So, I just watched Dean's speech

[ProfessorPlum]

that has everyone so worked up, and I have to say I cannot believe that anyone has any kind of a problem with this. Dean's supporters in Iowa I'm sure were looking for some kind of cue from Dean, and Dean, instead of coming out and acting like he had been defeated, came out and was celebrating his 3rd place victory! He was upbeat, energized, acting like it was a great accomplishment, which it was coming from someone who started from nearly no national recognition. He was clearly a bit hoarse from the campaign, and even though it was the night after a long, harrowing day, he still seemed energized - he was ready to get on a plane and go to a 3am rally that night!

One thing you have to give him credit for, he has tons of energy, and is clearly ready to expend it to take the fight to Bush.

He could have come out and somberly accepted "defeat" - what a cold shower that would have been. Instead he rallied his troops and was incredibly upbeat.

Those people in that room were celebrating a great victory - and 18% caucus showing for Dean in Iowa, and he celebrated with them and thanked them and encouraged them and got them even more fired up to take out Dubya.

All day today I've been reading about and hearing people talk about how he was a "madman" and "crazed" and "over the top". Buy into that talk, and the media wins again, just as they did with the Wellstone memorial.

Make no mistake, nothing scares the corporate media like seeing real people, Americans energized to do good to each other and the country, displaying passion and optimism and fight and real human emotion, ready to take their country back from the plutocrats. It scared them to death at the Wellstone memorial, and I'm sure it scared them to death watching Dean's speech. "Why won't the guy just lay down?" I'm sure they were asking themselves. Instead, he was energized and hopeful and genuine and passionate.

This is a turning point in this campaign. We will now hear from a million sources, over and over, about what a madman Dean is. Just as with the Wellstone memorial, this will be used as a club against Dean by people who NEVER EVEN WATCHED the speech. Opinions will be drawn about Dean, just as mine were earlier today, based on what others are erroneously saying about the speech - and they will come from people 1) deliberately lying 2) parroting the right wing take or 3) who don't like energized, encouraging, fired-up Democrats anymore than Karl Rove does.

Your definition of "presidential" behavior may differ from mine. When I watched Dean's speech I saw one hell of a campaigner, and someone who has drawn the Democratic party out of its navel-gazing fear and who has made it fun to go after Bush. He has breathed life back into this party. If the "proper" thing was for him to be a "nice loser" - being self-defeated and stunned about his loss (a la Gore wrt Florida), then I guess he failed at that. I'm sure that's what the corporate media had in mind for him.

Do not let the spin overtake the event itself. If you get someone talking about how bad this was for Dean, have them actually watch the speech. I cannot imagine how this is a negative for him - he was joyful, laughing and smiling, playing the room, drawing cheers from Tom Harken and all of his volunteers.

It was a CELEBRATION. And like the celebration of Wellstone's life which was twisted into something horrible by the corporate media, it needs to be mocked by them. The joke will be on them in a month or two.

link here:
http://www.c-span.org/VideoArchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,&Page=2

[stopthegop]

1. third place victory...

like Gephardt's fourth place victory...and Dennis K's fifth place victory...

we should face facts...this was a significant loss for Dean...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. third place

just because he lost in iowa does not mean he will lose in the general elections. bush was in third place to dole in iowa but then became the president..so all is not lost and i am glad to see dean's spirit

ANYONE BUT BUSH

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. Well, I would now be hard to convince he could take Iowa over Bush

with 18% of the vote.

[ProfessorPlum]

Can I get a "squawk <whistle>"?

That certainly parrots the conventional corporate media view.

And no doubt Dean and all of his supporters would have really hoped for a better showing in IA.

But Edwards and Kerry have hardly any money. Gep is out. Clark, even if he gets some legs, has the matching funds cap to deal with. Kerry is the only one who has the potential to raise more money and keep going, but will he?

Dean has legs - his campaign, with his use of volunteers and his war chest, can just keep going on and on, state to state, gathering delegates, while the rest blow their wad against him in particular early states, like Gephardt did in IA. When they are gone, Dean will still be in the race for the long haul.

