It's the cheap food, stupid.

[Jed Dilligan]

Do you ever wonder why Americans don't simply rise up? We even (used to?) have a bloodless way of overthrowing our government, established at the very founding of our nation, called democratic elections. People in other countries, Iraq being the signal example right now, are willing to die in the hope of transforming their nations. All we have to do is walk a few blocks and vote, one day every couple of years. And those of us who really could make the difference, don't.

This has tempted many on DU and elsewhere to ask, what the hell is wrong with us? I believe it was Sam Kinison who described depression as being like having the pill that will save your life on the nightstand, and not having the energy to reach from the bed to get it. The American voter--especially those youngest and poorest and most vulnerable among us who disproportionately choose not to vote--seems to be suffering from something similar.

I have heard any number of explanations of this, all of which make us look pretty bad. Too much television, video games, drugs, selfishness, ignorance. Or we've been cowed into submission by the expansion of police powers and reduction of rights that started with Nixon. Or we've lost hope because of all the news of government corruption in the past thirty years. I won't deny that all these things have their effects. What I don't believe is the (right-wing) idea that we have a "national character," in which some flaw can be located that explains everything. I think we can pin it down to something specific that has happened in the last half-century: the cheapening of our food supply at the hands of agribusiness, government, and the food industry.

Unlike in any other country in the whole world, in the whole history of the world, you can get a full day's supply of calories--tasty calories!--for less than an hour's work at minimum wage. The food is not nourishing and ultimately disables the consumer, which is all the better if our cause is social control. The fats and high fructose corn syrup in nearly every component of the meal, after causing a rush of undirectable hyperactivity, work to make the eater feel dull and torpid. Kids who live on this diet are almost ineducable, which is wonderful, because it makes it look like poor people are poor because they are stupid. But above all, it gives the sensation of a full belly--the lack of which has been the number-one cause of social unrest everywhere and at all times.

Do you agree? And if so, what, if anything, should be done about it?

[MichiganVote]

1. Poor in spirit

[niyad]

2. I think you are right to a degree on this--I have been saying for some

time that I believe the atkins diet is partly responsible. think about it--we hear about mad cow disease, the beef industry takes a hit (and my friends in cattle ranching told me that they were destroying herds long before the story of that one cow came out) so, suddenly, the atkins diet is all the rage--who profits? the beef industry. AND--without the glycol found in carbohydrates, the brain has lost its major source of fuel. people on atkins, in my observations, tend to lose brain function. so, 30 million people on atkins when the elections roll around. . . .

[Jed Dilligan]

3. Is it really that many?

I'm talking more about the poor people who eat fast food and don't vote--the ones that would win every election for progressives if they'd just go pull that lever.

[niyad]

20. that was the latest figure I read. I understood what you were saying,

but since we are talking food. . . .

I am allergic to salt, and do not eat prepared, convenience or fast foods. chemical preservatives make me ill, too, as does non-dairy. so, gee, I eat real, actual food, which I prepare, sans salt, for far less than one pays for the convenience crap.

[Clark2008]

37. Perhaps, but my fiance and I both use Atkins to lose small

amounts of weight and for maintenance, at times.

The goal of Atkins is to starve the body of carbs long enough for the body to use protein as fuel, thus increasing the metabolism. It doesn't say to stay COMPLETELY away from the carbs after the first two weeks.

Besides, my fiance and I are smart - hell, we're Democrats! ;)

[AntiCoup2K4]

84. That's a crazy leap of logic.

I was on Atkins for a while, and it certainly did not cause me to "lose brain function" and definitely did not turn me into a Busheep. Actually, quite the opposite it helped me pull out of a period of very deep depression.

Now that being said, I realize that a no-carbohydrate diet, or ridiculously low carb diet can't be sustained long term. Which is why the modified "South Beach Diet" approach has now eclipsed the original Atkins diet.

The one negative effect that Atkins DID have on me though, was to make my body even more sensitive to these man made ultra refined carbs such as High Fructose Corn Syrup, bleached flour, etc, and the fact that most corn used in processed foods is the Monsanto genetically modified variety. The results of which were a string of allergic reactions which caused me a variety of problems literally from head to toe.

Although I was a habitual Coca Cola drinker for literally decades, and have been indulging once again over the holidays, I know that the HFC is literally poison and I can't drink the stuff anymore. I've switched to sprouted grain bread only (no flour) which takes some getting used to, but it beats the allergies. There's still some natural carbs there, of course, but at least the body has to break them down a little. And if I really need a bottle of Coke, I know a store that sells the Mexican version, made with cane sugar. Hell, if I lived in Arizona, I'd probably be bringing that shit back across the border all the time.

