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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:31 PM
Original message
Today on This Week, I heard something I hadn't considered before-
one of the women in the 'undecided' focus-group sitting with judas snoffleophegus said that she wuldn't consider voting for Clark, because if it weren't for the war he wouldn't even be in the race in the first place.
and she's right.
of course the answer to that is- "True maybe...but there is a war- that's the reality of the situation. if there hadn't of been a WW2, Ike wouldn't have been a candidate or a president either."

That being said, and I have been a Clark guy for a while- since before he announced, and I think that he definitely looks and sounds the part, I'm liking the idea of a Kerry/Edwards ticket more and more...although- something like Kerry/Clark, with Edwards as Attorney general could make for a great administration. and how about Bill Clinton as Secretary of State?
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think that it is a good idea for Clinton
or any former president to be in a new president's cabinet. The reason is that it must be clear who is in charge.

On the other hand, Clinton is so talented that he should be in public office. I wonder how it would play for him to be ambassador to the UN?

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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Clinton is more likely to be Sec. General of UN.
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leyton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Nahhh...
I don't believe the UN elects Secretaries-General from countries that have permanent seats on the Security Council. It would give them too much power.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Clark would be a good Sec. of Defense
Edwards makes a better running mate.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is exactly the time in history
When we need Clark the most. We need steady hand guiding the War on Terror. Someone who won't get bamboozled by the military or other hawks. Besides he has a very progressive platform that any Democrat should like. Also he can beat Bush, this is all moot unless we win against an incumbent that will have strong support.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. I've been trying to make this point, and people rarely try to respond to
it.

Clarks' existence as a candidate depends on something that Bush created. He's a REACTION to something Republicans control.

If this landscape can't be changed, so be it.

But you have to ask yourself, what if the Republicans change this landscape. They created it. They can take it down just enough to make Clark look like something that doesn't really make sense.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Nonsense AP. Apparently You Haven't Heard Anything Clark Has Said
My response to this in is my post below.

Just out of curiosity. how is the assertion "This is Two Nations" not a REACTION to what the GOP has done?
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. But we all
have reacted to what the administration has done.We want them out because there are disastrous people in it. All the candidates have reacted to Shrub's selling his country out. I am a Dean person, but would take Clark as my president in a heartbeat if he wins the nomination. Same for Kerry and Edwards. We must have change.
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Frederic Bastiat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Problem with Kerry, Lieberman and Edwards
Is they sat there and watched as the Bushies whipped up paranoia to levels not seen in America for decades.

Clark has had enough, Dean has had enough, heck i've had enough, its about time we as a people stopped living in fear!
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adamrsilva Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is what they will hit Clark with
"He's only in it because he wants to be the commander in a time of war! This is pure career oppurtunism at best!"
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Clark Is In The Race Because He Has The Leadership Skills
to turn this country around.

Because his appeal goes beyond the Democratic Party

Because his appeal goes beyond the North East

Because he can forever dismantle the nonsense that Democrats are weak on Military

Because he has faced down the Neo-Cons and exposed the PNAC without backpeddling
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Case is
Being the right man for the country means nothing if it were not the RIGHT time in history. That lady, and I saw her, had some simple ideas that sounded solid but were loose sound bites she picked up somewhere.
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BlueStateGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. That made me think that Clark needs something to go to, in case
Osama Bin Laden is captured before the election. He has been hammering Bush for not paying attention to Al Qeadea and Bin Laden.

If he's captured, then what? " I got him. And according to General Clark I got him without really paying him much attention."

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shivaji Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Clark is in this race for only ONE reason...
$$$

He voted republican when he figured it would help further his career..
He praised Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld to gain favor in the current admin...
He lobbyed for the military when it earned him huge $$$'s
He has now taken the avatar of a far left liberal since in his mind that is the only way he can win the nomination...is this the same person who once voted for Raygun???

No way I trust this man.

Go Dean, Kerry, Edwards.......much much much more reliable democrats!
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. I voted for Reagan and Bush I once.
Edited on Sun Jan-25-04 01:19 PM by StClone
- So what!?

