Carville and I agree on something finally......

[madfloridian]

I just heard him say it was probably a good idea for Sebellius to distance herself from Howard Dean in Lawrence, KS tonight.

I agree, as it shows who the real Democrats are. Carville, and Sebellius, apparently, do not want to have a connection to Dean as the chair of the DNC.

So I agree with James Carville.....it was good thing. Two Democrats just showed their true colors. And Dean went there into unfriendly territory and will do it again..

I am a real Democrat, and I am not ashamed of our chairman. I am sorry Carville and Sebellius are. That is sad.

On Edit, this was the first part of Crossfire. I have not watched it in ages, sorry I did.

[President Jesus]

1. yes, stoking the fires of division and 'purity' is a perfect strategy

[madfloridian]

9. They stoked them, I did not. I am not. I am pointing out what he said.

.

[Cha]

20. I'm guessing "president jesus" meant

carville and sebillius.

[madfloridian]

22. That is what I hope.

:hi:

[President Jesus]

27. "I am a real Democrat...I am sorry Carville and Sebellius are."

yes, self-righteously proclaiming who is and isn't a 'real' Democrat doesn't divide people.

You may not see eye-to-eye with James Carville on some issues, but to claim that he is anything but a real Democrat is simply retarded. That guy has done more for this party than, well, you.

It's terrific that you are a Dean supporter, but at some point you have to come to grips with the fact that the vast majority of Democrats do not see him as lord and savior. (If they did, he would have won more than one state in the primaries.)

This 'real' Democrat talk is seriously off-putting to those people you need to win over to your side if you truly want the party to change.

Just sayin'.

[madfloridian]

32. I think you need to read my post again.

I admit I do not care for Carville, and he has often not helped our cause on Crossfire. I think that is my right.

I criticized for the distancing, as it is a very silly thing to do. In fact, as it turns out the governor did join Dean at a breakfast. So she actually did not completely take Carville's advice.

If he is going to be on TV as a Democratic spokesman, he needs not to insult the party chair.

Jumping all over me does not change the fact that he did just that today.

I am sick to death of not being considered a serious Democrat because we supported Dean. Someone else pulled that one today. That is just ridiculous. He has worked his butt off for the party, and so have we. We are donating now to the DNC and DFA and helping twice as much as some. That is one way to look at it.

Carville should not insult the party chairman on national TV. Bottom line.

[BurtWorm]

13. Who's stoking the fires of division?

Imagine Novak agreeing that a Republican governor not be caught dead with Mehlman. You can't? Neither can I.

[madfloridian]

16. Exactly. I will speak out when they go on TV and say dumb things.

I have always done that, and I will still do it.

A governor simply does not refuse to appear with the DNC chair. It is not like Howard Dean was of questionable character, or not a good man.

If this is true, and it appears to be, then it is petty politics. I am glad he is above that.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

26. yeah you're right, carville is stroking divisions of fire

nt

[Warpy]

2. That's going to happen a lot

because the DLC is deeply entrenched in the party. If he's able to neutralize them, we may be able to heal the party.

The DLC types may have important things to add in the future. However, their leadership has been an utter disaster for the party and for working people everywhere.

The DLC and people who cast their lot with them really need to step down for now. If they don't, there will be no party left.

[KittyWampus]

3. Your Vague Non-Quote Makes It Hard To Reply Insightfully.

although if you hate Carville it might be fun to pile on.

[madfloridian]

6. Here is the best I can do:

Novak, the great, showed a really good clip of Dean speaking, said he would be in Lawrence tonight, and then very smugly said that Gov. Sebellius would not be seen with him. This is a good point, since Dean has been there for two days.

Carville simply said that was a good idea.

[NYCGirl]

8. We'll just have to check the transcript later. But it sounds right. NT

[PROGRESSIVE1]

4. kick

[WI_DEM]

5. It is silly for the governor of Kansas to snub the chair of the DNC

especially when he is coming into her state to try and involve the national party in a 50-state electoral strategy instead of an 18-state strategy. She doesn't need to be efusive of him if she doesn't want to, but she could at least acknowledge his efforts.

[melissinha]

10. Thanks Wi Dem

My thoughts exactly. We can't afford to snub each other.... the Republicans always stick together.... stubbornly at that.... we need to reveal the Republican agenda is not Christian and that the Democratic at its core is. We don't judge people for their sexual orientation, race or religion.... if you believe in God you know that they KNOW that only judge has the right to judge.

Of course there are more issues than Christianity but that was on my mind.

She is undermining his strategy and is just showing that some Democrats can't even work amongst themselves.

[joeybee12]

7. You know, Carville has a great mind for strategy, but why the phuck

has he been sitting on the sidelines while we're losing elections? Does it help him to be part of the minority party, just to be able to sell his books? Is there more money in losing?

[melissinha]

11. YEAH!

I Thought he was the miracle man... he was so obviously absent.... what gives... ?

[Jamastiene]

12. I have been thinking about that too.

He's repsonsible for getting Clinton elected and now he does nothing.

[BurtWorm]

14. He doesn't do nothing.

He writes books that don't sell. :shrug:

[NYCGirl]

15. I think Carville's afraid that someone, somewhere will have a Democratic

success that he's not part of.