[Kiouni]

4. If they keep

the middle class working their asses off without while expanding taxes and giving it back the rich then yeah i might not notice it until i try to retire and i get is a bush signed sol coffe mug. But by then i'll be shaky and trying to shoot the neighbors dog while driving 20 mph into a farmers market.

[Jed Dilligan]

6. Welcome to DU Kiouni

You seem to have the right spirit for this place!

[Kiouni]

7. yeah

i just ate a boston market pot pie that has 78 grams of fat i just see how they got that much into so little. so i would have to say i agree with you.

[Jed Dilligan]

8. Strangely enough

I'm going to have an all-organic pot pie for dinner, and some salad. Probably a lot of fat, too, but I'm borderline underweight, and it's the type of fat that ultimately matters.

It's too bad it doesn't matter how hard you work at most jobs. If there was an economic incentive to be sharper and faster, more people would switch to organics.

[Kiouni]

18. we just got a whole foods market here

and i love the produce because it tastes better and around the same price but why is their such a differnece in meat prices from say kroger and an organic store?

[Jed Dilligan]

19. Check out "Fast Food Nation," book by Eric Schlosser

You will be lining up to pay double and triple for free-range meat...

[greiner3]

50. Ever read The Jungle;

Upton Sinclair. That book single-handedly brought about the FDA. Don't read it on a full stomach!

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Short answer: one buys from a factory, the other buys from a farm

or ranch. Longer answer: the number of producers of low impact or organically raised produce has increased exponentially and the volume allows for pricing more in line with the stuff at Kroger's or Safeway.

When the demand and production for Whole Foods-standard meat increases, the price may come down too. There's already been a significant reduction in the poultry department. It still costs more but not by as great a difference.

[AntiCoup2K4]

85. self delete

dupe post server hiccup or whatever.

[AntiCoup2K4]

86. I'll bet the sodium content was even worse

Pot pie? I'll guess about 1400 grams of sodium per serving.

Even if you manage to find processed food that is either low fat, low carb, or both it's likely high sodium.

Getting out of the processed food habit is my biggest problem. I can cook, but since I live alone, I'd rather not go to all the trouble of all the cooking, preparation, etc. just for myself. It's ironic that I have to watch my blood pressure now, when I never put salt on anything when I was a kid. Not even popcorn, for God's sake.

[Maraya1969]

5. Is that you Bill? Forget it and I agree 100%. "Let your food be

your medicine and your medicine be your food"

I have no ideas right now but I am going to bed and I'll stick that question up in the grey matter. That is a good thing to do with conundrums you know, put them in your head and ask or assert or whatever that the answer will come when you awake.


Nite Nite

[EC]

9. Yep, since when should we be happy to eat food by Monsanto?

GM foods and a monopolizing of big business...both seemed to happen at the same time....Gee, right around 99?

I notice whenever ** has a menu published, it's Grass-feed, Free-range meat...I wonder where their veggies come from? I'll bet it's not an agra-farm...

[wickerwoman]

10. I think you're spot on.

As a person who lived on cheap carbs and NO vegetables for twenty-five years, I can tell you the effects first hand. Exhaustion, nervous irritability, a sense of pervasive hopelessness and negativity, inability to concentrate or even focus on what I'm doing, poor memory. And it's not just me- everyone in my extended family suffers the same symptoms.

I started eating fruits and veggies and cutting out the sugar about four years ago and the effects have been absolutely astonishing.

What can we do about it?

1.) Fix the primary schedule so that all states vote at the same time (or vote in blocks- 10 states from different regions- at a time). Fuck Iowa corn farmers pressuring politicians to subsidize them and food manufacturers to dump their waste products into everything. We wouldn't have high fructose corn syrup in *everything*- dog food, yogurt!, bread, etc.- if we weren't paying companies to take it off the corn farmers hands.

2.) Subsidize vegetables to the same (or greater) extent that we subsidize sugar, wheat and corn. Why do poor people in America eat nothing but cheap carbs? Because that's all they can afford when broccoli costs $4 a bunch. What do poor people in China eat? Cabbage, onions, tomatoes, bananas (and on and on). Vegetables are almost the cheapest things you can buy.

3.) Offer tax incentives for small neighborhood grocery stores- especially organic and whole food stores. Many, many poor people in America don't have cars and can't get to the grocery store. In my last house, I had to either walk 40 minutes each way or take the bus for an hour every time I wanted to go shopping. Who's going to do that when there's a pizza place on the corner and they can get some snacks from the gas station?

4.) Inspect the hell out of inner city grocery stores. Who's going to buy fruit and vegetables crawling with worms, caterpillars and spiders (all of which I found in broccoli and bananas at my local store in NJ)? In the same store I once bought a jar of peanut butter- the lid was covered in dust and beautifully preserved rat tracks. Who's going to put up with that shit when they can get an apparently clean burger from McDonalds for 99 cents?

5.) Get soda and fast food the hell out of schools and institute mandatory daily P.E.

That's just for starters...

[Jed Dilligan]

11. Yes on all four counts

I would add a federal law mandating that all school food be organic. Grades have skyrocketed in districts where this has been implemented.

Also, someone should start a fast food chain that makes all the stuff people like but with local sustainably grown ingredients. This alone could provoke a renaissance of small farming.

[petgoat]

17. While we're talking subsidies, they should subsidize non-alcoholic beer

so a six-pack costs $1.00. Guys who go through several beers a night
would have no excuse not to subsitute a NA for at least half of them.

[Clark2008]

40. A thought - a bit off-topic, but not really:

2.) Subsidize vegetables to the same (or greater) extent that we subsidize sugar, wheat and corn. Why do poor people in America eat nothing but cheap carbs? Because that's all they can afford when broccoli costs $4 a bunch. What do poor people in China eat? Cabbage, onions, tomatoes, bananas (and on and on). Vegetables are almost the cheapest things you can buy.

And this is why poorer people are generally fatter - it's not, as the Republicans claim, that they're getting a lot of money to buy food from welfare programs - it's that they're not getting enough and have to curb the hunger with a bunch of cheap, starchy foods.

Although, I find that buying lots of fresh and frozen veggies actually reduces my grocery bill.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. People don't necessarily know how to cook with veggies, though

Back in the 1970s, the New Haven Food Co-op, which had as part of its mission improving the diets of poor people, held classes in how to cook for less. They had found that lots of young people had grown up on fast food and had no idea how make a meal from scratch. It was as if the transmission of cooking skills from parent to chlid had been interrupted somehow.

[Hello_Kitty]

64. Nor do a lot of them have the facilities to cook

Many, many of our nations poor live in small apartments or hotels with limited or no cooking implements. Add to that pots, utensils, and dishes costing a lot of money. A cheap teflon pan runs $20. Not to mention that most big grocery stores are in the suburbs and if you don't have reliable transportation you don't have the opportunity to take advantage of low prices on produce and healthy stuff. It ends up being more feasible to just get fast food or crappy convenience store snacks.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. When I lived in New Haven, Connecticut, there was a clear difference

between the quality available in inner city stores and suburban stores of the same chains. I didn't have a car for my first few years there, and I got used to the dingy atmosphere and poor-quality produce and meat in the stores near downtown, but the first time I went into the suburbs, I was amazed at the difference.

(Eventually, I joined the New Haven Food Co-op.)

[Hello_Kitty]

65. Yes!

I suffered from the same maladies you describe. It's amazing how a few simple dietary changes can improve your life and health. That and regular aerobic and weight bearing exercise. I sleep better and am so much more alert when I eat right and move my fanny.

[applegrove]

12. Hey - I just heard that your beer tastes bad cause it is made with corn

in part. Not all Hops like Canadian beer.

A Canadian.

[Jed Dilligan]

14. "Buttwiper" has corn and rice.

I doubt your beer is ALL hops--must be some grain involved? Barley? Pure hop liquor would be pretty unpalatable.

[applegrove]

16. Okay - I read "Corn" in US beer and couldn't take in any more information.

That stopped me cold. You poor souls!

[ieoeja]

55. I LOVE corn based beer.

Don't like wheat. Iffy on rice (though a definite "no" to Bud).

[depakid]

29. Whose beer you callin' bad

Try one of our seasonal ales.

An Oregonian.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

34. Yumm. Lucky Lab Organic Golden!

Heya Kid, how ya been?

[applegrove]

56. Yes - the big corporations watered down their beer so bad that

there is huge micro-brewery industry popping up everywhere. Try Sleaman's Cream Ale sometime. Yummy! Recipe from the mid 1800s.

[toddaa]

95. Canadian Beer is made with essentially the same ingredients

In fact, most mass produced beer is made by one of three corporations, Budweiser, SA, or Interbrew and the recipes are, for the most part, interchangeble. That's why the nationalistic pissing match over who has better beer is ridiculous. It all comes out of the same watered down vat of crappy adjuncts and Chinese grown hop pellets.

I swear, once beer aficionados figure out that the bedrock of civilization (that'd be beer) is being ruined by corporate bottom liners, that's when the real revolution will begin.

[burrowowl]

13. In the 80's

(I don't know if it has changed) and not counting the calories to transport food, mechanically grown food used 11 calories to produce 1 calorie of food. Manually grown food took 1 calorie to produce 11.
Think about it!

