Could we call a moratorium on 2008 polls?

[Leilani]

I realize DUers are independent people & don't like being told what to do, however I'm just making a suggestion.

This constant flurry of polls is devisive, & totally uncalled for. Most of these polls are started, not by supporters of candidates, but by people wanting some controversy. Insults fly, supporters get mad, & pretty soon we have a flame fest.

I admit I've been guilty of participating in these threads, however i've never started a poll, & I don't intend to. It's 2005, & it's way way too soon to worry about 2008. Who knows what will happen by then?

Why not have some dicussions about issues? What are the most serious issues facing us? Why not put energy into organizing campaigns to contact the media or politicians?

DU is a very small world. What we decide isn't necessarily what the greater world outside will decide. But we can make a difference, if we apply ourselves to constructive projects.

I know i've been angry about this nonsense, & I've even stayed away from DU at times because it's so nasty. Could we please end the wars?

Any opinions?

[Crunchy Frog]

1. I couldn't agree more.

I certainly never have and never would start one of those polls.

I kind of wonder if the motivation behind them isn't similar to that of people who fight pit bulls or something like that. I wonder if they do it just for the entertainment value of generating a big flame war.

[Leilani]

2. That's what I think.

They love the flame wars...it gets everybody worked up & angry.

They seem to have a lot of time on their hands.

[Clark2008]

3. I would hope so.

I think we should stick to providing news sources and links for the candidates we favor and get out of the poll business until at least later on this year - when we actually have some candidates for the 2006 elections.

[NYCGirl]

4. Great idea, Leilani. I'm all for it. NT

[Leilani]

5. Of course you all realize this thread will sink

rather quickly?

It's just not any fun to agree.

[Clark2008]

6. Well, that won't prevent a couple of folks from driving by

and cut-and-paste post simply because the name "Wes Clark" or "Clark" is mentioned in the thread (because of our user names and sig quotes).
So... Leilani... there's hope for your thread, yet! :rofl:

Just kiddin', hon. :)

[Crunchy Frog]

7. Either that, or else it will get crashed by the flame warriors

who will hijack it by spamming their usual flamebait. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Not if people keep kicking it

[beyurslf]

8. Agreed. Can we get through 2006 before we start planning 2008?

[Totally Committed]

14. I couldn't agree more,

even though I feel that 2006 is on autopilot even as I write this.

What we could be using this forum for is education about our chosen candidates. What we feel each Democrat should know about who we support, and why, so that we can all know about their backgrounds, their strengths, their issues. If we wait for the "debates", all we'll get is 60-second soundbites that disserve not only them, but us all. We could be using the time to organize for real voting reforms that will not disenfranchise any of us.

The energy that is stirred up by these polls is used to attack other candidates. It has a negative result that only divides us. Democrats need to find a way to unite behind their candidate, not be so turned off that they can't even be bothered to get to a polling booth.

These polls are not a good thing, and I, for one think that if they are to exist at all, should be done sparingly, and far closer to the election. And they should be done without any comments allowed. That way, there is no chance of grandstanding, attack, or whining.

Just my opinion.

TC

[Leilani]

9. As far as possible candidates,

I wish we could limit the posts to news of candidate's activities.

We can keep everyone informed of meetings, appearances, editorials, political activities, etc.

Cheerleading threads are very annoying.

[Adelante]

10. My opinion is YES!!

But then we'd be denying Clark-haters an easy forum for their venom. Then we'd be accused of denying choice. Then we would be accused of godknowswhat.

[tishaLA]

11. No. I like Clark supporters being scapegoatged

:grr:

[Leilani]

19. LOL!

Isn't that really the issue?

[x_y_no]

12. Amen!

Every one of them seems to turm into the same flamefest.

[saltpoint]

13. Karl Rove and his ilk are already thinking about and --

-- planning for 2012 and 2016, is my guess.

A bit of corresponding speculation and planning on our side would be healthy, I think.

Your point on the nastiness is well-taken, but the poll wording would help there. A poll that asks, "Do you think Dennis Kucinich is too radical for normal voters" is incendiary and almost slanderous & guaranteed to offend.