It's tough to be hurt by high expectations, but watch the video and see for yourself how "disappointed" Dean was - he was elated! And he knows he has the backing of thousands of people to continue.

I'll take that kind of "defeat" any day.

[Individualist]

48. Speaking of parroting the corporate media view

I find it very interesting that so many in this forum have followed the lead of the media whores in bashing Dean.

[CWebster]

2. Well said Professor

Bravo!

[LatinManNH]

14. The Wellstone Memorial

I'm so glad you remind us here of how that was spun to make Democrats look craven and mean-spirited. The same is being done now with Dean's speech, yet his detractors are too psyched to perceive Dean as "cracking up" to make the obvious comparison. I refuse to attack other people's choice for candidates because if I don't have anything good to say about my own, then I should just keep my comments to myself.

[Justice]

25. Little comparison between the Wellstone Memorial and

Dean's speech and the reactions to them.

I am tremendously saddened that some would even attempt to make a comparison.

[LatinManNH]

33. I rememeber

how the Democrats were demonized for booing and hissing at Jesse Ventura when his picture came up on the screen, and how everyone in the media made a huge deal saying that the memorial was turned into a political event. I am not comparing Wellstone to Dean and Dean is completely responsible for the way he acts in public. I do agree with the Professor that the media is having a field day with Dean's speech the way they used the Wellstone memorial to demonize his supporters.

[ProfessorPlum]

41. It's true the Democrats were demonized

But the rest is a big lie. There were a couple of scattered boos for Trent Lott in a gathering of thousands of progressive people who had just lost Paul Wellstone (big surprise. I'm surprised Lott showed up there at all - that's a bigger insult). Nobody booed Ventura.

Ventura made a big deal out of poor Trent being booed, crying crocodile tears for him. Then the media machine went to work - can't have those progressives being upbeat!

[LatinManNH]

52. Thanks for the clarification

[ProfessorPlum]

39. Yes, little comparison

just a bunch of enthusiastic, progressive people celebrating a person trying to make a difference for the average American. Also, lots of cheering, smiles, and a little bit of getting people worked up about how rotten Republicans are.

No comparison at all.

Certainly, the media reaction has been COMPLETELY different. /sarcasm

[KoKo]

40. You've spoken the Truth! I just now watched the speech from your link,

because I refused to watch any of the Media Coverage yesterday or today about this.

This speech was wonderful! It was perfect! From what I read here on DU last night I thought Dean must have totally stressed out. That he appeared "unhinged and dangerous." I felt that fellow DU'ers wouldn't say things like that if they weren't true. After all we are all Democrats here and wouldn't trash a candidate that viciously if something serious beyond belief hadn't happened.

I tried to watch the CNN and Yahoo clips but my Real Audio wouldn't download them. All I could find was some snippet on Drudge and that didn't make any sense.

So, until your C-Span link I've read over and over here on DU about how bad this all was, that Dean was doomed, it was all over for him.

This is really disappointing to me. That fellow DU'ers would turn on a candidate for "THIS SPEECH?" It has made me question everyone who made such viscious untrue statements about this speech. Either they are very young and haven't listened to years of Campaign Speeches after Primaries or they were intentionally trying to mis-state how this speech was delivered, the content and the purpose.

Last night was a sad time on DU. I hope this won't come back to bite those folks when their Candidate comes in third.

Many thanks for the C-Span Link. It tells the truth that the Media won't and that many here won't either from now on. But at least those of us who viewed it can feel great about Howard Dean.....the man who really sees the mess this country is in.

:toast:

[ProfessorPlum]

49. Isn't it amazing?

I thought he had ripped the head off of a goat or something, the way everyone was going on (and are still going on, apparently).

Turns out it was just a very joyful speech, given in a hoarse voice, to a noisy roomful of tired volunteers and supporters.

What the hell?

