Mayer who both disapprove of the torture but suggest that it should be understood in the context of extreme panic felt by policymakers after 9/11. I read the first couple of chapters of Mayer's book and she covers the Malaysia period but pretty much gives CIA the benefit of the doubt. I love the way some journalists appear to buy the absurd notion that cable traffic/watchlisting procedures explain CIA failure in relation to 9/11. To Mayer's credit she mentions the bizarre incident involving FBI agent Doug Miller. One wonders why Mayer didn't think CIA officials would follow up (with say a phone call) considering the importance of the information. In the months leading up to 9/11, CIA repeatedly failed to share intel with the FBI. This indicates that we are talking about something beyond faulty cable traffic/watchlisting procedures. It's a huge deal because CIA conduct before 9/11 calls into question everything after 9/11, including the claim that torture was required to prevent follow up attacks.
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Diane_nyc Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Renditions before 9/11, according to The New Yorker, 2005
From the article http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/02/14/050214fa_fact6">Outsourcing Torture: The secret history of America’s “extraordinary rendition” program by Jane Mayer, The New Yorker, February 14, 2005, I've quoted, below, the sections dealing with renditions before 9/11/2001:

Rendition was originally carried out on a limited basis, but after September 11th, when President Bush declared a global war on terrorism, the program expanded beyond recognition—becoming, according to a former C.I.A. official, “an abomination.” What began as a program aimed at a small, discrete set of suspects—people against whom there were outstanding foreign arrest warrants—came to include a wide and ill-defined population that the Administration terms “illegal enemy combatants.” Many of them have never been publicly charged with any crime. Scott Horton, an expert on international law who helped prepare a report on renditions issued by N.Y.U. Law School and the New York City Bar Association, estimates that a hundred and fifty people have been rendered since 2001. Representative Ed Markey, a Democrat from Massachusetts and a member of the Select Committee on Homeland Security, said that a more precise number was impossible to obtain. “I’ve asked people at the C.I.A. for numbers,” he said. “They refuse to answer. All they will say is that they’re in compliance with the law.”

Although the full scope of the extraordinary-rendition program isn’t known, several recent cases have come to light that may well violate U.S. law. In 1998, Congress passed legislation declaring that it is “the policy of the United States not to expel, extradite, or otherwise effect the involuntary return of any person to a country in which there are substantial grounds for believing the person would be in danger of being subjected to torture, regardless of whether the person is physically present in the United States.”

...

The criminal prosecution of terrorist suspects has not been a priority for the Bush Administration, which has focussed, rather, on preventing additional attacks. But some people who have been fighting terrorism for many years are concerned about unintended consequences of the Administration’s radical legal measures. Among these critics is Michael Scheuer, a former C.I.A. counter-terrorism expert who helped establish the practice of rendition. Scheuer left the agency in 2004, and has written two acerbic critiques of the government’s fight against Islamic terrorism under the pseudonym Anonymous, the most recent of which, “Imperial Hubris,” was a best-seller.

Not long ago, Scheuer, who lives in northern Virginia, spoke openly for the first time about how he and several other top C.I.A. officials set up the program, in the mid-nineties. “It was begun in desperation, ” he told me. At the time, he was the head of the C.I.A.’s Islamic-militant unit, whose job was to “detect, disrupt, and dismantle” terrorist operations. His unit spent much of 1996 studying how Al Qaeda operated; by the next year, Scheuer said, its mission was to try to capture bin Laden and his associates. He recalled, “We went to the White House”—which was then occupied by the Clinton Administration—“and they said, ‘Do it.’ ” He added that Richard Clarke, who was in charge of counter-terrorism for the National Security Council, offered no advice. “He told me, ‘Figure it out by yourselves,’ ” Scheuer said. (Clarke did not respond to a request for comment.)

