An important message to all Dennis Kucinich supporters

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

- Mahatma Ghandi

http://www.kucinich.us/

Prayer for America: http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech1.htm

Corporations: http://www.kucinich.us/issues/corporations.php
Economic Justice: http://www.kucinich.us/issues/economicjustice.php

Maybe this is why Kucinich and Edwards are friends?
http://www.johnedwards2004.com/economy.asp

"Our economy, our people, and our nation have been undermined by the crony capitalists who believe that success is all about working the angles, working the phones, and rigging the game, instead of hard work, innovation and frugality…We will never turn this country around until we put our economy and our government back in line with our values…My ideas are based on principles as old as America. Corporate books should be honest. Rewards should be based on accomplishment. Executives and other insiders should be accountable. And businesses have responsibilities to their workers, not just the other way around."

"This administration’s economic vision has one goal: to get rid of taxes on unearned income and shift the burden onto people who work. They want a world where the only people who have to pay taxes are the ones who do the work…I believe the backbone of the American economy is the hard work, determination, and ingenuity of the middle class, not the insiders. I believe the way to grow the economy is to grow and strengthen the middle class, not shrink its size and add to its burdens. I believe the way a rich nation gets richer is by giving all its citizens the chance to get richer, not by only helping those like me who’ve already succeeded beyond our wildest dreams."

[redqueen]

1. Yes

A willingness to use tax incentives does not a corporate-lackey make.

[Terwilliger]

2. That doesn't explain Edwards fealty to the military-industrial complex

or WTO...nor does it explain why Dennis is supporting Edwards.

I think Dennis is supporting in Edwards because he isn't in league with some other candidate, and wants to use his votes against that person. That is cynical, and Dennis told me not to be angry :shrug:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. Dennis isn't endorsing Edwards

The MIC is probably the number one employer in NC and SC, and Edwards is not leftist nor anti-imperialist.

Dennis wants to stay in, and Edwards lacks organization, so the arrangment makes sense. In the end it won't change much.

[Terwilliger]

9. please explain

where did I say that Edwards was leftist or anti-imperialist?

And NC is big in tobacco too...maybe Dennis could push people to start smoking.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

11. you didn't say that, did you?

I didn't say that you said Edwards was a leftist or an anti-imperialist - that's just my opinion. Tobacco is big in NC - Edward's fellow trial lawyers are the ones that sue tobacco companies.

I can understand people not liking Edwards, and I can understand people not voting for him. But cooperating at the caucus makes sense and I'm glad they did it. Hopefully this will get Kucinich delegates, and I think the Edwards supporters and the Kucinich supporters have a lot in common with each other. Same class, different culture?

[Terwilliger]

26. So people who vote for Edwards would vote for Kucinich?

Tell me, WCTV...what chance did you ever think Dennis had in obtaining the party nomination?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

31. I'm hoping Kucinich gets delegates at the convention

I hope he has enough to make a difference in one way or another. I hope he can get his message heard and get into the next administration one way or another, or Senator. That would be enough for me.

Edwards is probably my second choice anyway, maybe Gephardt. If Kucinich endorsed one of the other candidates I'd probably take his endorsement. If I was caucusing in Iowa for Dennis, I'd gladly and enthusiastically support this delegate arrangment.

If I wanted to "take stands" or something I'd vote Green I guess. I'm more interested in influencing the process, and Kucinich is someone that can help us do that - who knows maybe Edwards too.

If Dennis won the primaries they'd shoot him I'm sure.

[Terwilliger]

36. but thats my point

he could have taken softer stands on issues, and had a much greater chance at impacting and influencing...why DIDN'T he do that?

Now is not the time for him to let it be known that he's playing favorites amongst a group of people he shouldn't be supporting.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

41. well to be honest, we're reading more into than there is

I think this is 99% just a stragic arrangement, the number 4 and number 5 candidates at the caucus cooperating to stay in. There isn't really any reason to think that there is any similarity in positions or issues.

