to PA DUers...the failure of the preoperty tax relief and passage of

[bearfartinthewoods]

the increase on state income tax....

if this isn't straightened out by election time, what is your opinion on it's effect on a dean candidacy?

in my mind, i can't see a worse scenerio. we did get Ed elected, in large part because he promised property tax relief. the effort to repace property tax has been screwed, at least for now so we are looking at an increase in state income tax and a candidate that promises an increase in federal tax, to boot!!.

i'm seeing our chances of dumping spectre go down the tubes on dean's coatails. am i wrong? please tell me i'm wrong.

[joanski01]

1. The Dem Party in PA

needs to inform the voters of PA that it's the Repukes in the Statehouse who are blocking everything. They are making sure that they block the Slot Machine bill so Rendell can't reduce property taxes.

The Dems also need to inform PA voters that it is Santorum who is leading the fight against Medicare and Social Security and it is Specter who votes for those right-wing judges. It is Specter who dropped his opposition to blocking the overtime bill so he could get some money for some military transport thing in Philly.

[bearfartinthewoods]

3. i think the role of the pubbies is pretty well known

it's well supported by many of the religious folk around here because of their anti-gambling stance. my concern is that just as Ed has run afoul of the pubbies in the statehouse, people know/fear that dean will run into an even worse situation in congress. using the state is an indicator....if dean does raise taxes, and it possible that the fiscally responsible pubbies will back the tax increase and other pubbies may allow it as a trap for dem senators and representatives.

BUT....the programs that dean claims will offset the tax increases, like day care funding and tuiton assistance and heathcare reductions will be blocked in congress, just as half of Ed's program for tax restructing have been blocked in our statehouse.

PA voters are seeing this happen real time. why won't they project the same problems onto a dean candidacy?

btw...are you a PA DUer? if so :wave:

[TorchTheWitch]

5. PA DUer here

sending a wave...

:hi:

i'm seeing our chances of dumping spectre go down the tubes on dean's coatails. am i wrong? please tell me i'm wrong.

Personally, I think you're right. I've had the suitcase out ready for packing since the day Ed took office.

[goobergunch]

11. So who did you vote for in the 2002 governor's race? (n/t)

[TorchTheWitch]

13. what kind of absurd question is that?

So who did you vote for in the 2002 governor's race?

Are you actually asking if I voted Republican??? :eyes:

[goobergunch]

14. There were four candidates in the governor's race.

Ed Rendell (D)
Mike Fisher (R)
Ken Krawchuck (L)
Mike Morrill (G)

You say that you are opposed to Rendell, so I am curious as to which of the above candidates you supported.

[bearfartinthewoods]

18. where did TTW say he or she didn't vote for Rendell?

now i'm pretty sure you aren't from PA because if you were you'd know most of us have been holding our breath on this tax revision deal since he started running. it's what got him into office, that and the fact that the pubbie LT GOV didn't want the job.

now the wheels have fallen of the reform effort and until that gets fixed, a lot of us are just damn glad there is no recall in PA. six months ago, nobody hated Ed. that is not the case now and unless and until this tax thing gets straightened out we are in deep doodoo.

[goobergunch]

19. If one hasn't been following all of the budget negotiations carefully,

one isn't from PA?

I probably should be paying a little more attention, but I have a tendency to focus on national politics....:spank:

I honestly haven't been following this very much...one of the problems with the Inky is that it tends to focus a lot more on sports than on Harrisburg, and the Legislature really ought to put their Record (or whatever they call it) online.

--the Goobergunch--
Resident of Tredyffrin Township, Chester County, Pennsylvania

[bearfartinthewoods]

21. given that the thread title was aimed at PA DUers

i just got a little miffed that someone would jump on a poster without having a clear idea of what we are up against.

and as far as your interests being directed at national politics, click on the map, mentioned in my sig. now change PA to pubbie and tell me what happens?

[TorchTheWitch]

20. try not jumping to conclusions

You say that you are opposed to Rendell, so I am curious as to which of the above candidates you supported.

I said absolutely no such thing. But seeing as it seems so very important to you despite the fact that who one votes for is no one else's damn business, I voted for Ed... mostly as a block to keep that snake in the grass, Fisher, out. In hindsight I wish I hadn't as the moment he had his ass in the chair of his new office he signed a law that greatly effects my ability to earn a decent living and greatly increases harrassment in the workplace... a law, I might add, that is about as bible-thumping conservative as it gets.

[leftyandproud]

2. promised a tax cut...failed...and delivered a tax hike?

um yea...sorry bud, looks like you are screwed/. The pubs will mil this for all it's worth.

