Thomas Jefferson says electoral college is a mistake. Do you agree?

[Clarkie1]

Poll question: Thomas Jefferson says electoral college is a mistake. Do you agree?

"The contrivance in the Constitution for marking the votes works badly, because it does not enounce precisely the true expression of the public will."

Private letter to Tenche Coxe (so private he didn't mail it using the Postal Service because he feared agents of Adam's reading his mail), Dec. 31, 1800.

Do you agree with Jefferson? A simple Yea (agree) or Ney (don't agree) will do.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. Just the term smacks of elite agenda, was Hamilton for it?

[DieboldMustDie]

2. Actually the term "electoral college" isn't in the Constitution...

Don't know when it was coined. :shrug:

[Clarkie1]

3. "The contrivance in the Constitution for marking the votes" n/t

[Clarkie1]

4. Very n/t

[Merlot]

5. It might have been a good idea before TV and polling

Forced candidates to travel all around to get votes. Now it does the opposite, as they target only the states they need.

But the good news is that living in California, we're not subjected to presidential commericials.

[saltpoint]

6. Voted 'yea' on this one.

A very good post. I appreciate it.

I stand on Jefferson's shoulders to get a better view of things, and his shoulders are pretty tall.

One of my high school teachers said he never liked Thomas Jefferson because Jefferson "a nerd."

Well, I guess some of my best friends are nerds, then.

Two senators for Wyoming? And then only two for New York and California?

Representation alone is a bit askew.

When Jefferson sent Lewis and Clark west, he should have told them, "Now remember -- only California, Oregon, and Washington can have senators. None of the red states can."

[Massacure]

8. Well the small states never would have signed on to the Constitution

if they didn't get equal representation in a part of the government. If the Constitution wasn't adopted, then we would still be under the Articles of Confederation.

I don't see how you can get 37 states to agree with abolishing the electoral college when 25 benefit from it either.

I would be pleased if we could get rid of it though.

[saltpoint]

12. Yes -- agreed.

[T Town Jake]

7. Absolutely agree...

...the electoral college is the first thing that needs to be fixed when it comes to election reform. It's an anachronism that needs to be abolished, IMO.

[NoPasaran]

9. Jefferson wasn't referring to our present system, was he?

Look at the date. At that time the Electors cast two votes each; he and his running mate Aaron Burr had each received 73 Electoral Votes, throwing the election into the House of Representatives. The Twelfth Amendment, which was adopted during Jefferson's Administration, changed the system to the current one where the electors cast two distinct votes, one for President and one for Vice President.

I don't think that Jefferson was advocating the abolition of the Electoral College altogether.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Jefferson and Tench Coxe also supported the right to bear arms

I just wanted to point that out for those that would cheer certain rights while opposing others. BTW, the Electoral College is undemocratic and archaic and should be repealed as slavery was!

Here are some quotes from Tench Coxe and Jefferson:

"Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."

--Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

--Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."

-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

-- Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,

http://www.geocities.com/bsdunagan/2ndamend.htm

[rqstnnlitnmnt]

11. well to him the redcoats actually were coming

now the *es just make us think they're all coming to get us.

sure Jefferson supported right to bear arms, he also lived in rural ass Virginia mountains where one had no choice but to protect themselves because they simply could not rely on any centralized defense.

did Jefferson ever envision our present world? Surely not, and anyway Jefferson was an extremely contemplative and philosophical man who would be appalled and outraged at the rhetoric slopped on the masses to sustain this obsolete provision.

[Silverhair]

13. Doesn't matter. It is here to stay.

Any 13 small states can block any constitutional amendment.