Is this KerryUnderground or DemocraticUnderground?

[MindPilot]

I'm beginning to suspect the former. Any one who questions Kerry or his campaign or simply fails to acknowledge Kerry's perfection is quickly labeled a disruptor, GOP operative, or Rovian.

Some of the Kerry supporters on this board have become like those who call anyone who criticizes Zionism anti-Semitic.

[GRLMGC]

1. Oh please

Kerry bashing is more than accepted here. When someone finally decides to mouth off then people like you start screaming "persecution"!

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fenris]

3. Wait for it.....

:nopity:

[crispini]

4. Hahahahahahahahaha!

What board have YOU been reading lately?

Thanks, I needed the laugh though.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. EVERY GROUP is persecuted on DU!

severe persecution accompanied by torture :eyes:

[sniffa]

6. it's whinersunderground

[liberalpragmatist]

33. I think you nailed it

[Ganja Ninja]

7. OK whatever.

:eyes:

[WI_DEM]

8. This amuses me

because I remember when people used to ask--Is this Democratic Underground or Dean Underground.

[yinkaafrica]

9. Your analogy may be accurate

Still, Kerry is a Democrat and we have to back him
in the fight against evil. Should he run in 2008... no way.
But I think he will figure that out long before then.
At least he has addressed the problem with the crooked vote.
We need to absolutely fix that ASAP.

[sendero]

51. Should he run in 2008?

That is my main point. He should NOT. And the reason he rolled over on the "voting irregularities" is because he is already positioning himself for 2008.

I'm SICK TO DEATH of that kind of politician, and I won't vote for Kerry again. I'm not mad at him, I just get livid when people act like we should waste another shot at the presidency when there are candidates who might actually have a shot at winning.

IMHO - If you cannot beat George W Bush, you cannot beat ANYONE. Why the HELL would we want to run you again?

[Vektor]

10. Questions are one thing....

hateful bashing, and baseless attacks don't do anyone any good, and likely will not be taken kindly.

Plenty of people have legitimate concerns, and others simply like to hurl divisive insults, and yes, disrupt. Not only regarding Kerry but any number of progressive figures.

It's possible that anyone accused of Rovian tactics is expressing themselves in a less than civil manner.

Also, this board is often trolled and flamed by actually GOPers, and if you visit their sites, they have many pages dedicated to bragging about this. It's understandable why genuine DUers are suspicious of Rovian seeming visitors - we get so many everyday.

The best weapon against being labeled as such is to express one's concerns/questions with tact, not attacks.

Not saying you did that, but it happens.

[seabeyond]

11. acknowledge Kerry's perfection

this is what i challenge. and i have been challenging it a lot. so if it is my name you are seeing on these challenges and getting bothered with, here i am. and again, i am going to challenge.

i am going to challenge that anyone on this board has suggested kerry was perfect

i know what i have been challenging are mis statements such as this. does this constitute a challenge to you that equals this statement of yours

"Kerry supporters on this board have become like those who call anyone who criticizes Zionism anti-Semitic."

just curious, casue really, i am with boxer, just the facts, just the truth, no made up stories, enough

kinda like what you just created in your post

respectfully, wink and a grin cause i am playing mostly

[ernstbass]

12. I see a lot of Kerry criticism here

[cali]

13. Is this a real post

or an attempt at humor?

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

14. At least it's not JoementumUnderground

More often than not, someone "labeled a disruptor, GOP operative, or Rovian" on DU is usually "a disruptor, GOP operative, or Rovian."

The ones who find a fight on DU are usually the ones who come here looking for one...if you catch my drift.

[sendero]

52. Smells like ...

... BULLSHIT.

I've seen posts where people claim that anyone questioning Kerry is a disruptor. I've been here for years, I might be disruptive but I'm not a disruptor.

It is against DU rules to call anyone a disruptor. If a post looks suspicious, hit the Alert.

Otherwise, just because someone feels free to criticize within the party does not make them a disruptor. Bush* surrounds himself with "Yes" people, hopefully the Dems know that criticism is crucial to finding problems. Not every criticism is valid, even I don't agree with every criticism of Kerry or others here - but a lot of it is and it makes some people uncomfortable to have the dirty laundry aired out. That's really just too bad.

[Jacobin]

15. I'm a Deaniac

If you think its bad now, you should have seen the long knives out against Dean when he was the front runner and the smugness of Kerry supporters who crowed that we then had a "real" candidate for prez.

I was underwhelmed by Kerry's campaign, although it had a few high spots. I supported him and sent him money because we had no choice.

Kerry did not win. I hope he doesn't try to run again.

We desperately need new blood to beat the repukes, someone who will fight and not be mamby pamby about it.

I think Dean can do it. I hope the old line Dems will give him a chance, because there isn't much left of the party.