[max2000]

4. and the last time we lost so many jobs was with HOOVER

[Gman]

6. There are a lot of people that are blindly ignorant to the reality that

the Dems have got to have at least a few Southern states to win. When Carter won, the Carter states looked like the old confederacy. Clinton won several Southern states. Its a political reality because people have left the northern states for lots of good reasons and moved to the south.

What was that article I saw the other day that said that the Dems already start with a (like) 8 electoral vote disadvantage from 2000 because of census figures and the moving of electoral votes from northern states to southern states?

There has to be a southerner on the ticket if the Dems are to win but having someone in the VP slot won't necessarily work as witnessed by Bentson with the last New Englander in the Prez slot. In fact, I'm pretty much convinced that if there is a New Englander in the prez slot we're toast because the South will not vote for a New Englander at all.

Nominate Dean, forget about November and start planning for '08.

[bearfartinthewoods]

7. that krondrakee guy was just asked about a pubbie in '08

his list of likely pubbies:
jeb bush
dr frist
rick santorum

i think i'm gonna crawl back into bed and pull the covers over my head.

[joanski01]

8. Rick Santorum???????????

I'm going to be sick.

And, yes, I am a PA DUer. :hi:

[TeacherCreature]

12. and if you continue to allow republicans to frame the debate you might as

well pull the covers over your head. We don't need a centrist or a republican in a donkey suite like Clark. We need a fighter why talls the truth. I am supportin Carol M_B's candidacy because I think it is the right thing to do. My secound choice is Dean and I might go to work for him before the primary. He speaks the truth and I don't care how many centrists think the truth is a bad idea.

[bearfartinthewoods]

17. you aren't from PA are you?

hint..we have 2 pubbie senators.

btw...why are you dragging clark into this? he's not the only southerner in the race you know.

[TeacherCreature]

9. I think a real populist nominee like Dean is just what we need

I think Pennsylvanians are as tired of no point republican lite "democrats" as the rest of the country. Run someone people can believe in and they will turn out to vote.

[TeacherCreature]

10. and you should stop saying Dean is for increasing taxes

you know as well as I he is simply talking about rolling baxk tx cuts which haven't taken place yet.

So, who are you supporting?

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. well since i don't own clear channel or any TV or Newspapers

i can't command them to frame the arguement that way.

[bearfartinthewoods]

23. can you tell me what causes you to believe what you believe?

you see we have a REPUBLICAN HOUSE and a REPUBLICAN SENATE. and a dem governor who is about to get very unpopular because he got elected on the platform of propert tax relief which failed while the state income tax increased passed.

we have REPUBLICAN ARLEN SPECTRE and REPUBLICAN RICK SANTORUM

i haven't checked lately to see if their are still more dem congress members than pubbie.

republican light dems are jsut about all we can get elected here so i'm really interested in your thinking as to how we can turn the whole damn state around in 10 months.

[dsc]

15. Can you please edit your signature line

Truman was not a southerner.

[bearfartinthewoods]

26. well i thought about it

but considering how he came into office and the existing condidtions , WWII and all, i stick by my premise.

[PAMod]

16. A lot depends on the success of prop. tax reform next year

The headlines, in the midstate at least, are calling property tax reform & slots at the tracks "delayed".

The Republican General Assembly, particularly the state Senate, has effectively stolen a year from Governor Rendell, giving him one less year to enact his vigorous, ambitious program. I believe that is what they set out to do, and they have succeeded.

If property tax reform is enacted in the spring, things will begin to get back on track. If not, then the Democrats had better be ready to scream bloody murder that the Repubs are stonewalling it. Rendell, who is personally popular, is a workaholic, and that is the perception that will save him and the Democrats in PA in 2004.

PA voters are fairly well-informed, but we all know how crucial it is to frame the debate before the other people do it.

Regarding Specter, I don't know if we have a candidate strong enough to bounce him, regardless of what happens in Harrisburg. He has ingratiated himself into our communities in ways that out-of-staters might not understand.

He has avoided becoming a polarizing figure, almost devoid of controversy.

It has been very frustrating to watch over the years.

[Cheswick2.0]

22. I worked my ass off for Rendell

He was not the established democrat party candidate. He ran against their candidate Casey. So I am sure he would be the last person to argue for the gutless "we must nominate repug lite" argument.
In fact on these very boards several Pa Duers got hysterical and said nominating Rendell was too Risky and I should be working for Casey blah blah blah, Rendell can't get elected blah blah blah.

[bearfartinthewoods]

24. okay...i'll hold onto you guys for strength.

and pray the mess gets cleaned up in the spring.