Bush stabbed Putin in the back.

[kentuck]

And Putin knows it. Better get a taste tester George. Be careful what you drink. Putin knows a few tricks from his old days at KGB.

How smart was it to try and lecture another leader on "democracy" - in hopes of creating some type of division within his country? Especially when he is smart enough to look into your eyes and see your intent?

I think Georgie has made a big mistake with his little propaganda ploy. Putin is not someone you want on the other side. We may have to pay with more American lives because of this little game of Bush and the neo-cons.

[Zuni]

1. Putin and Bush deserve each other

they are both major league assholes.

[aquart]

2. Putin is playing George.

All his trade and arms deals show it. He ain't waiting for Georgie to give him permission to breathe.

The US is being marginalized and doesn't even notice.

[Elidor]

11. Exactly

All this talk about democracy is bs. Russia is working to counter US influence around the globe, with Iran and with Europe. Dubya is increasingly ignored. His little tirade was the only way he could lash out at a geopolitical enemy.

Little George is out of his depth.

I forgot to add: when Dubya says "democracy" he invariably means US geopolitical and business interests. And THAT is what Putin is obstructing.

[LittleClarkie]

34. Would that go for Europe as well

It seems they are forming a more perfect Union, to our detriment as well. One can hardly blame them. It is their only defense.

[Elidor]

51. Indeed.

I applaud them. They would be fools to support US hegemony.

[calimary]

3. The problem here is that bush has grown so accustomed to swaggering

around doing the "Mine's BIGGER" strut, and nobody's ever called him on it, and he's never been forced to eat his words, and he's always gotten his own way. So this is the only thing he knows. He can't help it, and by now, he doesn't see any need or reason to help it. Nor can anyone among the multitudes of enablers and apologists he surrounds himself with. So he's setting himself up for a mighty big blow. When the chickens come home to roost, I hope I'm at a safe distance (with LOTS of popcorn and M&Ms).

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Exactly

He also recently questioned Russia's press and asked if they were really independent and free. LOL! He just doesn't get it. I heard about this on an AAR news report.

[Guaranteed]

4. "I can roll this guy."

Remember that? :P

[fooj]

6. No. Do tell!

[Guaranteed]

10. The rumor was, back when Pooty Poot first met Bush, he turned

to one of his aides and said that.

[fooj]

49. Thanks for the info...

[rniel]

50. Believe me he sure could

He's been involved in martial arts his whole life. Was a KGB agent. He's a bad mofo.

[fooj]

5. Last night I watched a clip of Shrub and Putin...

when "the righteous one" went on and on about democracy I nearly gagged-and then they zoomed in on Putin. He shot Shrub a look (however discreetly) that could stop a train. I giggled and told my husband "Let him keep screwing with Putin!" Shrub is way out of his league. Oh well!

[Mandate My Ass]

7. More like a sucker punch

But Putin will slip it quietly to George, I have absolutely no doubt.

That was the biggest f**k up of the whole trip, a huge miscalculation. The cowboy certainly went out with a bang.

[Straight Shooter]

8. The chickenhawk screeched at the bear.

The bear will let the chickenhawk play its games, as long as it benefits the bear. Putin thinks bush is an a**. Putin will be able to bring more powers to his side of the table. He is a cold-blooded, deliberate leader. bush has no clue.

[DinahMoeHum]

13. Tee hee. Putin is playing Bush for. . .well, a bush. . .

:evilfrown:

[kodi]

9. sure, that'll slow down Russian armaments to Syria and Venezuela

what is it with Bush? he lives in some upside-down Bizarro world where what should not be done is SOP for the Busheviks

[Bostonian]

14. so Bush should not have supported Yushchenko?

Bush supported the democratically elected Yushchenko.

Was that "bizarro"?

Should that not have been done?

[K-W]

18. Dont change the subject.

And yes, sometimes US strategic interests coincide with being right, that doesnt make our strategic interests ethical.

If the incumbent had been pro-western, we would have subverted democracy. We just lucked out and the western candidate was the less corrupt.

[Bostonian]

20. I was on subject

I was responding to the poster who said anything Bush did was wrong.

[K-W]

35. Actually you just made that up.

The poster you replied to did not say that.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[K-W]

40. You just proved my point.

Indeed, he said he didnt like what Bush said in this particular situation, pointing out the hypocrisy of what Bush said.

Nothing he said could be remotely mistaken for saying that everything Bush has ever said was wrong, or even that everything Bush has ever said regarding the countries near Russia was wrong.