[Divine Discontent]

16. Kerry rocks j/a!

lol.... he's not perfect.. but he was perfect on his VOTE today!!!!!!!



GOD BLESS EM!



we need more like Kerry and less like Joementum, Joeplagerer, and any other wimpy Dem that doesn't stand up to their crap.

remember, Kerry is a thoughtful person, comes across very intelligent, and won just under 48% of the electoral votes & popular vote (est.).

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. i have nothing against dean

its true kerry couldnt win. but dean couldnt even win the primaries...

[arcane1]

19. lmao, good point!

:toast:

[demwing]

66. LMAO at bad logic

because winning the primary is nothing like winning the GE.

Obviously. The primary season favors the establishment candidate.

Here's a thought - If all the primaries were held on the same day, Dean would have won easily. Momentum was in his favor. Iowa would not have mattered a peep.

To all those who think that the winning of the primary season is evidence of the ability to win the GE, just look at JK, and every other candidate who won their nomination handily, then went on to lose the GE.

[Jacobin]

22. If you'll recall, he was ahead

until old line Dems got the long knives out for him in Iowa. At that point, it was all over.

Old line Dems (PNACers) killed him, not republicans.

If they continue to do so, the party is over.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. what i am saying is that man who lost amongst the dems

may not have been able to win amongs the whole country.


i am just saying deaniacs should get the irony when they call kerry a loser.


also a lot of progressives didnt vote for dean cos he is much more centrist than kerry/

[CTLawGuy]

25. Dean lost

for a couple of major reasons.

1. The outer base turned against him in the last week before Iowa because they were convinced he couldn't win. Dean didn't do anything to counter charges he wasn't electable.
2. After iowa there was not enough time to come back against Kerry, because of the setup of the primary season.

Here's some explanation:


1. The party base has two subdivisions, an "inner" and "outer" base. The inner base consists of democrats who are active in the party. They choose candidates early and rarely change. They base their decisions on their ideology and the ideas of the candidates. The "outer" base will vote in the primary, but does not pay attention until late in the season. They tend to change their minds frequently or wait until the last minute to choose. They base their decisions more on practical concerns: who looks good? who is "electable"? who can beat the opponent? Kerry and the DLC did an effective job of painting Dean as unelectable to Iowans, in the last weeks when the outer base was starting to really pay attention. Dean also did things that hurt him, such as the Gephardt attack ads, and never tried to assert his electability.


2. The primary season is set up to encourage a winner early. Primaries are so close together that people who lose early have a difficult time coming back in later states, because there is not enough time. Nothing impresses the outer base more than a candidate who just won a primary state. Therefore there is a domino effect that is hard to counter, especially if you only have a week between primaries. This is called "momentum".
Dean could not fight Kerry's momentum.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. my point is if he coudnt even fight kerrys momentum

is there any reason to assume he could figh bush's


atleast kerry plays fair. bush does not.

again i like dean. love kerry. would have voted for either.

[Jacobin]

30. Kerry HAD no momentum until Iowa

Kerry was a distant fourth or fifth until Iowa when the old line dem PNACers pulled out the long knives and excoriated Dean.

When Kerry pulled off Iowa, everyone (including me) jumped on the Kerry bandwagon to try to remove Bush. It didn't work

Re-writing history to make it look like Kerry was ahead the whole time is just silly.

[blm]

41. It was the MEDIA who hyped Dean's high numbers before Iowa and

then they worked to tear him down thinking he would be the nominee. They wanted a bloodied nominee.

They tore down Kerry for months BEFORE Iowa to prevent him from being the nominee and kept tearing him down throughout the general campaign.

[JNelson6563]

42. I've said this here before

It took a cabal of Dems with long knifes to stop Dean. Kerry lost to a trained shimp. There ya go.

Julie

[flpoljunkie]

49. Afraid not. Dean and his Deaniacs in Iowa lost all by themselves.

Remember, the "scream" came after the--what was it--fourth place Iowa showing?

[NYCGirl]

62. Third, but then who's counting? NT

[KittyWampus]

27. Old Line Dems In IOWA? LOL! Harkin Endoresed Dean Remember

Dean supporters need to stop making him out to be a martyr.

It's ludicrous and does Dean no favors.

P.S. Dean's fucked up speech in Iowa killed him.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. as did gore....

i think the media killed dean in the same way they killed kerry

[Jacobin]

31. I suppose you forgot the Dean loves Osama ad that

"unknown parties" ran in Iowa.

:eyes:

[Telly Savalas]

34. If he couldn't handle the long knives of other Democrats...

how would he have dealt with Rove and the gang?

I think Dean would have made an excellent president and I hope he wins the DNC chair, but let's be realistic.

[rockymountaindem]

17. Wow, "Kerryunderground" and anti-Semitism references in one post?

It's like you saw a small flame and thought "You know what that needs, bleach!"

Nice try, but I'm not falling for it.