[Democrats unite]

4. Rose colored glasses come to mind.

eom

[Fleshdancer]

6. the same can be said to you comes to mind

eom

[PretzelWarrior]

5. well, I'm a Dean supporter and have to admit...he looked psycho

to the average person watching. THink about it: He's not going to win with just his established organization alone. He needs to appeal to an ever larger base of people. He definitely looked a bit out of control to a lot of folks, and I understand the rationale for why he took that tone.

Unlike your conclusions that he was celebrating (why would he celebrate a distant 3rd place after being front runner), I believe he was performing for his troops out there around the country trying to get them whipped up so they don't lose heart as relatively young and new participants in the process. That analysis makes some sense. So....in that case, it would be worth coming off as an Elmer Gantry to everyone else.

I think Dean is losing traction big time and will come in 2nd or 3rd to Clark/Kerry in New Hampshire.

[ProfessorPlum]

24. I know this has been stated a million times here before

and of course, Dean and his organization would like to win both IA and NH -

but Clinton lost both. He didn't even really run in IA, and he came in 3rd in NH. There is a lot of crossover voting in the NH primary, too. What happens after that will matter a lot more.

Think about this - there really was only one other candidate who was running against Dean in both states, and that was Kerry.

Kerry, Gephardt, and Edwards run against Dean in IA.

Clark, Lieberman, and Kerry run against Dean in NH.

Dean is campaigning full bore in both places.

Even with a 3rd place "loss" in both IA and NH, Dean might end up with as many delegates as the people who "win" there - as they certainly won't be the same people.

And then, when the smoke clears from both of those states, and from super Tuesday, who will be left? Dean will still have his piles of money and his volunteer network to continue going to many more states. He is strong in every state, if not a leader in every state. No other candidate can say that.

[PretzelWarrior]

30. you are correct. I like the dynamic of this race.

I think Kerry/Edwards can do for Dean what Dean did for Kerry. Namely, he can learn from this fall and adjust his tone and message to reflect the wishes of the majority of activist participants in the process. American Democrats are no dummies. They care about who can match up against Bush's strong position as an incumbent, as a pretend centrist, and as a guy the "common man" is willing to trust despite his evil policies. We need someone who can counter that, and old Dean is gonna have to recalibrate if he wants to do something in states beyond New Hampshire.

[soleft]

7. My reaction to the speech was spontaneous as I watched it

before any spin. I hope the majority of Dean supporters and voters feel the way you do.

[wryter2000]

8. Thank you, Professor

When I watched Dean's speech I saw one hell of a campaigner, and someone who has drawn the Democratic party out of its navel-gazing fear and who has made it fun to go after Bush. He has breathed life back into this party.

Thank you. I haven't watched the speech yet, but I will.

Whatever happens, Dean has changed the conversation. He was the first, in my observation, to say that the whole system was out of whack. That the Emperor was naked. If Kerry, Edwards, et al. are taking it to Bush, they're doing it because Dean showed that that was the way to win. My best guess is that Clark wouldn't even be in the race if he hadn't observed Dean's success.

This isn't meant as a slap against those candidates. They're all fine, and I'll support them if they get the nomination. But we all owe Dean a big thank you for taking the ball out of Bush/Cheney/Rove's court.

[el_gato]

Standard stump speach, No Big Deal

the media wants it to be an issue just like Gore wearing a sweater

who cares? I expected something much more interesting just now when I went to watch the video. Hell I thought he must have stabbed somebody or something the way people are talking about it now. Instead I see it is nothing more than a fabricated meme which people jump onto just like the media sponsored Al Gore smears.

[ProfessorPlum]

17. Exactly

what a tempest in a teapot.

But watch how the media will use it as a crowbar against him - we'll see how he rises above it -

But the best thing to do if you hear people commenting on it is to have them watch the speech - it really is nothing very remarkable - except in his optimism.