- he praised the Administration? Reread the story he praised them for not abandoning the troops overall once committed to Iraq and especially during a sand storm. He wrote many articles.

- He lobbied after retirement because he needed work. Does he still lobby?

- He voted for Clinton and Gore. That's a long time to fake it.

- Do you trust other Publicans turned Democratic: Huffington, Kevin Phillips, David Brock? I do.





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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Clark needs to make his bones as a Democrat before he gets the top job.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm not prepared to
accept another 4 years of George Bush. Clark is a very trustworthy man, read his positions, listen to him, and get over the fact he picked a different 1st career than politics.
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Meritaten1 Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. Clark has strong economic credentials too
While his background on military/national security issues may be a strong selling point, it would be interesting to know whether the members of the This Week focus group of New Hampshire voters were familiar with his economics/business expertise. He mentioned his economic background during an interview with Meet the Press today:

-He has a Master's Degree from Oxford University;

-He taught economics and politics at West Point;

-He was a White House Fellow assigned to the Office of Management and Budget;

-He has practical, first hand experience as an investment banker/consultant;

-His Families First Tax Reform Plan would give a big tax break to working families (families of four making less than $50,000 a year don't pay ANY federal income tax and families with children making less than $100,000 a year get a tax cut).

The mainstream media seems to miss a lot of good opportunities to find out more about his domestic and economic policies.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's more than the war
it's about preservation of our democracy and principles. Clark gets it, some other dems do not but its the most important part to get.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. Clark is much more radical than just being good on National Defense
I want him as President because he is not politics as usual, and he can transform the political landscape and unravel the emerging Republican majority, which will have profound social implications for a generation or more. And I don't think any of our more typical Liberal politicians can pull that off, though some might still beat Bush.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. When Opportunity Knocks, Open the Door
I was asked by another poster to post this statement to this thread, and I am honoring that request:

Wesley Clark said it best when he commented that Democrats aren't used to having Generals in our Party. Just as true it seems, Generals aren't used to being Democrats. Everyone knows by now that Clark was rather late arriving at our Party. Most V.I.P.'s show up earlier, except, sometimes, for the Guest of Honor. What has Wesley Clark ever done to earn that type of distinction?

It is a good and fair question. Too often though it's posed as a Trick Question: "What has Clark done for the Democratic Party to earn the distinction of being our Presidential nominee?" What's the trick? It's simple really. All political parties exist (or so it is claimed) to advance the greater interests of the American People, not the other way around. The election of November 2004 isn't about selecting the next Chairperson for the National Democratic Party, it is about choosing the next President of the United States, the one who will be sworn to uphold all of our interests.

Talk all you want about third party movements and Independent candidacy's; for a century or more, the successful path to the Presidency has run directly through one of two dominant parties. Democrats tend to criticize some of our leftist friends for diluting our forces, either by running as, or supporting, a Green Party Presidential candidate. Yet some now imply that Clark, a man who chose a non partisan career of service and Independent affiliations, should perhaps be running as an Independent candidate, rather than compete with longer tenured Democrats seeking our nomination, or simply not run at all. That line of thinking fails to directly address the fundamental questions. Who should Democrats be supporting to become our next President, and why? Who is best suited to serve and protect the American public? Who can most likely succeed in the quest to unseat Bush the Pretender? Not succeeding at the latter is almost too depressing to contemplate, but contemplate it we should.

Obviously Democrats hold core beliefs on the values our society must embrace, and the direction our nation should take. Without those a political party is just an expedient shell. Someone seeking our Party's support must uphold those beliefs, so what about General Clark? I think anyone capable of reading or listening knows by now that he does, in spades. Personally I agree with Michael Moore, Clark is surprisingly progressive on almost all issues. Democrats never agree on everything, but if Clark is who he says he is, the overwhelming majority of Democrats, not to mention Independents and moderate Republicans, will celebrate a Clark victory over Bush.