[Jed Dilligan]

15. And guess who the biggest landowners are in the central valley of CA...

our richest agri"cultural" region?

If you guessed oil companies, you guessed right!

[lostnfound]

23. Very interesting, if true. nt

[NoFederales]

98. Are your calories standardized? One kilocalorie (little c) of heat energy

compares to one Calorie (big C) of food energy.

NoFederales

[leftstreet]

21. Can't believe this thread isn't getting votes.

It cuts to the heart of the matter.

Empty stomachs = revolution. As long as govt subsidies guarantee a 99 cent "value" burger, people will do nothing.

[PaulaFarrell]

22. you're wrong on one point

I live in the UK and I can easily feed myself each day for the minimum wage (£4-5, can't remember the exact figure) on real home-cooked food including meat, fresh fruit and veg. The impression tha food is cheap in the US is not really true in many respects. Fresh fruit and veg are much higher-priced than here and taste awful as well, almost inedible in many cases. Meat is cheap but it's also waterlogged and full of fat. I also think it's a myth that junk food is cheaper than real food. If it were, there would be no profit made by the companies producing it.

[Jed Dilligan]

24. Some childhood conditioning is required

Kids who eat McFood grow into adults who eat McFood. Part of the problem, of course, is a lack of cooking skills.

4-5 pounds is 8 or 9 US dollars, which a lot of Americans (who buy $1.99 "value meals") would consider exorbitant for a day's food.

But I agree with your basic point that actually good food can be cheaper than we tend to think in the USA.

[PaulaFarrell]

25. I was disagreeing with the OP's statement

that the US is the only country in the whole world ever to be able to buy a day's food for one hour's work at minimum wage. It's not true. It's possible to do the same in probably most western countries. Americans choosing to eat crap, that's a whole different question. I agree that £4-5 a day for groceries is a lot, and most people would probably spend half that if they cooked all their food from scratch.

[TheBaldyMan]

26. British produce can also be junk.

Any high street supermarket has 'value' cuts of meat with added water to make up the weight.
I'm mostly vegetarian because its harder to mess with vegetables. Also in the news recently, scottish kids have overtaken americans as the most obese. Healthy, good quality food isn't cheap.

[spooky3]

35. I don't mean to insult anyone but I agree that British food

is just as good and just as bad as American food, at least it was in London when I was there about a year ago. You have to pay a huge amount of money to get a good meal; fresh fruits and veggies even in the summer were very bad. In contrast, the French insist on better food, and they pay a lot for it. Good food is not cheap unless you have your own land and can grow a vegetable (and fruit) garden most months of the year.

As some posters noted, a major problem here is the subsidy structure. I don't know about subsidies in the UK. The govt. in the US (and some state govts.) choose to subsidize wheat, corn, etc., and not fresh fruits and vegetables, distorting the actual prices. Also, items made from these grains can be shot with preservatives so that they don't spoil rapidly on the grocery shelves. But fresh fruits and veggies spoil quickly, pushing up the costs and thereby the prices. Hormones that are permitted in meat may be illegal in some parts of Europe.

[PaulaFarrell]

41. I know it can be but speaking as a transplanted American

give me an English supermarket over an American any time. You really honestly cannot eat a lot of what passes for fruit and vegetables there, and the only fresh stuff that can be called cheap are bananas and onions, just about. Well. last time I checked anyway. Maybe things have dramatically improved in the last few years.

[Goldeneye]

27. It's that there is only room for two parties in the system,

and the two parties don't represent anyone. That and the way we run our elections pretty much cover why we don't have higher turnout.

[Jed Dilligan]

45. There's only room for two parties because less than half

of eligible voters vote, don't you think? I guess this is a chicken and egg question. If people weren't tricked into thinking they were nourished, they would be out looking for a leader. A viable third party will come up from below, not down from the top (like the Greens, Reform, etc.)

[Goldeneye]

46. I think we have a two party system

because that's the way the two parties want it. Third parties don't stand a chance unless they find a candidate that can finance themselves, like Perot. The whole electoral process is rigged against them. That and the republicans discouraging registration of the poor and minorities pretty much explains why we have such low turnout. Countries with automatic registration have much higher turnout, and countries with more than two parties have much higher turnout. Put them together and you have a lot of people voting. I'm not really sure where nourishment comes into it, but like a million other things it could be a factor.


Edit for my original post which is no longer editable...I meant the two parties don't represent everyone, not that they don't represent anyone.