But then again Edwards is already my number two or three so I like to think that there is a similarity, and maybe the rumors that they are friends is true, who knows?

[bearfartinthewoods]

15. except insure DK has a voice t the convention.

which is a very good thing.

[AP]

5. Neither does your post. Where did you get that rumor?

[Terwilliger]

7. oh, now it's a rumor?

So why didn't Kucinich say "If you see I'm not going to make the 15% threshold, please vote for another candidate that best suits your political philosophy"

He said they should give their support to Edwards.

[redqueen]

12. Because Edwards will do the same

which means that Kucinich will benefit.

If those supporters truly feel that it's important for Kucinich to advance agree with this tactic, they will do so. If they don't want to see Kucinich do better, then they won't. Simple.

[AP]

14. I was commenting on the fealty thing.

That sounds like a rumor.

The DK think I'm embracing. I think that's great.

[youngred]

20. I think he might be positioning himself for a VP nod

should Edwards get the Presidential nomination

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Do you insist that anyone you work with agree with you on every issue?

Dennis never told me not to be angry -- why did he tell you that? There is more than anger to making a change, though. Perhaps you misunderstood what he said. Passion is good but it has to have a positive platform as well as a litany of what needs to be changed.

[Terwilliger]

10. Yes, but Dennis has none of those things

because no one believes in any of the crap he puts forward in his platform...this is why he has no chance

That's why he should be sticking to his principles now. Unless, of course, his principles never existed...like every other politician.

[redqueen]

16. Oooh we're getting really nasty now

Sorry to disturb your private world, but in reality, MANY of us support the 'crap' he puts forward in his platform, and we believe he has a chance, thanks very much anyway for your effort. :)

He IS sticking to his principles. He is NOT endorsing Edwards. He is simply getting more support where he can. Smart, and not compromising, except obviously to those who don't quite grasp the situation.

[Terwilliger]

27. redqueen, please...I've always been a Kucinich backer

No one respects his policies. He's been shrugged off by everyone from Karl Rove to Jimmy Carville.

What else does he have but his ideological stands??

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

17. Kucinich IS sticking to his principles

The principles in his platform - that you call "crap" that "no one believe in" - haven't changed, and they won't change. He's getting delegates in the convention. This is just like IR voting.

[Terwilliger]

29. Just who believes in cancelling NAFTA?

Kucinich has said that NAFTA is a horrible burden on America and costs America jobs. Edwards is a BIG NAFTA supporter. Where's the commonality?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

33. Edwards is not a big Nafta supporter

He's not as good as Gephardt certainly. As a matter of fact, I'd be more comfortable with Kucinich delegates cooperating with Gephardt's, but sometimes you take what you can get.

[Terwilliger]

37. OK...I see he voted against NAFTA

that's good, and explains a little bit of why Dennis would have picked Edwards...I still don't think that justifies Dennis' tacit endorsement, and he's doing for purposes that aren't clear

[AnAmerican]

19. Total nonsense

Dennis and Edwards working together is strategic move designed to help both candidates. It does not mean they have to agree 100% on every issue. They don't. What they do share is a common concern for a the little guy, the average Joe or Jane. Dennis has alot more in common with Edwards than the others.

The war is a major issue but no candidate is what I would call single issue.

No endorsements, no official backing. Just a caucus night strategy that benefits both.

This will help Dennis get his message out to more voters. Perhaps that is what really bothers you.

[Terwilliger]

28. look Ive been supporting Kucinich since 2001

Im asking what Dennis thinks he's doing supporting a warmonger like Edwards?

[AnAmerican]

34. Really....

"because no one believes in any of the crap he puts forward in his platform...this is why he has no chance"



Your words...sounds like support to me.

[Terwilliger]

38. John Kerry claims that Bush lied to him before he voted for IWR

either Kerry knew that Bush was full of shit and voted for IWR anyway, OR he's actually very dumb and didn't realize that Bush might perpetrate a fraud. I lost respect for Kerry given that one of those two possibilities must have been true.