Nothing in that post could possibly be taken to mean that Bush was wrong to support Yushenko. That was completely invented by you.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[K-W]

44. You are missing honesty.

You want me to believe that any honest person could read that and think he was making a serious argument that Bush has never said anything right in his life?

First off, the words cant possibly mean what you say. Standard operating procedure does not mean everything they do. So you couldnt possibly mistake that.

Not to mention that even if he had said what you claim, it would be obvious hyperbole. Even a broken watch is right twice a day etc.

[leesa]

22. The only reason it was done was as cover for the voter fraud in US

What was going on here while they were publicly bleating "democracy"?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

29. Why don't you just bend over???

And let George do to you what the Colorado representative suggested?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

32. Not as much as the FL fraud of 2000...

Did you have a problem with that also??

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[kodi]

53. let me explain slowly so even you can understand it.

Russia is not America's friend. Got it?

Each country has self interests that run along parallel lines; as in lines that never met.

The Russians have repaid their loans from western nations and banks are are embarking on a new phase of hegemony for "greater Russia." They are making money from selling nuclear technologies to Iran and are arming both the Syrian army and that of Venezuela with conventional weapons. From these sales they are earning cold, hard cash.

The US does not want Iran to acquire nuclear technologies sufficient that such technologies can be converted to use for the manufacture of nuclear weapons.

It takes a special breed of idiot who thinks that the best way to reduce tensions in the Middle East and reduce the flow of nuclear technologies would be to antagonize and piss off the one nation that has already supplied arms and nuclear technologies to the region.

That Russia has few of the accoutrement's of a western style democracy or measures up poorly versus the democracy of Ukraine is hardly the point, since wide berth is given to such "allies" as Egypt, and Saudi Arabia who arguably have even more prehistoric forms of government.

This is not even a matter of Real Politik. it is simply a matter of Bush being consistent in declaring his desire to prevent a nuclear Iran and a maintain a weak Syria and Venezuela.

[DemoTex]

12. Miserable Failure ... I paraphrase Sidney Blumenthal

President Bush has reached a dead end in his foreign policy, but he has failed to recognise his quandary. His belief that the polite reception he received in Europe is a vindication of his previous adventures is a vestige of fantasy. (snip..)

The Europeans, including the British government, feel privately that the past three years have been hijacked by Iraq. Facing the grinding, bloody and unending reality of Iraq doesn't mean accepting Bush's original premises, but getting on with the task of stability. Ceasing the finger-pointing is the basis for European consensus on its new, if not publicly articulated, policy: containment of Bush. Naturally, Bush misses the nuances and ambiguities.

Of course, he has already contained himself, or at least his pre-emption doctrine, which seems to have been good for one-time use only. None of the allies is willing to repeat the experience. Bush can't manage another such military show anyway, as his army is pinned down in Iraq.

The problem of Iran is in many ways the opposite of Iraq. The Europeans have committed their credibility to negotiations, the Iranians have diplomatic means to preclude unilateral US action, and Bush - who, according to European officials, has no sense of what to do - is boxed in, whether he understands it or not. (more ..)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1424849,00.html

Bu$h and Condi are way, way out of their league with Europeans in general and Vladimir Putin in particular.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. Something I think would be funny

is if Bush screws up so bad (like he usually does) and Russia, France and Germany end up cleaning up Bush's mess and he'd be remembered as the person who didn't ever do anything.

[Bostonian]

15. Would you be happier if Bush had gone along with Putin?

Would it have been better if Bush had just pretended everything was just fine with Putin?

If so, why is that better?

[Bridget Burke]

21. We would be happier if Democracy had been honored in 2000.

Bush would be back in Texas, Gore would be starting his second term in the White House, & the WTC would still be standing. Quite a few more Americans, Iraqis & Afghanis would still be alive.

And we might have a team in Washington that could do real diplomacy. Instead of a gang of venal fools, preaching Democracy while planning the next war.

Since you asked what would make us happy. Thanks for the concern!

[Bostonian]

23. That's a change of subject

Was Bush right to call Putin out or should he have continued to go along with him?

I'm glad he has criticized Putin.

[Sparkly]

25. He should have called him out on the priority issues

such as Russia's deals with Iran, for example, not fussing over whether or not their democracy suits him.

Meanwhile, he waxed quite poetic and flowery about how trustworthy "Pootie-Poot" is and what a great relationship they have (again).

