DID THE SOUTH DO IT AGAIN?

[BILL53]

For you people that know who Charlie Daniels is, better known as the Charlie Daniels Band, a southern country-rock band from Tennessee, they came out with a song called "The South's Gonna Do It Again". If you will listen to the song closely, I think you will understand what he is saying. The south did do it again. And as you well know, the Yankee's kicked the south's ass during the civil war. But how did the south get back? Well, when's the last president that you know of that's been from the north? Your last northern president was John F. Kennedy. Oh, and by the way, the south didn't like Abraham Lincoln, and they didn't like John F. Kennedy. So, the south has been able to keep mostly southern presidents, with the exception of Reagan. Why is this I wonder? The south did it again not in a civil war as we had in Lincoln days, but in a political war, as we've had during the Nixon, Reagan, Bush and Bush. My question is why would those hard working southern people vote Republican? Well, I guess it goes back to Kennedy, of the sixties when all the neocons that had fallout shelters and scared of someone bombing us before we bombed them. Sort of like it is now. The south has always been conservative and the democrats were once conservative until the sixites revolution. You know what I mean. When Creedence Clearwater came out with Fortunate Son. Beatles came out with Revolution. Well, you know, those protest songs that don't get played anymore since ClearChannel owns all these radio stations now. They censor those songs out now. Oh, well, back to the story. The south has been able to convert even the northerners. How did this happen? And even people are moving from California to the south and voting republican. The republican party is stronger than it has ever been. And 2006 will be the year that will decide if the republican party will keep it's strength. Religion plays a big part in the south and always has. Even the baddest of bad believe in morals in the south. And the south works hard to keep their people brainwashed? educated? voting? Whatever they are doing, it's working in their favor as far as politics goes. The southerners will tell you, blacks and whites will tell you, that it was the northern blacks that started all the trouble in the south in the Martin Luther King days. That's the reason that George Wallace of Alabama and Lester Maddox of Georgia got elected time after time because the blacks as well as the whites did not want segragation This is according to my interviews with the southern people. So, some of the southern people that I talked to would tell me, in their school days, baby boomer days, that they played as kids as confederate soldiers and yankees and of course the confederate soldiers won. The south has been known for it's southern hospitality. And hospitality you will get but if you come down to the south as a northerner, don't dare put that northern yankee attitude on a southerner, because he or she will flat put you in your place very quickly. From what I can gather, the south is getting off on the fact that they have beat the yankees and made a come back and got even through the political war. All you got to do is listen to your music, Sweet Home Alabama by Lynard Skynard, which was a comeback to Neil Young's Southern Man. The south cannot stand the blue states. They hate California. They hate the state Massachusetts. So, do you think you will ever get a John F. Kennedy back in office? How about Senator Kerry? As much as I am a John F. Kennedy fan and agreed with him and I even voted for Senator John Kerry, I feel that John Kerry will never be elected. And I feel that you will never see anybody elected from the north for a long, long time unless they are very conservative and think like the south. So, I think northern presidents is out of the question. Even if Hillary Clinton wins, remember, she is from the south. Although I'm on your side and think much like you, I thought I would break some stuff down that you probably already know. So, did the south do it again? Politically speaking, yes.

[AX10]

1. Lincoln's biggest mistake was that he did...

not "finish the job" when he had the chance. If I were President instead of Lincoln, the South(Confederate Terrorists) would have been the next Carthage.

and again, your post does explain why I proudly disavow that evil Country "Music".

This is the 21st Century and the South is changing too. Except for the deep south, the rest of the south will not be anywhere near as red as it is right now.

[raysr]

6. The southern states

should've been broken up or allowed to secede. They have such a lock polically because of the ridiculous electoral votes allowed them.

[Bake]

48. No, we're not entitled to the same electoral votes that northern

states get ... Rhode Island or New Hampshire ... or the big empty western states like Utah, Wyoming, Montana, etc.

Nope. Us Southerners should just sit down and shut the f*** up.

And you people have the NERVE to talk like Democrats! This place gets more and more unrecognizable every day. Maybe you should emulate Howard Dean and try actually TALKING to Southerners about the ISSUES, instead of bashing the South. Try winning without us. Oops, that's what you've BEEN doing. Glad that's working out so well for ya.

Bake

[FreedomAngel82]

108. As a southern liberal democrat I agree

Maybe not ignore us and people will see why they should vote for them. We have to get out and speak to people. Look at Mark Warner for example.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

7. Um, the Union Army did

kinda make the south the "new carthage," last I read. Burned crops so non-combatants would starve. Assaulted women. Raped, pillaged, stole. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Sounds like you take issue w/ Lincoln's "With malice toward none . . . " stance, which was a cute little hollow phrase to begin with, considering what the south had already experienced.

Just sayin' . . .

:hi:

[cry baby]

10. "If I were President...the south would have been the next Carthage"

says a lot about you.

[AX10]

31. It says alot about the region that so many are a stilll...

contemptuous about their losing the Civil War. It's been 140+ years already. GET OVER IT.

[QC]

32. The only people I regularly encounter who are still fighting the war

are alleged "liberals and progressives" on DU.

As you say, it's been over 140 years. You need to get a life and get over it.

[AX10]

35. I'm not fighting the civil war still.

:eyes:

[QC]

36. Sure you are. You're sitting here griping about Lincoln's failure

to commit war crimes and genocide. Sounds to me like you're sharing with us all your somewhat disturbing views on how the war should have been fought.

As you say, it's over and has been over for more than 140 years. You need to get on with your life.

[ruggerson]

71. Excuse me?

The only people I've ever seen grouse about the Civil War are southerners with rebel flags on their cars.

[Dhampir Kampf]

73. Do what?

Civil rights leaders, NEVER groped about the war?

lmao

[Dhampir Kampf]

74. Southerns usually

..don't even know the meaning of the flag anymore, as you apparently don't either.

The 'rebel flag', you speak of wasn't even the national flag of the Confederacy. The First, Second, and then lastly Third National, where the flags of the South. The flag that you speak of was a Battle flag. It wasn't a flag flown in camp, just waved around on the battle field.

Most people just either A) Wear/put the flag somewhere just to piss people off. B)Actually knows what it stands for, and put it there or C) Just wear it as a sign that they are an ignorant redneck.

[ruggerson]

I never saw civil rights leaders grope anyone

but if you meant gripe, then no, why would they gripe about a war which was won by their side and which liberated their people?

The south wanted them enslaved. The north wanted them free. The north won, remember?

[Berserker]

89. I don't think he/she was talking

about civil rights leaders. The point I believe he/she was trying to make was we in the North do NOT talk about the civil war at all. I am a Yankee born and raised in the North. When I moved to the south I then found out I was a "Yankee" whatever the fuck that is. I had never even thought of it before that. I put up with so much bullshit just because I sounded like a Yankee. I have never in my life been looked down upon like that and it has left a lasting impression of the south on me. Never in my 52 years have I ever heard or seen anyone in the North say you sound like a fucking rebel where you from boy?

[Dhampir Kampf]

90. Please

...You know that if an Alabama boy walked into a pizza place in the middle of New York, he'd be looked at funny. I'm not saying that it's wrong, but it's everywhere. I, even though I live in VA, would crack on somebody who'd talk like that.

And even if you called someone...southern, or even, 'rebel' (though I hate that word, cause they didn't start a rebellion)..they'd probably be proud of it.

And they said that the ONLY people who talk about the War, is battleflag-bumper-sticker-type-people.

[FreedomAngel82]

109. Oh sure

I remember when I was in junior high my family and I went out west around the Washington state area and I was talking to someone in my family and another person heard me talking and knew where I was from. :shrug: Wasn't bad but they just seemed to recognize my accent. I've lived in the south my whole life and do enjoy it here. It's a more relaxed feel and yes I have been to the north.

[QC]

103. I've spent most of my life in Alabama, Mississippi, and Florida, and

I can't remember the last time I had a conversation about the Civil War in real life, but it's a constant topic of discussion here. And, of course, it's not Southern DUers who ramble on and on about it.

[FreedomAngel82]

110. Only time I have is in US History class

:shrug:

[rinsd]

47. "the next Carthage"

I think Sherman's march came pretty close to that.

Also add to the fact that Radical Reconstruction may have done more to foster Northern hatred than the Civil War. Especially amongst the non-elite.

"If I were President instead of Lincoln, the South(Confederate Terrorists) would have been the next Carthage."

This line cracks me up considering how popular secession is here.

[Hosnon]

61. Ummm...Sherman's March? Tell that to Georgians...nt

[mitchum]

84. Well, they deserved it, but not as much as did South Carolinians...

and I'm a native sandlapper

[Dhampir Kampf]

91. Please, mitchum, go and read about the war.

These were innocent CIVILIANS. Yes, like those that of Iraq, that were/are being killed. They didn't do anything. They didn't deserve to have their house burned down, because of something they had absolutely no control of.

[mitchum]

95. No, they should have killed the wealthy landowners who were beating...

the war drums for their own economic interests. But they didn't.
I know all about the Confederacy (and the sentimental convolutions of its present day apologists)

[QC]

98. And all those people in Iraq should have killed Saddam

and thus avoided being "collateral damage."

[mitchum]

99. As I said...I am familiar with all of the sentimental convolutions...

of apolgists for the Confederacy.
Face it, the typical cracker has ALWAYS been a happy lackey for:
the landowners
cotton mill owners
textile mill owners
Walton board of directors
That's why the rebel myth is so strong down heah in Dixie. Because it's just a myth.

[QC]

104. I bear no brief for the Confederacy, but I do have to speak up when I see

logic being tortured, and when it comes to that form of torture, you are giving Gonzales a run for the money here.

It is never acceptable to wage war against noncombatants. Ever.

[mitchum]

105. Well, waging war against "noncombatants" is the only way to combat...

guerrilla warfare. Ooops...I forgot, the Confederacy was too stupid to wage guerrilla warfare. And THAT would have been the ONLY chance the south had of prevailing. But you can't really expect a region that worships hierarchies to forgo tradition, can you? Why, those Charleston wicker fetishists wouldn't have had their dashing uniforms and regiments under their command.
Wm. Sherman was the second greatest American military strategist. Of course, Francis Marion occupies the number one spot.

[cry baby]

2. I love your post, but it would be

so much easier to read if you broke it up into paragraphs. Some DUers are old and have a hard time seeing. (that's me)

I'm from the south, but I don't hate other states. I kind of get the idea that it's only the southern rednecks that hate the north. The south is changing, however, as many northerners are moving into the suburbs, and as you say, they are mostly voting repub.

[sarcasmo]

82. This might help you read online better.

Act like you are copying a paragraph to paste it. You will get a color over the wording, this should help you see it better than the black and white.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

3. Welcome to DU

As a born-and-bred southerner, I take issue with some of your theses.

Liberals and progressives in the south have been ghettoized.

The Democratic Party's failure to win the south has as much to do with its failure to even try as with anything else. You can't win what you concede.

To suggest that the South is some collective monolith is unrealistic. "The South" is not a creature. Heck, it's not even a voting block. Are you telling me that southern blacks are "getting off" (your words) on Bush being president?

The "solid south" has as much to do with election fraud and vote suppression as it does with some throwback to bygone days of plantation mentality.

P.S. Hillary's from Illinois. She's no more an Arkansan than she is a New Yorker

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. First.. Bush I and II are not southern....

second... Paragraphs man!

Other than that, very good.