[emulatorloo]

20. No, it is IHateAllDemocratsEspeciallyJohnKerry.com

:nopity:

[Laurab]

67. That's what I've been thinking too

Except I couldn't quite name it like you did. IHateAllDemocratsEspeciallyJohnKerry.com, except, it can change in the blink of an eye to : IHateAllDemocratsMostlyButTodayILikeKerrytomorrowIMightHateHimAgain.com.

Just depends on the day.

[ErinGoBraghLess]

21. Two Camps

Sometimes I think we need a special posting place for those folks who want to just accept that Kerry was perfect but had the election stolen from him. Then we need another posting place for people who can actually think critically about the party and try to find ways to improve it. You don't get better results by using the same strategy even though you keep losing with it.

[Telly Savalas]

35. Then where would the people that want to bitch and moan about everything..

without offering any constructive criticism go?

[GalleryGod]

39. Great Screen name! Even Better home town!

I toiled at Goucher College in those halcyon days of yesteryear,the early 90's! Love Towson.

[ErinGoBraghLess]

45. Towson

Thanks! I enjoy Towson too -- kind of like a mini-Baltimore in terms of restaurants and bars and stores, but a lot nicer.

[MsTryska]

23. kerry is all-knowing and perfect and wonderful.

how dare you impugn his integrity?!

[Fla Dem]

55. LOL...made me laugh, made me laugh.... thank you n/t

[MsTryska]

63. *lol* your welcome!

i do still think Kerry is wonderful tho.


jsut odn't ask me to sit through any of his speeches.

[Fla Dem]

73. I'm a big supporter of him too. Wasn't sure if you were

being sarcastic, tongue in cheek, or just funny. I decided on funny.

[MsTryska]

75. hah...funny is good...

it was a little of all of the above i think.


plus it gave me an opportunity to use condie's catchphrase. :p

[AntiCoup2K4]

56. Not only that, but

**John Kerry single handedly defeated communism, Hitler, the gray aliens, and the Bush Criminal Empire (even though they won one election and stole two after he defeated them).

John Kerry was crucified for our sins and He rose from the dead just in time to expose corruption in the Roman Empire on the third day.

And don't you forget it, or I"LL ALERT ON YOU, DAMN IT!!









**- deeply sarcastic post, but not far removed from some that have appeared on this board.

[ClassWarrior]

60. Seriously... how dare ANYONE here impugn ANY Dem's integrity??

If one doesn't believe the Dems have integrity, or one wishes to trash (or "impugn" to use your synonym) the integrity of Dems, then doesn't one belong on Le Free Republique, and not here ON AN EXPLICITLY DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE BOARD??

Duh.

NGU.

[sandnsea]

28. One nice day for Kerry

And it's suddenly KerryUnderground. You really can't take ONE DAY of nice things being said about Kerry??? :eyes:

[Redleg]

32. It goes the other way to, skullhead.

There are folks here who wouldn't say a nice thing about Kerry if they were paid to do it.

[LittleClarkie]

36. And there are some of us cowed about saying nice things about Kerry

If there is a cooling effect, it works both ways.

Personally, I post anyway. If somebody wants to wuss out because they're afraid what they have to say isn't popular, that's no skin off my beak.

I posted pro-Kerry during the worst of the shitstorm after the election. They should just post what they feel. People will agree and people will disagree. I'll try to criticize rather than snark and I hope others will do the same. If I think someone is being unfair or enjoying their bash a bit too much I will say something. Simple as that. Since I tend to trade snark for snark, anyone is welcome to call me on my hypocracy. I know it's there, but when I get wound up, I get blind.

[Der Blaue Engel]

38. And dare I say it...

There are folks here who are paid to say not nice things about Kerry. I'm not sayin' who, mind you. I'm just sayin' it.

[Still_Loves_John]

37. That's unfair

Just cause the Kerry supporters finally got our backbone back doesn't mean we're brownshirts. There's nothing wrong with criticising Kerry, we're just not putting up with the almost automatic negativity of some people here.

[zulchzulu]

40. If you lie about Kerry, I'll call you on it...but he's not "perfect"

If you say he has done "nothing" about the post-election results, I'll pounce on your lies.

If you say he voted "for the war", I'll pounce on your lies.

If you say he is a flip-flopper, I'll pounce...and pounce again. Great Googleymoogley...

Other than that, I'm for a reasonable discussion about Kerry if it isn't full of bullshit about him.

I would do the same thing if you accused other candidates wrongly.

[TheDonkey]

43. Democratic Underground with people who support Kerry

like me. If you want to bash him I'd suggest you go to FreeRepublic, I'm sure you'll have a grand ol time.

[justy329]

44. This is the Democratic Underground

which means we musn't be critical of the man who served his country his entire life and beat the odds to be our nominee.
While Kerry fell short, he seems to have emerged as energized as ever! He asked his supporters to call Hastert and Frist about election reform. He called for Rummy's removal and for had the guts to oppose Rice. (That took cajones, folks.)