[Westegg]

43. media crowbar

I agree with you, to a point. But we have to acknowledge that the "media" today is a vast, voracious and restlessly roaming beast, and not just standard "news" organizations. This morning, I heard and saw out-of-context bits of audio and video of Dean's speech last night being ridiculed from ESPN (sports TV and radio) to Howard Stern and other "morning drive-time" radio personalities. To say nothing of the Drudge Report, etc. Some are making political hay of it because they have an agenda. Others are using it for shock/humor value alone. But we live in an era when a sports network can mock a candidate, and reach millions in their audience---said audience not looking for political commentary, but they get it anyway, and this could surely have some kind of undermining impact.

[nofurylike]

9. yes! i second that bravo, ProfessorPlum! n/t

[Catholic Sensation]

10. The only thing about the speech that bothered me

was the scream he did early on, it was one of the weirdest noises I've ever heard. Otherwise, I'm a Kerry supporter, I saw nothing at all wrong with it.

[newsjunkie]

44. LOL It was a war cry

and obviously totally spontaneous from sheer joy. I loved it.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

11. as usual, the DLC-bots

attack him for looks and personality and not a single substantive issue metioned, lest we have to discuss the positions (or lack of) of the empty suit victors of last night

[RUexperienced]

12. He looked like Jimmy Swaggart hosting a professional wrestling convention

[Nazgul35]

18. than so did Harkin....

who came on right before Dean and used the same kind of energy to announce the Governor....

Or didn't you see that part?

But I guess Dean is the only candidate that gets hit with this kind of nonsense....keep the "angry" and "out of control" nonsense going...

[RUexperienced]

31. harkin doesn't have to look presidential

howard does.

[hey2370]

13. Just gave Dean $100

I love that crazy mofo! :-)

[ProfessorPlum]

27. LOL nt

.

[newsjunkie]

47. me too

hahahahaha he rocks it all night long! YEEEEEEEEEAHH
I thought that speech was hilarious and inspiring at the same time and thats not easy to pull off....plus he has the whole media talking about HIM again. LOL Lets not write this guy off quite so quick...he's pretty dang smart.

[goodhue]

15. yes

It really was not that big a deal although the scream sounds really kooky on radio.

[BeyondGeography]

19. That speech was Dean's political obituary

Sorry. There's no recovering from the global embarassment he's caused himself. Amateurish ranting disqualifies you from being President.

As for the "celebration" theme, after all the magazine covers, the endorsements, the self-propelled hype of the Trippi-Dean machine and poll-after-poll confirming his frontrunner status, you really can't be surprised that the non-Dean world doesn't see it that way.

And if you think I'm gloating as a Clark supporter, I'm not. Kerry's rise is hurting Clark, so life is more difficult for the General as a result of last night. But I can easily live with Kerry (Edwards less), much more so than Dean. Nothing personal against Howard; just never thought he could beat Bush. That meltdown of a speech, which was devoid of SUBSTANCE on top of the obvious style problem, confirmed it for a lot of people.

[ProfessorPlum]

34. ?huh?

Have you _watched_ the speech? I honestly can't think of anyone who watched the speech could think it was "the end" of anything - or even a meltdown. Maybe if the 10-second clip on Faux was your only exposure . . .

I don't know what substance you were looking for - Dean has only stated his positions a million times, and the people in that room didn't need to hear it. They had worked their butts off for him, and he was talking about the process of the primary season, not fiscal policy.

If that's the obituary, be prepared to see Howard "Dead Man Walking" Dean for a long time to come. He's going to keep coming, like the mummy.

[Justice]

54. I completely agree

As I watched it (and I did watch it) I said out loud - he is done, he is all done.

I've talked to a number of people today (in NH) who said it was unnerving.

It wasn't just that his voice, or his yell - it was that there was no substance. He just kept yelling out states - and then yelled them out again - and then yelled them out again. It was that he didn't have anything to say substantively. It was the lack of substance that people reacted to as much as the tone.