Carry on.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

8. Maybe it would be advisable for the Democratic Party

to actively remind southerners that the Bushes are a bunch of Yankees. (Sorry, northern DU brothers and sisters). It's a word that's still in currency south of the Mason-Dixie line.

[PatGund]

22. Agreed

Friends of mine in Texas routinely refer to the Bush family as "Yankees" and "Carpetbaggers".

[mitchtv]

68. I proudly accept the term Yankee

my forfathers helped found NY/RI. Yankee by Birth,Yankee by choice.
Bush was texan governor they elected him he's Texan alright

[demo dutch]

44. Hillary is not really from the South either grew up in Illinois

[RagingInMiami]

5. Is that suppose to be one paragraph?

[BILL53]

12. Paragraphs YES!!

Paragraphs YES!! Sorry, I was in a hurry at the time!!

And I forgot that Mrs Clinton was from ILL.

[melody]

9. Some of our greatest progressives are southerners

I keep having to repeat the list, but it reads like a who's who of liberal thinkers.

Charlie Daniels may be a right-wing nazi, but Tim McGraw and Garth Brooks are liberals. Two of the chief creative forces in "Brokeback Mountain" are southerners.

I was born and raised in California, but my people came from the south. My grandparents were liberals and there were no greater southern souls than theirs.

What is happening is we're fracturing down the center. Liberal Presidents preserve our nation. Bush is using our "dividedness" to destroy our unity, for his own suspect reasons.

It's not a north OR south issue -- it's a matter of international sociopaths using the fault-line against both sides.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

38. CHING!!! CHING!!!

What's that sound I hear? :nopity: Is the the MELODY of truth? I KNOW it is and I'm not a tin-foil topped paranoid! That's a VERY good observation melody!

[FreedomAngel82]

111. Don't forget Al Gore

He's from the south.

[Der Blaue Engel]

11. "Although I'm on your side and think much like you"

I'm not sure what this means. It sounds as though you consider DU to be a "they" to whom you (not part of "they") are speaking. Generally, we think of each other as "we" around here.

As for the South, similarly, I prefer not to think in terms of "us" and "them." We're all in this together, being abused by this illegimate government together.

And the Bushes aren't from the South, for that matter, but from New England.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

13. Right!

It's Connecticut's fault.

Let's secede Connecticut from us! As an added bonus, we'd be getting shed of a little Joementum! :rofl:

[BILL53]

15. I'm not sure what this means.

I'm not sure what this means. It sounds as though you consider DU to be a "they" to whom you (not part of "they") are speaking. Generally, we think of each other as "we" around here.

As for the South, similarly, I prefer not to think in terms of "us" and "them." We're all in this together, being abused by this illegimate government together.

And the Bushes aren't from the South, for that matter, but from New England.


we think of each other as "we" around here.TRUE! Think about how southerns talk!! I put it in hoping you would catch that and you did!!

And the Bushes aren't from the South, for that matter, but from New England. True!! But
southerns think of Texas NOT New England!

[driver8]

14. Shrubby is from Connecticut -- last time I checked, that wasn't in

the south.

He may talk like he thinks a southerner should talk, but he is a phony.

[CTLawGuy]

16. Well we're not the ones who keep voting for him

don't foist him on us.

[driver8]

19. Hey -- I live in California! We certainly don't want him! n/t

[CTLawGuy]

41. see it makes no sense

if Bush was a Yankee, and southerners don't vote for Yankees, then why do they vote for Bush?

[Paranoid Pessimist]

64. Because he playacts being a Texas Cowboy and they want to believe n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

112. Lots of people believe he's from Texas

Go out to the local mall and ask a 100 people if they know where Bush is from and see how many tell you Texas.

[Autumn Colors]

17. Sorry to flame

But frankly, this blue state northerner feels much the same way towards the south. That is one part of the country I have and have never had any desire to visit nor could you ever PAY me enough to live there. If all of Dixie wanted to secede again, I'd say... Don't let the door smack you in the ass on the way out.