[Jed Dilligan]

47. I guess my argument is that America's poor,

if they were not doped by fake food that gives them an illusion of being better off than they actually are, would form a third party on their own that wouldn't need to campaign through the media. (These are people who don't have cable, anyway, that I'm talking about...)

I mean, Gandhi never had to buy a TV ad...

[Goldeneye]

51. I guess I understand what you're saying,

but I don't see how any group can win without advertising. Look at us...we're a TeeVee Nation. I do think the poor already know they're getting the short end of the stick. I don't know how they couldn't know. But the fact remains that in countries with same day or automatic registration and more than one political party, voter turnout is much higher. There is no socio-economic gap in voting. The poor vote at the same rate as the rich in these countries. I've always believed it was because there were more parties, and each party can therefore take stronger stands on the positions. Citizens, poor and rich, can find someone who they feel represents them, and they can vote for them.

Besides all that, I don't know if the poor could start a party on their own that would have any impact. If it were as easy as that, it should've happened already. If lack of housing or clothes or an education can't get them to the polls, I can't see how knowing they're eating bad food would.

[we can do it]

28. I Think You Are Right About the Fast Food

I also think that the lack of exercise - addiction to TV and video games is part of the problem, too. People plop themselves in front of their monster-sized TV's with a bucket of fat and the brain ceases to function. I think the media blasting that it isn't safe for kids to be outside (kidnappers, perverts, etc.) also reinforces the fact - keep them inside in front of the boob tube.

[glitch]

36. You've pegged it there. I've often wondered where the hell that came from

"I think the media blasting that it isn't safe for kids to be outside (kidnappers, perverts, etc.) also reinforces the fact - keep them inside in front of the boob tube."

Fearful outside seemed to pop up out of nowhere, along with greed is good. Now it's pervasive. I feel so sorry for kids in their boring structured lives. No wonder their suicide rate keeps climbing. I am almost 50 now and I think my generation was the last of the free range Americans. And we weren't half as free as my parents. My mom used to hitch on freight trains to the nearest town when she was a kid. My dad joined the merchant marines at 16.

When my sister had her son I talked with her about how protected and structured his life was, and how it would not help his creative and analytical brain. She agreed, but she said if she let him roam free he'd be the only one out there, all the other kids were inside somewhere. No safety in numbers.

We've lost a lot.

[we can do it]

48. You're On To Something, Too

My neighbors watch their grandkids during the day and all of them play outside. The oldest boy is a "gifted" public school student with excellent interpersonal skills. All 5 of the kids are very bright and well adjusted. Also, a strange thing has been happening, more and more kids on the block have been playing outside and riding their bikes, etc. around the block. The only exception being the paranoid booshies with the psychotic kid who is terminally grounded. I feel bad for him.

[Evergreen Emerald]

30. I feel helpless in this current crisis

And guilty that in 50 years my family will wonder why I allowed the destruction of America to happen.

I write letters and make calls and vote. But, it is not enough.

I believe the election was stolen. I believe the media is not representing the truth regarding the poll numbers.

Remember the Washington protest? It was barely covered in the media, and the numbers were minimized (or they flat out lied).

I am not sure what to do. Day after day we discover more lies and more destruction on the part of the administration, minimized by the media, justified by Congress, complained about by the democrates. And nothing changes.

I am fatiqued and stunned to the point of in-action

[glitch]

38. I believe that simply being aware is the beginning of the solution.

When I get fatigued I take a break. Take a walk or a hike in the woods if you can.
We won't solve it all at once.

:pals:

[rman]

32. I think the food is definately a factor,

but not the only factor.
There's at least one other significant factor: the propaganda (aka "news").

[YOY]

33. Fear of Rocking the Boat

People don't want to lose what they have (even if they are losing it bit-by-bit) all at once. Major dissent could spell economic upheaval and could upset the (middle class) haves from what they have 'earned.'

The food we eat and being satiated is a definite factor, but no where near the entire shebang.

[Orangepeel]

39. Is your issue with the TYPE of food or the AMOUNT of food?

The issue of food quality in the United States is well worth discussing. Wishing that more Americans felt hungry so that they would advocate some social change is not something I would ever advocate.

[Jed Dilligan]

44. How about

them feeling as hungry as they actually ARE?

[leveymg]

42. Before the Wall came down, the Poles had the world's top calorie intake

Indeed, cheap food and mass spectacles have been a strategy of social control since the Roman bread and circuses.

The longterm impact of a McDonald's-based diet is developmental disability, obesity, cardio-vascular disease, and early death. There's probably a correlation of Big Mac consumption with political apathy, as well.

But, if sausage and beer and state media fed shipyard workers can rise up, given half a chance and some decent leadership, so can Big Mac eating, Bud swilling, Fox News watching no-collar Americans.