But a poll that asks, "Who among possible Democratic nominees has the best chance of breaking the GOP hold on red states' electoral votes?" would be more useful.

I'd maybe call for more practical goals in the speculating and more long-term focus and organization on the planning. That's how the GOP has beaten us in key races and I think we can match 'em or do better.

____
edit: typos galore

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. Oh I completely agree with this, however...

The discussion that goes with these polls rarely has anything to do with planning and/or preparation. Mostly is is a sporting event with people coming out as fans for their faves. Then we end up with soccer match type brawls.

That's why the poll aspect is usually unproductive, it boils everything down to a horse race with favorites and under dogs. I have no problem with straight up threads that talk about the relative strengths of a specific Democrat, up to and including the advantages that Democrat may have as a 2008 candidate. Unlike a few on this board, I feel we can talk and chew gum at the same time. Thinking about 2008 is not the antithesis of working for 2006, or 2005 for that matter. There are 2005 races that I am already involved in.

[Crunchy Frog]

17. In theory you're right

but if you actually look at the polls that are like your description, I think you will see that most of them end up degenerating into flamefests.

[kevsand]

15. I think everyone pretty much agrees on this

except for the people who actually start the polls in question. Maybe if we all agreed not to participate in them for a month or so, they'd get the idea. Either that, or we'd all die of apoplexy...

[TreasonousBastard]

18. We could just...

ignore the polls, as most DUers seem to do. No need to fight if you don't want to. No need to even look.

Me, I can't conceive of what 2008 will look like. Too many things can and will happen before then. As usual, we'll get a crop of new faces snooping around after the 2006 election-- more names to trash and bash that will bring back the glory days of the flamefests of last year.

Arguing about 2008 may be fun for some, but it's just so low rent and saps energy from the real job-- next year and taking back Congress.

Does everyone really understand just how important next year is? We can roll back much of the Shrub damage and maybe even get his sorry ass impeached.

Eyes on the prize, people.

[Leilani]

20. Good idea!

I haven't participated recently.

From now on I'm boycotting them.

[quinnox]

21. Or they could leave Clark out of polls

I saw one Duer do this, something like "It's a given Clark would win this poll if included, so who would you choose from these candidates?"

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. Yes, sure, but it makes the whole concept even sillier in my opinion

But whatever. At least that way people would stop blaming Clark supporters for all the polls. I think.

[Leilani]

24. I think they're pretty useless with or without Clark

but hey, as I said, it's just a suggestion. People are free to do whatever.

For me, I've decided to boycott all polls.

[Leilani]

25. Kick!

[CarolNYC]

26. I certainly wouldn't miss them. n/t

[blm]

27. If we think about 2006 FIRST, we can think about IMPEACHMENT!

As long as Dean is working on the infrastructure now, it is our jobs to work on 2006 with him.

A 2008 victory will come from the work we accomplish in 2006.

[Leilani]

28. There is a lot of unhappiness out there among the average Joes.

If only that growing anger can be turned against the Congress in 2006.

I'm not real optimistic about the House because of gerrymandered districts. It's almost impossible to unseat an incumbent.

[Nikki Stone 1]

29. Recommended

A discussion of issues is better than a discussion of individuals. Some issues:

1. How "centrist" should the party go? Or should Dems be openly progressive and trying to gain support for progressive ideals?

2. Is any Democrat better than a Republican? If I have a choice between Christie Todd Whitman (a pro-choice Republican who was too "moderate" for GW Bush's EPA) or Bill Casey (an anti-choice Democrat), convince me that I am better off voting for Casey.

3. Are the New Democrats really helping the party? (Other than Clinton's victory, which may have been due to Ross Perot's presence in the election as well as Clinton's own personal appeal.)

4. What areas of the Democratic platform are negotiable, if any?

5. How far should Dems go in acknowledging religion, especially fundamentalist "Christianity"?

6. Should a Democratic president continue the current war in the ME (now that it is already in progress) or should s/he be working to pull troops out and repairing our diplomatic relationships with the rest of the world?

7. How soon will Peak Oil be upon us and what should a president do to deal with that?

[Pilgrim4Progress]

40. Great questions!

They'd all make terrific threads!