Scheuer sought the counsel of Mary Jo White, the former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, who, along with a small group of F.B.I. agents, was pursuing the 1993 World Trade Center bombing case. In 1998, White’s team obtained an indictment against bin Laden, authorizing U.S. agents to bring him and his associates to the United States to stand trial. From the start, though, the C.I.A. was wary of granting terrorism suspects the due process afforded by American law. The agency did not want to divulge secrets about its intelligence sources and methods, and American courts demand transparency. Even establishing the chain of custody of key evidence—such as a laptop computer—could easily pose a significant problem: foreign governments might refuse to testify in U.S. courts about how they had obtained the evidence, for fear of having their secret coöperation exposed. (Foreign governments often worried about retaliation from their own Muslim populations.) The C.I.A. also felt that other agencies sometimes stood in its way. In 1996, for example, the State Department stymied a joint effort by the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. to question one of bin Laden’s cousins in America, because he had a diplomatic passport, which protects the holder from U.S. law enforcement. Describing the C.I.A.’s frustration, Scheuer said, “We were turning into voyeurs. We knew where these people were, but we couldn’t capture them because we had nowhere to take them.” The agency realized that “we had to come up with a third party.”

The obvious choice, Scheuer said, was Egypt. The largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid after Israel, Egypt was a key strategic ally, and its secret police force, the Mukhabarat, had a reputation for brutality. According to a 2002 report, detainees were “stripped and blindfolded; suspended from a ceiling or doorframe with feet just touching the floor; beaten with fists, whips, metal rods, or other objects; subjected to electrical shocks; and doused with cold water sexually assaulted.” Hosni Mubarak, Egypt’s leader, who came to office in 1981, after President Anwar Sadat was assassinated by Islamist extremists, was determined to crack down on terrorism. His prime political enemies were radical Islamists, hundreds of whom had fled the country and joined Al Qaeda. Among these was Ayman al-Zawahiri, a physician from Cairo, who went to Afghanistan and eventually became bin Laden’s deputy.

In 1995, Scheuer said, American agents proposed the rendition program to Egypt, making clear that it had the resources to track, capture, and transport terrorist suspects globally—including access to a small fleet of aircraft. Egypt embraced the idea. “What was clever was that some of the senior people in Al Qaeda were Egyptian,” Scheuer said. “It served American purposes to get these people arrested, and Egyptian purposes to get these people back, where they could be interrogated.” Technically, U.S. law requires the C.I.A. to seek “assurances” from foreign governments that rendered suspects won’t be tortured. Scheuer told me that this was done, but he was “not sure” if any documents confirming the arrangement were signed.

A series of spectacular covert operations followed from this secret pact. On September 13, 1995, U.S. agents helped kidnap Talaat Fouad Qassem, one of Egypt’s most wanted terrorists, in Croatia. Qassem had fled to Europe after being linked by Egypt to the assassination of Sadat; he had been sentenced to death in absentia. Croatian police seized Qassem in Zagreb and handed him over to U.S. agents, who interrogated him aboard a ship cruising the Adriatic Sea and then took him back to Egypt. Once there, Qassem disappeared. There is no record that he was put on trial. Hossam el-Hamalawy, an Egyptian journalist who covers human-rights issues, said, “We believe he was executed.”

A more elaborate operation was staged in Tirana, Albania, in the summer of 1998. According to the Wall Street Journal, the C.I.A. provided the Albanian intelligence service with equipment to wiretap the phones of suspected Muslim militants. Tapes of the conversations were translated into English, and U.S. agents discovered that they contained lengthy discussions with Zawahiri, bin Laden’s deputy. The U.S. pressured Egypt for assistance; in June, Egypt issued an arrest warrant for Shawki Salama Attiya, one of the militants. Over the next few months, according to the Journal, Albanian security forces, working with U.S. agents, killed one suspect and captured Attiya and four others. These men were bound, blindfolded, and taken to an abandoned airbase, then flown by jet to Cairo for interrogation. Attiya later alleged that he suffered electrical shocks to his genitals, was hung from his limbs, and was kept in a cell in filthy water up to his knees. Two other suspects, who had been sentenced to death in absentia, were hanged.

On August 5, 1998, an Arab-language newspaper in London published a letter from the International Islamic Front for Jihad, in which it threatened retaliation against the U.S. for the Albanian operation—in a “language they will understand.” Two days later, the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were blown up, killing two hundred and twenty-four people.

The U.S. began rendering terror suspects to other countries, but the most common destination remained Egypt. The partnership between the American and the Egyptian intelligence services was extraordinarily close: the Americans could give the Egyptian interrogators questions they wanted put to the detainees in the morning, Scheuer said, and get answers by the evening. The Americans asked to question suspects directly themselves, but, Scheuer said, the Egyptians refused. “We were never in the same room at the same time.”

Scheuer claimed that “there was a legal process” undergirding these early renditions. Every suspect who was apprehended, he said, had been convicted in absentia. Before a suspect was captured, a dossier was prepared containing the equivalent of a rap sheet. The C.I.A.’s legal counsel signed off on every proposed operation. Scheuer said that this system prevented innocent people from being subjected to rendition. “Langley would never let us proceed unless there was substance,” he said. Moreover, Scheuer emphasized, renditions were pursued out of expedience—“not out of thinking it was the best policy.”

Since September 11th, as the number of renditions has grown, and hundreds of terrorist suspects have been deposited indefinitely in places like Guantánamo Bay, the shortcomings of this approach have become manifest. “Are we going to hold these people forever?” Scheuer asked. “The policymakers hadn’t thought what to do with them, and what would happen when it was found out that we were turning them over to governments that the human-rights world reviled.” Once a detainee’s rights have been violated, he says, “you absolutely can’t” reinstate him into the court system. “You can’t kill him, either,” he added. “All we’ve done is create a nightmare.”

On a bleak winter day in Trenton, New Jersey, Dan Coleman, an ex-F.B.I. agent who retired last July, because of asthma, scoffed at the idea that a C.I.A. agent was now having compunctions about renditions. The C.I.A., Coleman said, liked rendition from the start. “They loved that these guys would just disappear off the books, and never be heard of again,” he said. “They were proud of it.”

For ten years, Coleman worked closely with the C.I.A. on counter-terrorism cases, including the Embassy attacks in Kenya and Tanzania. His methodical style of detective work, in which interrogations were aimed at forging relationships with detainees, became unfashionable after September 11th, in part because the government was intent on extracting information as quickly as possible, in order to prevent future attacks. Yet the more patient approach used by Coleman and other agents had yielded major successes. In the Embassy-bombings case, they helped convict four Al Qaeda operatives on three hundred and two criminal counts; all four men pleaded guilty to serious terrorism charges. The confessions the F.B.I. agents elicited, and the trial itself, which ended in May, 2001, created an invaluable public record about Al Qaeda, including details about its funding mechanisms, its internal structure, and its intention to obtain weapons of mass destruction. (The political leadership in Washington, unfortunately, did not pay sufficient attention.)


On a separate topic, some of the legal consequences of the illegal detentions:

The trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, in Alexandria, Virginia—the only U.S. criminal trial of a suspect linked to the September 11th attacks—is stalled. It’s been more than three years since Attorney General John Ashcroft called Moussaoui’s indictment “a chronicle of evil.” The case has been held up by Moussaoui’s demand—and the Bush Administration’s refusal—to let him call as witnesses Al Qaeda members held in government custody, including Ramzi bin al-Shibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. (Bin al-Shibh is thought to have been tortured.) Government attorneys have argued that producing the witnesses would disrupt the interrogation process.

Similarly, German officials fear that they may be unable to convict any members of the Hamburg cell that is believed to have helped plan the September 11th attacks, on charges connected to the plot, in part because the U.S. government refuses to produce bin al-Shibh and Mohammed as witnesses. Last year, one of the Hamburg defendants, Mounir Motassadeq, became the first person to be convicted in the planning of the attacks, but his guilty verdict was overturned by an appeals court, which found the evidence against him too weak.

Motassadeq is on trial again, but, in accordance with German law, he is no longer being imprisoned. Although he is alleged to have overseen the payment of funds into the accounts of the September 11th hijackers—and to have been friendly with Mohamed Atta, who flew one of the planes that hit the Twin Towers—he walks freely to and from the courthouse each day. The U.S. has supplied the German court with edited summaries of testimony from Mohammed and bin al-Shibh. But Gerhard Strate, Motassadeq’s defense lawyer, told me, “We are not satisfied with the summaries. If you want to find the truth, we need to know who has been interrogating them, and under what circumstances. We don’t have any answers to this.” The refusal by the U.S. to produce the witnesses in person, Strate said, “puts the court in a ridiculous position.” He added, “I don’t know why they won’t produce the witnesses. The first thing you think is that the U.S. government has something to hide.”

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