[Freddie Stubbs]

53. Communism fell first in Poland

I guess that the full stomaches did not keep the Poles happy.

[Bruce McAuley]

43. Corn syrup can be bad, but so can other ingredients...

My wife is allergic to yellow dye #5 or #6, it almost literally drives her crazy. Try making the rounds at the local grocery store and throwing back everything with yellow dye, it doesn't leave much. Not only that, try finding a medication that does not use yellow dye, it leaves out all the yellow, orange, and green pills, mostly, and we have to check the manufacturer's fact sheet at the pharmacy for every new medication she gets.
Also is the presence of soy lecithin in just about everything, which gives her stomach aches. NOW see what's left!
Needless to say, we make most of our food from scratch, and buy organic mayonnaise with canola oil in it and get beef from a local rancher once a year.
You are what you eat

Bruce

[greiner3]

49. A conspiracy theory?

That the neocons have put Valium in all the fast food meals and the only ones voting are elderly (who can't afford to eat out (or at all)), the fundies who have stay at home moms because that's the way JWDI, or something like that and the mormons (what was it, 86% for b*** in 204?).

[The Straight Story]

52. Ban food or make it harder to get

or something like that :)

[JeffR]

54. Hmmm

:popcorn:

[blindpig]

57. That's half of the equation.

Bread and circuses. You got the bread part, the other half is video entertainment, particularly TV.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. And TV is getting dumber by the minute

:eyes:

[Jed Dilligan]

62. Yet so many can't afford cable

It's hard to get your full day's supply of propaganda from 1/2 hour of local news. I don't disagree, but I think the nutrition is closer to the core. Every age has had its silly entertainments.

[blindpig]

68. I think TV is particularly insidious.

Something about our primate brains makes the moving color images and all that goes with them "too real". There's more to that old adage "seeing is believing" than it's face value.

[Jed Dilligan]

69. True that it's very misleading, but

a clear mind and a good education can cut right through it. There wouldn't be a DU if this were not the case. And TV can also be a force for good; it's just controlled by the wrong people.

There's nothing good about bad food. Unlike TV, it should simply be banned.

[sandyd921]

61. Do you know what ties it all together?

The corporate ownership of all facets of our lives: our food (the agri-business), our politics and government, the media, etc. They're even looking for ways to take over public education and privatize the education system (e.g., vouchers, NCLB). Get at the roots of the corporate hegemony and take back our government and we'll be able to address the subsidies to agri-business, poor diet, the media, and the general dumbing down of our society. Of course the conundrum is that we need a sufficient number of people who have been able to break out of the corporate-induced fog to bring about real change!

[Jed Dilligan]

63. Right.

I think "pure food" could be an excellent campaign issue. You know how repugs are always pulling issues (like gay marriage, etc.) out of their ass? This is a way we can hit them from left field in a similar way. If we get a POTUS candidate who hammers the issue enough to make the GOPig candidate respond, we WILL win on the issue--I'm sure of it. But more importantly--when we do win, let's make sure something actually gets done.

[robbedvoter]

66. Ceausescu was in power 21 years. Food was scarce and expensive

But the spying on people was ubicuituous AND conspicuous. Just like it's becoming here. People were afraid.

[Jed Dilligan]

67. So are you saying

people are afraid to vote because of domestic spying? Not challenging, just want clarification of the point.

[robbedvoter]

71. Ceausescu was the only name on the ballot. Virtually the same here.

By which I mean, people are not afraid to vote, they did vote - but Diebolt fixed that. No national election since 2000 was valid - and I am talking about most of the 2002 results here as well.

[Jed Dilligan]

72. If there was a real mass movement of poor people,

they could put up a candidate without mounting a "campaign." Look at MLK or Gandhi. They never needed to buy airtime. And a write-in campaign can't be Diebolded. See what I'm saying?

The illusion of being fed, when they are actually being poisoned, is preventing the poor from organizing in this way. That was my original point. I don't know what to do about it. Is it better to starve and feel fed, or to feel starved and thus do something about it?

[robbedvoter]

74. Actually, both Gandhi and MLK got plenty of headlines & airtime

A write-in campaign can be Diebolded - or rather dumped in the garbage - like the provisional/absentee ballots.
The Nader theory that the worse people have it the better for the struggle is pure BS. (not original, either).
Personally, I think organizing (& air time) is the only way to build anything.

[Jed Dilligan]

75. Do you think people are really "better off"

eating food that dulls their minds and ultimately, kills them?

[robbedvoter]

76. I have a hard time blaming it on the food. Seen worse in my life.

Sorry, but this seems kinda trivial to me. People in this country do have a choice as to what food to eat.
And if you never experienced hunger, I advise you to keep to your area of experience.