[Leilani]

48. Yes, all good questions

& better than polls.

[Cuban_Liberal]

30. Reccomended.

And a hearty 'Amen!', from me!

:thumbsup:

[harris8]

31. kick - n/t

[bobthedrummer]

32. I won't be starting one in the forseeable future.

We should be concentrating on what we can do next year. Beating Republicans, not ourselves.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. Thank you Bob.

For once, I agree with you.

[northamericancitizen]

33. Recommended nt

[paulk]

34. yes.

they're a waste of bandwidth.

and divisive.

[NYCGirl]

35. I think there's been more 2008 polls since you posted this thread. NT

[Leilani]

49. It figures.

Some people just can't get beyond the horse race, rather than dealing with what will win the horserace.

[LdyGuique]

36. Absolutely!!!

[Catchawave]

37. I like the polls

Lets me know where our heads are at on that day/hour :)

I tried something different recently by posting a poll of candidates represented by DU Groups. Just trying to build a base for these guys here at home first. I didn't mention 2008, just who you would support if the primaries were held today. By raising the bar and limiting it to candidates with a DU support base, was hoping we'd have more of these Groups organized, especially for Hillary, Barbara and Feingold.

I vote for Edwards in EVERY poll he's included on, because he still has my heart and soul :) Maybe it will change by 2008, maybe it won't?

My polls will be titled the DU Primary and will only include names supported in the Groups, and nothing to do with 2008!

Hope that's ok :grouphug:

[Adelante]

38. We're just venting

You certainly have a right to post polls. Anyone does.

[CJCRANE]

39. I think it's a cunning plan..

to give everyone "Clark fatigue".

[Leilani]

50. My OP was just a rant on my part, & just a suggestion.

You're certainly free to post anything you want.

[OneTwentyoNine]

42. Agreed....Its so early its ridiculous

Whats the point of these polls at this point in time anyway?? To see how many replies you can get and feel important? What a joke....

[WI_DEM]

43. well one thing that could be done is have DU do an official poll

on the subject--say a six month moretorium on 2008 polls and see which side wins. If the anti-poll side wins then we have six months without a '08 candidate poll if the other side wins...

[Leilani]

51. My OP was a suggestion

I don't think it's fair to try & impose my feelings on any DUers.

[CitySky]

44. there's work to do for 2006

especially here in Texas.

So I just ignore the threads with 2008 in the title.

Except for this one, of course. :hi:

[JHBowden]

45. Why? Don't you want to hear how great Wes Clark is?

:shrug:

[Leilani]

52. I don't need anonymous posters on a message board

to tell me what to think.

I prefer an exchange of ideas, & this place isn't doing real well with that.

[BlueIris]

46. Even I'm sick of those things. I promise never to start one.

I won't need to. Got my candidate all picked out and I'm already sending money. I also volunteer not to contribute to anymore polls.

[Turn CO Blue]

47. John Stewart for President 2008! Okay, no polls. Who cares, tho?

[paineinthearse]

53. If the Dems do not win the House or the Senate in 2006

There will be no election in 2008.

Stop the 2008 polls already and focus on 2006.

[wyldwolf]

54. Just answer this ONE question, please!

If you could vote in any of these DU '08 Primary polls, which one would you vote in?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1720956&mesg_id=1720956
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1720439&mesg_id=1720439
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1715768&mesg_id=1715768
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1724072&mesg_id=1724072
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1722831&mesg_id=1722831
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1724394

...and wouldn't it be annoying to bump them all to the front page?
(OK, I realize that was TWO questions...)

[Leilani]

59. LOL! you're trying to trick me...

but I ain't playin!

[Blue Moon]

55. I'll drop it...

As long as we all agree that WES CLARK IS DA MAN FOR 2008!!!!!

[Tom Rinaldo]

56. "Boy, you're gonna carry that weight, carry that weight a long time"

The Beatles, off of Abbey Road.

[sandnsea]

57. Thank you Leilani

There is so much important work to do, this candidate stuff is just silly making.

[Leilani]

60. Peace, Sandnsea...

I've been snarky lately, & I regret it.

[Crunchy Frog]

58. Kick.

:kick: