Lindsay Graham just outmanuevered the Bush Admin re: Soc. Sec.

[Leilani]

Ha...it was beautiful.

He crossed the aisle to join Kent Conrad, to work on Soc Sec.

He proposed a budget amendment about the viability of the program, with the main provision, NO Benefit Cuts.

Conrad approved & called for ALL Dems to join &vote AYE.

Sen Boxer went to the floor & congragulated Graham & joined the discussion. Also gave the Dems a chance to say what a CHANGE this was..A Republican working with Dems.

The vote was 100-0. The Republicans couldn't vote against it.

I think Bush may order a fatwa against Lindsay Graham...the powers that be are not happy with him.

Under LBN, Greenspan called for Benefit Cuts in Soc.Sec...now all the Republicans have voted against Benefit Cuts.

[mimitabby]

1. link??

thanks

[Leilani]

3. No link yet...

It is live on C-Span 2.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. Lindsay will "stay off of small planes" if he knows what's....

"good" for him.

[coloradodem2005]

4. Thank you Senator Graham!!!!!

[CoffeeCat]

BWWHAHAHAHA!!!!

You enjoy the rest of your 60-state SocialSecurityPalooza tour---Mr. President!!!!!!!!!

LOLOL!!!!

Good luck with that!!!!

[On the Road]

21. Per Josh Marshall,

make that "Bamboozlepalooza Tour."

[CoffeeCat]

23. That's perfect...Bamboozlepalooza. Love it. (nt)

[calimary]

29. Let's hope bush has to call it the "I'mgonnalooza" tour.

We CANNOT let down our guard on this one.

[SoCalDem]

43. Retirement Roulette Tour

:)

[HereSince1628]

5. George...Beware the .the Ides of March! Et tu Lindsay?

I think Graham just stuck the Emperor!

[ailsagirl]

66. That's right-- it IS the ides of March... hee hee

[ClassWarrior]

6. Victory is so SWEEEEEEEEEET.

Here's to many more!

NGU.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. OK..Who was that, and what have they done with the REAL Lindsay Graham?

I agree, he better stay off small planes and out of motel rooms.

[JI7]

8. Lindsay Graham has always been more moderate leaning

still very conservative. but among southern Republicans especially he leans more moderate than many others. particularly on fiscal issues.

[Leilani]

13. He's one of the few "Mavericks"

He has proposed raising the cap on Soc Sec Taxes...leaving a "donut hole" above $90,000, to go after higher income people.

If you live in NY, San Fran, LA, Hawaii, etc. $90,000 is not wealthy anymore.

[EVDebs]

62. Back in Reagan's day they took David Stockman to the woodshed

for telling the truth...just think of the sadistic stuff Frist and 'The Hammer' have in store for rational thinking Republicans...I dare say even DUers could dream up what these powermad greedbuckets have in mind for anyone who steps out of line.

[Clark2008]

71. It's also been rumored that he's gay, which might explain why

he's more moderate.
I have no earthly idea if he is - and, frankly, I don't care - but he might just be one of those Log Cabiners who FINALLY understands that the Republican Party would gas-chamber gays if they had half the chance.

I may be barking up the wrong tree, here, but it's a thought.

In any case, CONGRATS GRAHAM! Thanks for making us Southerners look more respectable!! :)

[seabeyond]

16. i have been surprised by graham enough

to say cool to graham. he has butted heads with bush and agenda more than once. had a tough time with him during impeachment, why i am surprised everytime. but has happened enough, tells me he has some common sense

[blm]

18. I think he promised blogactive some cooperation for not outing him

as they threatened a few months back.

If he was going to do something cooperative, then what better issue than one where Bush's way is so unpopular?

Lindsey has nothing to lose by doing this. The GOP isn't going to out him in retaliation. Most hate Bush's plan, too.

[nonconformist]

32. Graham was quite impressive during the Abu Ghraib scandal

He has his moments.

[CarolNYC]

40. I agree

I have been unexpectedly impressed with Graham from time to time. Abu Graib one was of those times. This is another. How refreshing to find a Republican willing to stand up for what he believes rather than propping the President up.

[Melodybe]

9. Call him and thank him #202 224 3121

we should always reward as well as punish.

Calling right now.

[ohtransplant]

28. Done!

And the staffer seemed surprised! There's something to be said for positive reinforcement.

[wryter2000]

10. Wow

Now, that's what I call bipartisanship.

[Leilani]

14. That's what was so amazing!

There were a couple of people on the floor, from different parties, talking TO each other.

Conrad & Boxer both praised him.

Seems Graham's parents died when he was young. He & his sister were saved by Survivor's Benefits.