[Jed Dilligan]

77. Believe me, I've experienced it.

I know how it feels before and after you scrape together enough change from the ground to get a fast food meal.

Check out the movie "Supersize Me" if you don't buy the health effects.

Food is the #1 political issue of all time, and our corporate-government partnership has made it a non-issue by selling cheap, fake food. If people understood what a raw deal they were getting, they would get a lot more active.

[robbedvoter]

80. Scrape together for fast food? That's a joke.

I checked that movie. I especially remember the women who said they don't have enough money to go to Subway. How much brains does it take someone to MAKE a f*ing sandwich?
If you can afford fast food, you do not scrape. If you scrape and still didn't learn the art of cooking....whose fault is it? You can make it political - although your dream of starving people for their own good seems more in the realm of insanity - but people need to educate themselves about living without take out.

[Jed Dilligan]

81. Uh, when you're homeless and don't have a kitchen

or a grocery store within walking distance?

[robbedvoter]

82. Always an anlternative to fast food.

No grocery store within walking distance? Only a Mac Donald? Living there then? yeah, right.

[Jed Dilligan]

83. You should explore the inner city a little

you seem out of touch.

[robbedvoter]

87. Dear Jed - I live in the inner city. Fast food ain't cheap, driving

is NOT how you reach things most people do NOT have cars here- welcome to planet Earth.
You indulge in a trivial obession that it's offensive to half the world and accuse ME of being out of touch?

[Jed Dilligan]

88. Where?

Clearly, you've never been poor. Otherwise you wouldn't blame poor people for their bad diet. But thanks for keeping my thread kicked, love.

[robbedvoter]

89. I don't blame the poor - nor do I patronize them like you do.

I live in NYC and know how to live on $1 a day when needed - without the help of "cheap fast food". Happy your outrageous thread shows its red arse - after all, the Democrats are supposed to be for "the middle class" only - so, a thread like yours is only demonstrating to me how much I need - and lack political representation

[Jed Dilligan]

90. NYC doesn't fucking count. We're sick of hearing from you.

Try living on the streets of Sacramento or Denver sometime. You might find yourself ten miles from any non-fast-food and blocked off by a freeway.

My guess is that you are a bourgeois New Yorker, because no poor person in history has ever bragged that they "know how to live on $1 a day when needed." Those are the words of a trust fund baby if I ever heard one.

[robbedvoter]

91. This trust fund baby is referring you to the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch

http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/HollywoodBowl/TheWeAreSoPoorSketch

The "We Were Poor" Sketch

because this is too absurd to continue.
Sorry NYC makes you so sick, but one dollar buys you the best 4 bagels in certain stores - actually - only 3 lately- no poisons in them whatsoever. Add $3 more, and I can cook a 3 course meal - but I guess us New Yorkers know better. Respecting others and not wishing disasters on them helps with the digestion.

[Jed Dilligan]

92. My God, you are so the stereotype of the arrogant New Yorker!

Please visit some other US cities sometime. We don't have your pedestrian scale, your public transportation, or your goddamned bagel stores. I know it is hard to believe but it is true.

And you never addressed what a person is supposed to do without a kitchen, or cooking skills, or access to food stores.

And if you think millions of people in this country aren't (just barely) surviving on 99-cent value meals--I don't even know how to begin to talk to you.

But thanks for keeping my thread on the greatest page, at any rate.

[robbedvoter]

93. You poor car owners you! Must be tough....

As I said, if you enjoy showing your arse in this thread, be my guest. Did you enjoy the 4 Yorkshiremen? I think the Pythons do it better.

[Jed Dilligan]

94. I don't own a fucking car

I don't give a flying fuck about your yorkshiremen, and if you're so intent on seeing "arse," I suggest you turn safesearch off and run a google image search on the term.

on edit: here's an "arse" for you:

[catmother]

96. don't pay attention to RobbedVoter. (s)he likes to get into

arguments with people. i'm a former new yorker (not an arrogant one) and i can say for sure that there are hungry people on the street -- they're there day and night and even though i am not a consumer of fast or junk food i would imagine when you're hungry and you get some money you would go to the nearest place for some food.

on edit: even if someone has never gone hungry, you can be empathic toward those who do and give a helping hand.

[Nutmegger]

70. I agree

I know my fellow peers at the university could care less about what's going on today. The comments I receive vary from "all of these people are corrupt" to "they don't care about my needs so why should I bother". I bet if they stopped making iPods, the students would be out on the streets (no offense to other students...there are a few that are interested).

On edit: oh, and nominated!