[diamond14]

20. like a good sport in a sporting event, the political 'loser' should

yield the victory to the winner in a dignified manner....

it was typical of a 'little' man and a 'bad sport' that he did NOT yield the victory to the winner in a fair fight and 'virtually' shake the victor's hand....

rather, he acted like he won....nasty....just nasty....


that will kill any chance for Dean with the rest of the country....

if you want to see a good and fair concession speech...look at Edwards and Gebhardt and Kuchinich.....

and Kerry commended all...but also reached out specifically to Gebhardt, which was a wonderful gesture, and may result in Gebhardt throwing his support to Kerry....it was an excellent inclusive speech to build unity between Gebhardt supporters and Kerry supporters....the political play of the day, from a DECORATED VIETNAM VETERAN who knows how to get things done and take the White House....

Dean could have done something similar....reached out....commended the winner....and used the event to show Dean in a GOOD light...unfortunately, Dean demolished himself in that speech...it was vicious, failed to show a 'sportsman-like' fair approach to politics, and failed to pull in or merge other constituents...it was a real loser for a concession speech...

[ProfessorPlum]

37. Yes, I suppose a good little loser would have done that

MOre political history . . .

In 1992, Clinton came in 3rd in NH. He declared himself "The Comeback Kid", acted like he had won, and went on to victory.

I'm amazed that even after Clinton (and Dean) are teaching us how to win, we continue to reject their lessons.

Of course Kerry reached out to Gephardt - Gephardt's campaigning against Dean was a big part of Kerry's win.

And Dean was very gracious to Gephardt as well - have you SEEN the speech?

[ieoeja]

53. Agreed

And if and when he loses, I am fairly certain that he will give a "sportsman-like" concession speech. But Dean has hardly lost the race. To stick to your sports analogy, a concession speech from Dean at this point would make about as much sense as a concession speech by the head coach of a team down at the half, and one not down that much.

[dansolo]

56. Dean hasn't "lost" anything

This was only the very first caucus. There is still a long way to go, and you are looking for Dean to concede already? For all we know, in NH we could have a Dean/Edwards finish with Kerry and Clark splitting their votes. Should we then expect to see Kerry conceding?

[Uzybone]

21. Speech didn't bother me much

but it has been and will be used to portray Dean as an lunatic.

Whats funny is the ridiculous rationalizations I'm seeing from Dean supporters. You almost make is seem as if Dean was gunning for third place. This is a disappointing loss, make no bones about.

[caledesi]

22. Totally agree. nt

[bloom]

23. thanks for your take

I couldn't really imagine there being such a problem as was suggested.

Sure, supporters of other candidates (or of Bush) would like to see him grovel...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

26. If we are gonna base our support...

and our candidates on the jocular tomfoolery and Klownish Klowning of Imus, Stern, their ilk, and no end of RNC-mole pundits, we might as well piss on the campfire and call in the dogs. We're toast.

As for the comments on this from professed Democrats: Don't think that many of us undecideds don't know what is in play here. I, for one, am unimpressed. In extremis. This endless harping about one speech is fruitless and you are gonna get 1, maybe 2 days of traction out of it. That ain't squat. You better get some new sheet music.

To the Dean Supporters: BFD. Tommorrow's another day. Rage on.

[OKNancy]

28. But you love Dean

and you have fallen in love with him. I just don't think you can see him in the eyes of those who don't love him. To an undecided voter, which seem to be a huge part of the electorate right now, it doesn't look good. It is not a bash to point this out.

[mistertrickster]

29. Thank you, thank you, thank you--that's exactly what I've been thinking

from day one: newspapers and tv pundits are losing power to networked ordinary individuals (like us, in fact). And how do you think they like that?

Howard Dean is the epitome, the epicenter of a new "wired" nexus of interactive (as opposed to passive) information transmission--information that leads to direct action and participation instead of buying more crap from WalMart.

Big media is going to fight that with everything they've got. And that means Dr. Dean has a huge target on his back.

[ProfessorPlum]

46. watch the actual speech

and you won't believe what a molehill this mountain really is.

[Justice]

55. I watched it live - its Mount Everest

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. You have nothing to worry about.