If Dennis ever thought he had a chance at winning, then I'd have to look upon his thought-processes are rather defective.

So, there's the reason I supported him. He was looking to be a dark horse, independednt spirit trying to bring people together who shared a cmommon vision...similar to his own. That was the only way he could get to the presidency. Compromising in this situation belies a political calculation in his mind that is not well explained.

But, no, I would definitely say I'm not a team player. I don't just say "I trust you" and leave it at that.

[Jackson Smith]

18. Newsflash: The Democratic Party ISN'T the Green Party.

As much as you WANT it to be, it just ISN'T.

Sorry.

[Terwilliger]

30. NEWS back at ya: No kidding

what does that have to do with ANYTHING

[leftist_rebel1569]

25. Dennis does NOT support Edwards

Kucinich and Edwards only made a deal for the caucus. It doesn't mean they're supporting the other persons ideals, it just means that if one doesn't make viability in a certain district, the supporters for one will go to the other. It's only caucus politics, not a matter of issues.

[LWolf]

3. Yes

Edwards and Dennis make a good team, IMO.

[AP]

6. The long and winding road of DK & JE: remember who got least time

in the first bunch of debates?

Remember when we were timing the allocation of time in the debates before they started giving them all exactly a minute? Dean got the most time and Edwards, Kucinich and CMB got the least.

It would be something like Dean: 11-14 minutes and E, K and CMB all with less than 5 minutes.

[LWolf]

13. I also remember

the clear winners of the last debate:

Dennis Kucinich and John Edwards.

I think they make a pretty good team.

Of course, when push comes to shove, I'm standing firm for my man Dennis.

But I can cheerfully make Edwards my 2nd choice; he's been there off and on anyway.

[Sugarbleus]

21. I've been watching all the pre caucus speeches and

I'm starting to think they all suck. What some of the candidates said in the beginning of campaigning is now being "tempered" with "explanations" to tone down those remarks. BLECH! :puke:

I will be glad as hell when Bush is gone but I'm sad that no one, but maybe Kucinich, is planning on doing anything REALLY different and LASTING in Government. I am really, really depressed.


.....I'm sorry Kucinich, you would have been great...

[AP]

23. You really thought Kucinich was going to win?

You really think forming a CLASS-BASED bloc with John Edwards is going back on his principles?

[LWolf]

32. Hi, AP. To answer,

1. Yes. I really think that Kucinich will win. I will go on thinking that until the democratic nominee is announced at/after the convention. Like Dennis himself, I'm persistent in the face of the odds.

2. No, I don't think it's going back on his principles. I think it's a convenient spin for some to make, but Dennis' principles remain intact. As do Edwards. Notice how no one is taking Edwards to task for this?

[stickdog]

22. Or maybe it's Edwards' hardcore DLC support that swayed Kucinich.

Wouldn't that be about as likely considering that ALL of the Dem candidates want to repeal Bush's tax cuts for the rich?

[AP]

24. Dan Schorr says DLC d/NOT like Edwards because he's not down

with Globalism-a-go-go.

He votes for NC jobs and against globalism.

DLC don't like it.

And don't you listen to the debates? Edwards won in '98 on an ANTI-NAFTA message. (Meanwhile Dean was trumpeting NAFTA back in VT.)

[foo_bar]

35. it's Gandhi. Gandhi!

I'm sorry to be a spelling authoritarian, but words mean things, especially this one.

http://www.pub.umich.edu/daily/1998/oct/10-16-98/edit/edit3.html
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_common_misspellings
http://www.crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/1999q4/001271.html

All kernels go through three stages. First, they are ridiculed. Second, they are violently opposed. Third, they are installed as /boot/vmlinuz. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

39. sorry, too late to change it now

editing time expired...

[dawgman]

40. here are my thought on it all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=138418