[LiberalEsto]

73. That and the mercury in our systems

from dental amalgams, preservatives in vaccines (such as the thimoserol preservative which is not only a suspect in cases of autism that develops after kids get their MMR shots, but is used as a preservative for flu vaccines), and from fish in the food chain.

I may be a touch paranoid, but I think all this mercury is making us sickly, weak and less intelligent. And I think the daily bombardment of untested chemicals adds to the problem.

[Jed Dilligan]

78. Stranger things have happened

Medieval "crazy bread," made from various hallucinogenic plants in times of grain scarcity, led to outbreaks of violent mass psychosis. I don't know about mercury--the people I'm talking about generally don't eat fish, don't visit dentists, and often aren't vaccinated. But I'm ready to be educated on the subject.

[davsand]

79. Yes, the American diet sucks.

No doubt about it. Something I find especially interesting about it all is that a lot of our problems come from "fast" food and "convenience" foods. People don't take time too cook whole foods any more, and as a result most of the fiber is lost along with the nutritive content.

We use Minute Rice. We use canned soups, and instant potatoes, boxes of mac and cheese, pre-breaded fish portions, chicken strips that are breaded, pre-made entrees--the list is endless.

ALL of that stuff is easier to make and takes less time to prepare. It also is really high in saturated fats and carbs--both of which contribute to being overweight if consumed in large amounts. Those same foods have very little left in the way of fiber which helps keep you from absorbing all the calories you've just eaten.

People don't even take time to eat breakfast--and THAT lets your blood sugar drop so low that you are ravenous by the time coffee break or even lunch time hits. After you eat, you have too much sugar spilling into your blood and the next thing you know you are tired and sluggish. THEN you reach for a candy bar or some source of caffeine or sugar...

I began eating whole grains and eliminated pre-prepared foods less than four months ago and I have dropped 20 pounds already. I now eat breakfast every day--with some kind of protein in it--and I find that I don't have that wild blood sugar ride like I used to.

I can't attribute my dislike of the current regime to my new diet. I hated that SOB when he was running the first time. What I DO attribute to my new diet, however, is an increase in mental function and generally feeling a whole lot better.

Simply put, if you feel like shit you just don't think as well. American might be obese, but make no mistake--they are starving for proper nutrition. Small wonder the asswipe got elected again...



Laura

[catmother]

97. i agree. good nutrition should be taught by the government and

in the schools. let's face it though, the food industry is in bed with the government. now the dairy industry is trying to tell us that if we eat 3 servings of dairy a day, we'll lose belly fat. i don't touch dairy foods and most other processed foods. they're full of chemicals, hormones, preservatives and that goes into our bodies. did you know at one time there was MSG in baby food? i think that garbage should be banned. it's also in most of the processed foods.

i have the luxury of being able to afford organic food and free range meat. isn't it ironic that we have to pay more to have less things in our food?

well i could go on and on but you've made a good point and so have many of the posters.

[NoFederales]

99. Some schools get kickbacks from soda/juice vendors, snack bars, cafeteria

plans, etc. Nice little slush funds for administrators. And federally required nutrition plans--forget that happening.

NoFederales

[catmother]

100. isn't that sad? poisoning our children. one school, i don't

remember where it is has stopped having soda in their machines. they've replaced it with juices, bottled water, etc.

[NoFederales]

101. Sadder yet are the schools that allow breaks during class and between

classes, all day, every day to get snacks, soda, junk--and that's on what many of these teenagers subsist. Administration doesn't care, school nurse doesn't care, the cafeteria nutritionist doesn't--Hell, even the coaches and Health/PE teachers don't care.

I do not believe this practice healthy, nor conducive to learning; but if parents don't take the initiative.......

NoFederales

[catmother]

102. the parents don't take the initiative because their uninformed or

they don't care. i've been practising and preaching about healthy eating habits for about 25 years, but my husband still eats garbage (he's gotten a little better). my mom is 83 and lives on candy, ice cream, donuts, white bread, very little protein -- she showed me the other day the fish sticks that she bought -- you know the ones -- pre-breaded -- ingredients that you can't pronounce. she won't even taste anything that i cook. she loves rice pudding so i made some with brown rice, sweetened with maple syrup and soy milk. she took one look and wouldn't even taste it and it happens to be quite good.

i see people in the grocery store and i see what they're buying and i don't understand it. the information is out there -- do they just ignore it or do they think "well i've lived this long -- i guess it's okay". sometimes i can't keep my big mouth shut. last week my grocery line was held up because the guy in front of me didn't realize he was entitled to a free pepsi 6 pack. i remarked that it's nice of pepsi to give away something that will eat away the enamel on your teeth. he looked at me like i had 2 heads.