I, for one, am so sick of this forum for Democrats to talk about their party in a sensible manner being turned into a breeding ground for far left-wing kooks. Some of your posts are so over the top, you make me uncomforable to be a Democrat. (Just as I'm sure the kooks on the right turn of mainstream Republicans also.)

[ClassWarrior]

54. Far left-wing kooks?? BULLSHIT.

The people who are trashing our own people are quite the opposite. They're parroting Progressive values, but they're really Radical RW exports from Le Free Republique. Why do you think they're so "over the top," in your words?...

NGU.

[AntiCoup2K4]

57. Took you a whole 30 posts to get "so sick of this forum"??

Well then imagine how some of us feel after seeing thousands of posts of Freep infiltrator/DLC intern/cult worshipping horseshit.

NOTE to mods: In no way am I implying the previous poster is a Freep infiltrator or a cultist. :)

[ClassWarrior]

58. Of COURSE you aren't, Anti...

;)

NGU.

[Vektor]

46. I can't lie...

I'd f*ck the stuffing out of him, but feel free to be less enthusiastic!

[MsTryska]

64. heh.

nice one.

[Vektor]

68. Tee-hee

Thanks...
;-)

[Califooyah Operative]

47. please....

Kerry bashing has been going on for months. Its just a good news day, and his supporters are happy, we see the same thing with dean, boxer and anyone of these folks who have an active base.

[GRLMGC]

65. but we're not allowed to be happy

or call out bullshit when it is bullshit because then we're persecuting anyone who doesn't like him. We're bad, bad people

[DrGonzoLives]

48. Well

Right now, it's AnyDemocratWhoVotesForRiceShouldBeDestroyed.com

[johnnyrocket]

50. Kerry made mistakes, Kerry wasn't connecting with a lot

of people, Kerry was BY FAR the better candidate, but Bush's scare tactics, and Kerry's lack of skill in connecting to more people proved disastrous on election day.

[ClassWarrior]

53. Last time I looked, Kerry was a Democrat.

Along with all the rest of the people your friends like to trash, like Russ Feingold, Barack Obama, Senator Clinton, etc.

NGU.

[Jackie97]

59. I think the main issue....

is that people here think Bush is the anti-Christ and that Kerry is the messiah.

Well, Bush might be the anti-Christ, but we have to save our own damn selves!

I didn't mind looking into stuff like voter fraud and going along with the others for a while. It's just that now I'm fearing that the progressive movement will spend the next four years trying to get Bush out of office (which probably won't happen unless we can get some hard evidence to impeach him) instead of pushing against his policies. I'm afraid that Bush will be free to do whatever the hell he wants to because his policies won't be that challenged by progressives; only the validity of his presidency.

And yes, it is dumb to claim somebody's anti-semitic for criticizing Zionism. When I first joined the anti-war and pro-Palestinian movement, I really hated how I was considered a traitor just for not thinking like the others. Now, I feel like the same is going on here now.

[NVMojo]

61. marketing efforts for Rove are impressive in a Dem format.

make us look like political neandrathals, just go on. Air your dirty laundry.

Once again, did you have your public service to our country, your service in Viet Nam, smeared across the nation because you stood out front for the rest of us? I doubt it. Give the man some respect. He took the hits from the neocons for us.

To take back this country now, we are gonna take even more smears and hits as a group. Try to not give them any ammunition. They will do just find digging up shit as it is.

[Pork Chop]

69. I actually did vote for the 87 billion, before I voted against it

He really did do some stupid things, and although I'm still pissed that he lost, I gotta put some of the blame on Kerry. I hope we run Hillary in 08 instead of Kerry again. If Kerry gets nominated again, I'll start preparing for 2012.

[rodeodance]

70. just a gut feeling but many American's are not ready for a women for prez

[Karmadillo]

71. Good job. Keep those Republican talking points alive. When that one

grows stale, I like to remind everyone Kerry got a Purple Heart for a self-inflicted wound. It's not true, but no reason not to post it as often as possible.

[blm]

72. Only Republican kool-aid drinkers didn't understand that vote.

It wasn't stupid, it was accurate.

Kerry voted FOR a bill that had ACCOUNTABILITY for the money Bush wanted, especially for the armor promised.

Kerry voted AGAINST the bill that had NO accountability for the 87 billion dollars, some 8 billion of which has been reported missing and unaccounted for in Iraq while the military complains there is no armor that was promised.

BTW...by that standard, Bush was AGAINST the 87 billion before he was for it. He threatened to veto the bill if it was written with the accountability language.

[Vinnie From Indy]

74. LOL These Posts Are Silly!

Would you like an order of "cries" with your "Waaaa burger"?