He said it HAS to remain the same because too many people need it & depend on it.

[katinmn]

25. wow! a glimmer of hope

This may embolden other Republicans to disobey Bush/Rove.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[davsand]

11. They just dodged that third rail.

I'll bet you big cash that Graham just saved the GOP from certain death also known as touching that third rail known as Social Security cuts.

I'd bet you that more than one of the smarter GOP folks is calling him up right now and offering to kiss his feet.


Laura

[JackD76]

12. What was his plan?

[Leilani]

15. There is no final plan

But he is working with the Dems, trying to get one.

And I think he figures he can bring along a few non-wingnut Repubs.

But he wants to raise taxes above the cap.

[rodeodance]

20. good for him

[EC]

17. Maybe, I'm a cynic

I don't trust this...

[JackD76]

19. I think Graham

can be trusted, atleast from what i have seen from him. I think him, McCain, and Hagel are the most trustworthy republicans in the senate, but that doesn't mean that i like them. Maybe he is planning a 2008 presidental run?


One bad thing that will come of any social security reform right now, is that bush will say " Because of me, social security is fixed, and don't forget 9/11."

[Leilani]

27. Add Chafee, Snowe & Collins

Those are the people who will break with their party & on some issues & try to do the right thing.

[Donailin]

48. neither do I

there's an angle. there's always an angle.

[EVDebs]

22. It's either recind Bush's insane tax cuts to the rich or increase SS cap !

Pick your poison Mr. Bush !

[JackD76]

24. He isn't Licked Yet

Bush has a staff of the most evil geniuses in the world, i doubt that bush will give in so easily. He will probably threaten every member of congress into backing his "rape of social security" plan. My only advice to Graham is to keep your head down because you probably just pissed off retarded madman, i.e. Bush.

[tsuki]

50. It only takes one of great courage to stand.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Me.]

26. Oohwee

Lindsey's likely to be taken to the woodshed. But it was a brave move from a man who's more and more surprising. I hope he keeps on keeping on.

[EC]

30. We've got to remember what happened with the Medicare Bill

the desenters were blackmailed and bullied. The only difference I can see this time, is the public doesn't want it, and the Republicans may just say screw you to Bush, all the money you take from out campaigne funds won't mean a thing, if the people aren't going to vote for us anyway because of this stupid shit...Maybe, just maybe, some of them are getting worried, when does Graham run again, 2006 or 08? Those that run in 06 have allot to worry about following Bushy.

[Nothing Without Hope]

31. Many Repub congressmen have been worried about their popularity sinking

if they are associated with any SS benefit cuts. It is an extremely unpopular stance that they would not be forgiven for by their constituents, a natural to be brought up in campaigns against them. I imagine they were extremely relieved to be able to vote for this - they can say they "supported no benefit cuts to SS."

I expect the blivet** administration to come up with a weaselly way to insert this into a must-pass bill or do it by some around-the-bend rushed-vote bill. If it can't be done in the light of day, they'll do what they did with the Patriot Act.

So, how will they try to ramp up the fear that Social Security is failing and must be submitted to their loving care? Bush and everyone else in the administration has been sayiing it at every opportunity, but they are not believed. What horrible thing will they try to do to convince people that this lie is true? I'm sure schemes are being hatched. Because they will NOT accept defeat on this issue. There's too much loot involved and their greed is endless.

[TheFarseer]

46. Of course you realize

that since a repuke offered that amendment, now they can spin it that the repukes saved social security. And a few years from now when no one remembers this, they will be able to say teh democrats were trying to ruin social security and their side saved it!

[Nothing Without Hope]

52. In the Rethug universe, Truth is what you can get away with.

But in the meantime, the shark attack on Soc Sec has been headed off for the moment.

[pilgrimsoul]

33. Wow - Wonder if he has a chance in hell of getting the 2008 GOP nod

What a setup that would be. Can you imagine having to run against the guy who "saved" Social Security? Every bluehair in the country would vote for Lindsay Graham if the GOP had the sense to take advantage of this development and publicize it properly.

[lonestarnot]

70. NOT.

[Emit]

34. Trying to find more info on this, here's a press release from

Graham's website from Dec. of 2004:

http://lgraham.senate.gov/index.cfm?mode=presspage&id=229985

I didn't see the C-SPAN coverage, and now I wish I had, just to get a feel for what Graham and others are wanting/hoping to do here. Any ideas from others who've been following the SS issue more closely in light of this old press release? Was he just placating Bush then? I'm really not up on all of it (SS issues) as, I guess, I really should be. You've piqued my curiosity, though, with your post.

<<snip>>

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) today made the following statement on Social Security reform. “President Bush is absolutely right when he says you cannot save Social Security by raising payroll taxes.