That's the rub for many, isn't it? Should we believe what Clark says and writes now, just what is really behind his good words? There are certainly those who reject Clark for some deeply held principles, or deeply rooted suspicions, and your decision for now is simple; back another candidate. But I'm addressing the rest of us here. Clark has proven his courage and literal selflessness on a field of real battle. That can't be faked. He stood up to the military establishment in the Pentagon, and fought hard and successfully in favor of humanitarian military missions, at the ultimate expense of his own career. That is public record. Clark comes from humble roots and is a self made man who lived for decades on middle income wages in the U.S. Army though fortunes were frequently offered him as an incentive to leave. I know enough people who I trust, who know and trust Clark's abilities, his motivation, and his sincerity, for me to trust Clark also. I've met him. I believe him.

But it's too much of a gamble to select Clark some say, why make it? Gambling is a better metaphor than it might initially appear. Why would anyone not bet on a relative sure thing over something, or someone, less proven? Easy, it's for the greater pay off when you ultimately win. In Clark's case, for me, the question isn't whether is Clark more or less likely to beat Bush. I think the public at large has a much easier time respecting and accepting Clark than do core Democratic voters being asked to chose between a number of attractive choices. Many of Clark's perceived weaknesses in the Primaries turn to advantages in the General Election. One quick example; men embrace Clark more quickly than most women, maybe it's that military thing. Running against Bush rather than another Democrat, Clark will do fine with women, a traditional Democratic area of strength, AND Clark will deeply encroach on Bush's hold over most white males. The arguments have all been frequently made, so I will simply state here that I believe Clark is the man best able to defeat Bush in the Fall.

For me Clark's huge upside is AFTER he gets in office. I think he will make a truly great President. I think Clark possesses greater personal skills than any President since FDR. Equally impressive, Clark is a great communicater. He knows how to speak to Democrats, that's obvious from his campaign, but he resonates with almost all Americans. Here is a man with George McGovern and Michael Moore endorsements who most Americans don't view as "one of those liberals". Clark is a Trojan Horse alright, our Trojan Horse. He can carry our message past the media and propagandist walls designed and built to keep Progressive speech out. Clark steals Republican Thunder to deliver Democratic Lightning. He will transform the political landscape in a way none of our other candidates could. He will restore the Democratic Party to majority status. And what is the downside to this gamble? We may end up with another Clinton. That is a risk I am prepared to take.


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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. Something interesting Clark has said
that nobody seems to have paid any attention to is, apart from the war or terrorism, although I think those are valid reasons. He watched the 2000 election results and was in horror at what he saw. The loss of civil liberties and civil rights and economic opportunity in American society drives him as much as anything.

However, no matter what the Repubs do, even magically bring peace to the Middle East and produce a shining democracy in Iraq before the election, there is nothing they can do about terrorism that won't take years, especially since they diverted to Iraq from Afghanistan, wasting time, lives and resources. What Clark brings to the WH is a commander in chief with military, diplomatic and executive experience - and I believe he is the only one with combination of skills. I think what's happening is people want to vote on domestic policy experience, but when it comes down to actually voting, national security is still the elemental issue at this point in our history and will be in November.

On your other point, Clark is not a worthwhile VP for anybody else. It only works with him in the chief executive seat. The VP has to have legislative weight and bring in electoral votes. A high level cabinet post is something that makes more sense should he not be president, but not VP.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. Kerry? Edwards? Clinton? The DLC speaks.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
24. I Don't Think That's an Issue for Clark
If he's the man of the moment, the cause doesn't matter.

Clark's platform and ability to govern are first. Electability is close second.

I think Clark would make a fine president. As one poster suggested, he may have the ability to change the landscape of party identity. If that's true, that would be powerful reason to support him.

What I question about Clark is his ability to survive a tough negative campaign. He doesn't seem to have the right quality. I think he'll end up getting defined by the GOP. I could be wrong -- it's a matter of judgment.

And while I think Clark's domestic agenda is fine, he doesn't have the experience on domestic issues OR as an executive in government. That can also be overcome, but it's an issue.
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