[Bouncy Ball]

23. BINGO!!! NYCGirl hit the nail on the HEAD.

Carville is a Dem, but he's got an ego the size of North Dakota.

[K-W]

24. Even carville cant think far enough outside the box

to see reality with his head so far in the washington bubble.

[Pepperbelly]

17. What is a "Sebellius"?

Isn't that what they used to give me in college so I'd know how the class was organized?

Screw James. He's in the wilderness right now, disconnected from his roots and it is despair-inducing to see the way he has become.

[ZootSuitGringo]

18. Maybe that's what happens when you go to bed with a

Republican operative everynight. I can't see how talking to his wife everyday would give Carville any insight into anything. The guy has outlived his usefulness, if you ask me.

[Cha]

21. Bing-freakin-go!

:toast:

[Cha]

19. I can't wait for carville to eat a big

plate of crow..

Good way to stand behind the DNC Chair and at least give him a chance..

carville's face is all scrunched from too many Sour Grapes.x(

[no name no slogan]

25. Carville is an asshat-- no matter what he did for Clinton

Remember, this is the same Clinton who never won a majority of the popular vote, who sold out working people with NAFTA and "most favored nation" trade status with China, and ended "welfare as we know it".

Carville was also a "consultant" to the anti-Chavez opposition in Venezuela, who tried to have the legitimate government overthrown, both militarily and through a referendum (neither of which were successful).

Carville is a symptom of what's wrong with the party: self-centered, power-brokering, "image"-focused, non-issue-oriented "Feel Good" style of politics that doesn't stand for anything, but will say everything, just to get elected.

Good riddance to bad garbage, I say.

[Zhade]

30. Indeed. Carville is just a pawn of the Dem imperialists.

His wife, meanwhile, is a pawn of the Repub imperialists.

In conclusion, fuck them both.

[seabeyond]

28. they are doing exactly what the repugs suggested dems do

this group of people willing go with repugs telling dems what to do and they are the ones hurting the dems. dems all should stand behind dean to be deanicratics if that is what repugs what to call the democrats and fuck them. repugs look to divide and these people did it obligingly. what is that

[madfloridian]

29. Found this at The Note today...just one line.

SNIP...."Chairman Dean, the Democrats, and liberals:
In Kansas, the AP ends its story on Dean's Jayhawk walk by stating that Gov. Kathleen Sebelius wasn't there to welcome Gov. Dean. LINK

But wait: she'll be there this morning at a breakfast fundraiser in Wichita.

Local coverage was generally balanced: LINK

The NRSC sent a long memo yesterday dredging up several of Dean's now-infamous quotes about gays, with the hoped effect of portraying any Democrat who stands with him as out of step with mainstream values.

Is there a national Republican plan to use the presence of Howard Dean atop the DNC to hurt the party? (Are we naïve to even ask that question?)

Is there a national Democratic plan to counter any Republican plan to use Dean to hurt the Democratic Party he leads? (Are we naïve to even think that that could be true?)

And will Dean comment tonight on Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline's attempt to obtain patient files of women who underwent late-term abortions? LINK "
Embedded links at the site.

About half way down the page.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=156238

[Zhade]

31. Another, related, question...

Is there a national Democratic plan to counter any DLC plan to use Dean to hurt the Democratic Party he leads?

[madfloridian]

33. I noticed that question, too. I seriously doubt it.

We need to stop putting people on TV who are unable to speak powerfully and clearly.

[Zhade]

34. ...or who have a different, undemocratic agenda than the grassroots.

NT!

[madfloridian]

35. Trancript excerpt:

While Novak and Carville were speaking a video of Dean speaking was playing in the background. I do not know what Carville means by he got 62%. I must not be very attentive. I only caught the lack of defense. Novak attacked, Carville dropped the ball by using just one word in his defense.

SNIP..."Howard Dean, the new Democratic national chairman, has kept his first promise. He's off on a tour of the so-called red states. He's currently in Kansas, one of the reddest states, where George W. Bush got 62 percent of the vote and a state which no Democrat has carried for president since 1964.

Now, Kansas actually has a Democratic governor, Kathleen Sebelius. Tonight, Dr. Dean addresses a $5 -- I said $5 -- a-ticket rally in a movie theater in Lawrence. Will Governor Sebelius be there? No siree. She's in the same town, Lawrence, marking the anniversary of a college fieldhouse. She won't come close to her party chairman during his two days in the state. Kathleen Sebelius is no dummy.

CARVILLE: Is that the Phog Allen Fieldhouse on the campus of the University of Kansas?

NOVAK: That's right.

CARVILLE: Great tradition.

NOVAK: Fiftieth anniversary, yes.

CARVILLE: They play -- they play Oklahoma State...

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: Do you think she's smart keeping away from Howard?

CARVILLE: Probably. He got 62 percent.

(LAUGHTER)

CARVILLE: You know, I mean, I'm just reading this book. What's the matter with -- Kansas is a great state. By the way, Lawrence, Kansas, one of the nicest towns I've been in. And a lot of Democrats are there, too. I will guarantee...

CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: That's why they get so many votes.

CARVILLE: Good program there. Democrats do well in Lawrence. That's about it, but we do well in Lawrence.

(LAUGHTER)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/25/cf.01.html