<<snip>>

“The solution to the problem facing the system are the reforms being pushed by the President. They include optional personal investment accounts for younger workers along with other structural changes.
“The President is right, current retirees or those nearing retirement age, will not be affected by any future reforms. Their benefits will be protected.


“The President’s call for bipartisanship is essential as it is the only way we will save Social Security.... Under my plan, which has been evaluated by the Social Security Administration, we are able to achieve permanent solvency, but the transition costs are over $1 trillion.


“To garner bipartisan support, I am proposing we look at a mix of options to pay for the transition costs....“I am firmly convinced many Republicans and Democrats will embrace reasonable reform if the reforms do not rely on budget gimmicks or explode the deficit. “Four things are necessary to save Social Security – presidential leadership, bipartisan support, the rejection of rigid ideology preventing workable solutions, and shared sacrifice by the American people. President Bush is the right person at the right time to help save Social Security.


<<snip>>

[flpoljunkie]

38. Graham also said his amendment does not lock us to anything, as I recall.

Sounds like something a lawyer might say.

This is the only information as of now on the Senate website on the Graham amendment. Sounds totally vague. Perhaps they will put up the actual text of the amendment later.

On the Amendment (Graham Amdt. No. 152 As Modified )

Vote Number:
46

Vote Date:
March 15, 2005, 03:00 PM

Amendment Number:
S.Amdt. 152 to to S.Con.Res. 18 (Budget resolution FY2006 )

Statement of Purpose:

"To express the sense of the Senate regarding the urgent need for legislation to ensure the long-term viability of the Social Security program."


Vote Counts:
YEAs
100

NAYs
0

[fooj]

35. Well, I'll be damned! Someone doing the RIGHT THING for a change...

How refreshing!


Peace!

[wiggs]

36. Let's make a deal!

Democrats and moderate republicans will get the SS victory, but not without a price. Question is, what did we give up?

Is this a part of the bargain made when electoral votes were confirmed, explaining why so many democrats voted to certify Ohio votes?

Do we get SS but lose ANWR?

Do we get SS but lose on the fillibuster rule change?

Do we get SS and the coal companies get more relaxed mercury standards?


These things tend to be worked out in advance, IMO. Graham's stance is likely not a surprise to majority leaders.

[Robbien]

37. The USA Today article is saying something different

In an early test of sentiment on the issue, senators voted 100-0 for nonbinding language by Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., saying strengthening the giant pension system is "a vital national priority." Graham, who has sought bipartisan compromise on the issue, pointedly avoided the term "crisis," which Bush has used to objections by Democrats.

The provision also said lawmakers "should work together at the earliest opportunity to enact legislation to achieve a solvent and permanently sustainable Social Security system." It omitted details of how the program would be reshaped.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-03-15-senate-social-security_x.htm

[flpoljunkie]

39. Exactly as I thought. Thanks for posting.

[joanski01]

42. Yes, Graham did avoid the term "crisis",

which was good, and he also didn't put language in his amendment about privitization, which is why the Dems voted for it. At least they are off to a good start with this amendment.

[flpoljunkie]

45. "Nonbinding" language means exactly that..a feel good vote for both sides.

Just don't think this really has much significance--would it great if it did, though.

[Leilani]

49. I thought it was important

Because he said many times he will work with Kent Conrad. If several more Repubs split off, Bush cannot get his plan through.

There is no actual plan right now, but the reasonable people will fight on this one, I believe.

[flpoljunkie]

51. Let's hope so, Leilani. Private accounts would be 1st step to destroy SS!

[Leilani]

55. What I think is good:

Every Republican is on record now, as to No Lowering Benefits.

If they go back on their word, which they probably will, they can be pounded on their lies & hypocrisy.

[flpoljunkie]

58. Unfortunately, that is not what the amendment text states.

"To express the sense of the Senate regarding the urgent need for legislation to ensure the long-term viability of the Social Security program."

[Leilani]

59. Well, I watched the discussion

& Trent Lott went to the floor to disagree with Graham.

Also, what they discussed was no lowering of benefits.

While they were voting, C-Span had that caption on the bottom of the screen, explaining the vote, as "No lowering of benefits."

[flpoljunkie]

65. Bush's press secretary already touting Graham amendment as Bush victory

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38179-2005Mar15.html

All 100 senators voted in favor of another resolution offered by Graham, who has sought bipartisan compromise on the issue, that pointedly avoided referring to Social Security's financial state as a "crisis," a term which Bush has used to objections by Democrats.

The provision said lawmakers "should work together at the earliest opportunity to enact legislation to achieve a solvent and permanently sustainable Social Security system." It omitted details of how the program would be reshaped.

The White House seized on that vote, issuing a statement in which press secretary Scott McClellan said: "The president welcomes this strong commitment from every United States senator, and hopes that all members will now work together in a constructive and bipartisan way to make it happen this year."

[Emit]

57. Here's more from Graham's website re: personal accts:

From January '05

<<snip>>
I will continue to work with the President and others in developing a personal account component to Social Security that is structurally sound, affordable, doesn't rely on budgetary gimmicks, and bipartisan in nature. Personal accounts, combined with other reforms, will ensure Social Security is permanently solvent and sustainable.

"Personal accounts are a major element in Social Security reform and the establishment of these accounts will help millions of Americans build a nest egg for their retirement.

"The President's leadership in advocating the need for reform is indispensable. I look forward to working with him and others to turn Social Security reform into reality."
<<snip>>

http://lgraham.senate.gov/index.cfm?mode=presspage&id=230597

[joanski01]

41. I was convinced that Lindsey Graham

did a good thing when I heard Trent Lott say that "Senator Graham has stuck his neck out." He also said something like, I won't support that. But then he voted for Graham's amendment. Senator Graham replied to Trent Lott that he felt his political career was secure, but that he wanted to make sure that Social Security was secure.

Senator Graham said that he lost his mother at an early age, and then he lost his father. If the family didn't get the Social Security benefits, they would have been on very hard times. So Graham knows from experience how important Social Security is.

[CindyDale]

44. Lindsay Graham supports the president's plan, so this must be PR, no?

[DemoTex]

47. Maybe Graham saw Bu$h's polls on his SS plan.

Why hitch your wagon to a falling star?

[elizm]

61. Actually no...

I wrote to him about this some time ago and got a response. He has been in favor of raising the cap for a while now. Let's give him credit.

[flpoljunkie]

64. Yes, Graham in favor or raising the cap to pay for "personal" accounts.

This is unacceptable because creating "personal" accounts, whether financed by us or deficit spending, is the first step to destroying the guaranteed benefits of Social Security.

[CottonBear]

53. Wow! Thanks Senator Graham.

And just one thing: watch your back. Bu$hco probably doesn't like you very much right now.

[IronLionZion]

54. Lindsay Graham is no dumbass

He realizes how much his South Carolina constituents want to keep SS benefits. I imagine more Republicans will break with Bush on this one. And we can probably count on Dems uniting.

[Tace]

56. I Haven't Been Following This Closely -- But It Seems Like A Setup

for private accounts.

[elizm]

60. Believe he's genuine on this...

I have friends who went to high school with Graham. He did come from an extremely difficult background....Struggled and worked hard to get where he is. I don't see him as someone who has forgotten that. I usually get disgusted because of his southern/convservative views (and I am from SC) but he can be a maverick at times. Three cheers for my Senator today!! He surprised me again! :)

[autorank]

63. I believe him too. No insider info but he talks like he wants to be

intellectually honest, which is all we need on any of these issues...someone who will think them through and think of the people and country.

[DemoTex]

67. Graham and I have corresponded on Abu Ghraib torture ...

He is a USAFR lawyer. He knows. He hates the memos. Quit the Clinton inquisition, Graham is more like us than Lieberman or Biden will ever, again be. Fuck them, watch him (Graham). He is my Senator (I live in NC most of the time, but vote in SC where my wife and I have a downtown condo in Greenville). My other Senator is beyond hope (Jim DeMint-ed).

[Clark2008]

72. Here's a link

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031781601697&path=!nationworld&s=1037645509161

In one exception to the party divide, five Republicans broke ranks and voted with the Democrats in favor of a resolution declaring, "Congress should reject any Social Security plan that requires deep benefit cuts or a massive increase in debt."

Democrats say that Bush cannot establish private investment accounts, his signature proposal for revamping the retirement program, without cutting benefits or adding to the federal budget deficit.

"They're nervous. They're worried. But their hands are tied as long as the president sticks to privatization," said Sen. Charles E. Schumer of New York, the top Democratic spokesman on the issue in the Senate.

The vote on the resolution, offered by Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., was 50-50, with Republicans Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, Mike DeWine of Ohio, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania joining with the chamber's Democratic minority.

[joanski01]

74. I was watching that vote. There

were actually six Repukes voting with the Dems. I think that when the Repukes saw they were losing, they twisted Senator Brownback's arm and he changed his vote.

[kentuck]

73. Looks to me like we just gave the Repubs some cover.....

No benefits cuts in SS... So now it is going to make it more difficult to tie the destruction of SS to the Party in general, only to Bush... That's not what we need...We need to get rid of those Radicals in Congress...