In other words, he was overly smoochy where he should have been tough (Iran, basic diplomatic relationship between leaders, not a lovefest) and pissy where he should have been careful (Russia's democracy).

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Bridget Burke]

47. Bush's comments about "Democracy" & "Freedom"

Are irrelevant blather. The world regards him as a dangerous idiot.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Don't forget

that we also would be having a beautiful economy now. Someone on some show I was listening to (I think Bernie Ward) had a caller and he was saying if a democrat was president in 2000 9/11 wouldn't have happened because the economy would've been booming with security from air ports to our boarders. (sigh) What could've been....

[kentuck]

24. Would it have been better...?

"Would it have been better if Bush had just pretended everything was just fine with Putin?"

or

"Would it have been better if we just pretend everything was just fine with Bush? Bush worshipping mother fuckers make me sick.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

33. He's making the world more unstable.....

Not safe for "democracy"....What issue don't you support Bush on?

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

45. Just curious....

And where do you agree?

[K-W]

36. That is a false choice.

How about we neither lecture them stupidly nor condone Putin's bad moves.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[knight_of_the_star]

55. He shouldn't have been so clumsy about it

There is a difference between calling someone out and just plain pissing them off. Bush doesn't seem to know said difference.

[Cocoa]

19. he stabbed him pretty softly

[Lexingtonian]

26. Naw, just desperate swordwavings

What Dubya was trying to do was tell Pooty Poot that he might just get "Ukrained" one of these days. A less than entirely credible threat, but still a problem for Putin- the Ukraine thing sent a lot of shock and fear through the remaining post-Soviet oligarch governments nearby and made them realize their shakiness. Russia has an electorate that is far more imperialist and reactionary than all the other republics, though, so Putin is safe on the whole but it would take a lot of time and energy of his to fight down such a problem. So it's dirty, and desperate, of Bush to play this card.

This seems mostly to have taken place because Pooy Poot has been doing such unkind things as setting up to sabotage Bushie designs on Iran (a revolt/coup against the mullahs with American commando help, requiring a pile of air transport and some bombing runs) by selling the Iranians a nice shining bunch of excellent new antiaircraft equipment, exactly timed and in the right quantity and quality to ruin the fairly transparent plan.

[x_y_no]

46. Don't eat any cream-based soups ...

n/t

[Lisa]

48. not that anybody would notice ...

Besides, they'd still be in shock from his usual facial expressions, never mind the bruises and boils.

http://www.hail-to-the-thief.org/gallery.html

[Gloria]

52. Putin has some trouble brewing at home-- forces against him emerging....

Two stories from the current World Media Watch....



1//The Moscow Times, Russia Friday, February 25, 2005. Issue 3113. Page 1.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/02/25/001.html



KASYANOV HINTS HE MAY RUN IN 2008

By Valeria Korchagina and Catherine Belton, Staff Writers



Breaking a year of silence, former Prime Minister Mikhail Kasyanov on Thursday slammed Russia's leadership for turning away from democracy and indicated he may run for president in 2008 in order to correct the nation's course.



"Everything is possible," Kasyanov said at a news conference in answer to a direct question on whether he plans to bid for the presidency in 2008.



"The main thing is not who it is going to be, the main thing is that whoever comes to power spearheads a movement toward democratic values," Kasyanov said as he made his first step back onto the political stage since losing his post one year ago to the day.

(snip)

But after ridding himself of much of the old elite and gathering power, Putin had a disastrous start to his second term.


(SNIP)


Kasyanov's return to big politics is a sign parts of Russia's political elite may be ready to challenge Putin's previously unshakable power, said Lilia Shevtsova, political analyst with the Carnegie Moscow Center.



"This means one very serious thing: that not just Kasyanov but the Russian political class felt the weakness of the current regime," Shevtsova said. "They felt the weakness of Putin. They felt that the moment had come when they could come back on the political stage."


(MORE)

RELATED: YOUTH GROUPS SAY ITS TIME TO OPPOSE PUTIN http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/02/25/002.html

Two liberal youth movements joined forces on Thursday in their fight against President Vladimir Putin's policies and claimed the time was right for a mass pro-democracy movement in Russia similar to those in Ukraine and Serbia. (MORE)

[knight_of_the_star]

56. Three years is a long time

Long enough for Putin to throw a monkeywrench in the works.

[seabeyond]

54. a game the two play. i think georgie got putin in the back

with ukraine? election and putin knows that. will be interesting to see what putin comes back with