As long as undecided voters feel the same way you do about it. Do they?

[chiburb]

35. Speaking as a fence-sitter....

My reply to a similar thread:

And as one who is thrilled that a DEMOCRAT won the Iowa caucus, let me say this:

I heard the Dean soundbite on NPR while driving to work this morning. It wasn't the lead clip, it was in context after hearing clips of Kerry and Edwards. Anyway, I couldn't believe my ears. The man sounded crazed to me and very frightening. Later, I SAW the clip on GMA or Today and realized that the Doctor was smiling and just rallying the troops after a bitter loss. It still seemed over the top, but I had to SEE it realize that he was NOT pulling a Howard Beal (Network: "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"!).

Will it hurt? Hell if I know, but it sure might have if hurt his chances with me if I'd only heard the audio.

Once again, I'm ABB and will support the Dem nominee....

[lurk_no_more]

36. I watched it for the first time today

And I have to concur with most on this board, the man concerns me. What I saw was a man used to being in control, out of control, I saw fear, confusion and desperation, to me this was evident by his pause between rants looking for support. IMHO he has real problems, and with him being a doctor, I hope he realizes this and seeks the needed help.

I have been through a similar situation with similar results as I witnessed about 10 years ago and I am fine now.

This is not meant as a flame (I could have done that last night along with the others) I really am concerned for Dr. Dean's health and hope for a speedy recovery.

Losing last night is not the end of the world and with the proper help he could be back on his game.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[ProfessorPlum]

50. Again, I think you were watching a different speech

.

[stopbush]

38. I saw it last night, and it wasn't Howard's finest moment.

This looked like a situation I've seen before, ie: a room of screaming fans who are so loud that the guy on stage doesn't realize that his shouting at THEM is playing very poorly over the live feed traveling from his microphone directly into the TV pick up.

Many public types have these moments. The difference is - and will be with Dean - what the media does with it. We've all seen bush's many embarrassing gaffes ("he's an asshole"), verbal stumbles (too many to quote just one here) and idiotic blank stares in live events. But these are seldom repeated for general consumption. Even the print media sanitizes and "corrects" bush's disasters, and the visual media cherry-picks bush's footage to show him in the best possible light.

But Dean can rest assured that this footage will have legs like crazy. He and his campaign need to come up with an effective response to last night's over-the-top performance, and PRONTO. Hey, if Dean had the media in his back pocket, they'd simply edit out the "crazy" part from last night and be left with his typical stump speech. But it doesn't work that way, not for Dean, not for any Dem.

Damage control is called for. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the next couple of weeks.

[ProfessorPlum]

45. "Damage control"

is exactly what the corporate presstitutes are hoping to force out of him.

1. Never apologize, especially not to the whores in the media

What, exactly, should he apologize for? For being upbeat? For not putting on his sad face, and quietly withdrawing from the race? For not admitting, tearfully, that Kerry would make a better president than him?

What was his crime? This is just something the press is pounding him with - he didn't do anything wrong. This would be like Gore apologizing for all of the "lies" that the press just made up about him.

He is optimistic, forward looking, and the best campaigner I have ever seen. And the most energetic, I would add. I think Clinton is smarter than Dean.

Ah well, leave it to Democrats to throw over the best campaigner that's come down the pike in years. Typical.

[Sparkle]

42. I saw Dean's speech also.

And it was over the top. Yes he was energized but maybe a little "too energized". I know folks are joking about it a lot today but hopefully it will soon fade away. I'm betting he won't be that loud again. That was downright painful to the people listening in our living rooms.

Maybe we should call him "Frisky Dean". Oh how I envy his wife.;-)

[cmf]

51. I watched it live on C-SPAN last night.

No commentary. My Husband and I just looked at each other and bust out laughing. My husband mused, "Is he drunk?" Later on he surmised, "He must have been exhausted."

It was over the top and somewhat crazed. I didn't need to hear any media commentary to form that conclusion.