Sorry... but I used to get shipped to my grandparents' house in Central FL for a month every summer in the 1970s (against my will). I absolutely hated it there and this was long before I ever had any knowledge or interest in politics.

I'm sure I'll get chewed out by southern DUers, but that's how I feel. Sorry.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Adelante]

69. LOL!

:D

[mtnsnake]

77. Then why the heck did you just flame her inside your post?

Looks like you know something about being willfully ignorant, yourself, eh?

[QC]

97. It's called irony, friend.

Painfully literal people often fail to recognize it, so don't feel too bad.

[FreedomAngel82]

113. Oh I'm glad you value my vote

Thanks for that. And you want to win people over with that attitude? *snort* Good luck!

[reality based]

18. Democrats can nibble away at the south as demographic changes take place

but we must try to win with a northern and western core.

Racism (often disguised as religion) still inhibits our appeal in the south. A growing hispanic population holds promise and the black vote potential is still there-- provided the power structure doesn't disqualify substantial numbers as felons. The south has always been ambivalent, almost schizophrenic, about democracy. Democrats have been forced in recent decades to choose between white populism and decency. We have generally chosen well.

If the new evangelical movement can be persuaded to confront issues of social and economic justice instead of evolution, gays and abortion, the south can be competitive in national races. Otherwise, we should pick and choose as opportunities present themselves.

Unfortunately, the native son on the ticket ploy no longer seems to be guaranteed in the south as it once was, even in a candidate's home state.

Finally, the second Bush is only too typical of a certain kind of southern yahoo mentality crossing class lines that must be acknowledged and dealt with if we are to succeed in recapturing southern voters.

[HuskerDU]

20. Charlie Daniels was not a maniacal right winger when he

wrote that song. He even campaigned for Jimmy Carter. Somewhere in the 1980's ol Charlie changed his tune in a big way... see 'Uneasy Rider '88.'

[autorank]

21. Maybe but having to listen to Charlie Daniels is it's own punishment;)

:puke: on blowhards from any part of the country!

I'm a Johnny Cash guy myself, you know, the Johnny Cash from the film. He picked his oiwn biographical period.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

23. GUESS WHERE THE GHOST IS FROM BILL

Yep, it's a new Reality TV series, just for DU!

Born in a city instrumental in building early US Democracy Philadelphia and raised in Alabama, I have a unique perspective. I spent every summer in MA, where Mom's Catholic side of the family still lives. I spent childhood in the deep south in a town where all of Dad's Southern Baptist relatives have now left. It's a University town where I saw, Hendrix, Abby Hoffman and Jerry Rubin alive, preachy and feisty in another time. I was an atheist by 13 and quite sure Karl Marx had all the answers. I was wrong and probably still am but I think the Neo-Platonists have many answers. I'm glad those writers brought me back to Divinity; it was a long journey. It might amuse you when I say that while growing up I fought the civil war from first one side in Alabama because of my views on racism and then in Massachusetts every summer because girls found my accent cute and I love certain aspects of the deep south. I'm not talking arguements when I use the term, "fight."

Don't blame the south for a Connecticut Yankee blue-blood named Bush. And try, as you write, Bill to avoid lumping people into a group before you pass such swift judgment. Whether it's Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity or Confucianism matters little, the message remains the same. Judge not least ye be judged. I hope you continue to grow... You may be on the right path.

Here's a song for you:

I've looked at life from both sides now,
From win and lose, and still somehow
It's life's illusions i recall.
I really don't know life at all.


Be sure and stay tuned... My next board on perhaps the greatest Rep president of all may answer alot of your questions... Have you ever heard of the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX?

[WilliamPitt]

24. You need to do some more research on Skynard

They campaigned vigorously for Jimmy Carter, and that song specifically is not any kind of right-wing banner cry.

Ask ZombyWoof, who lives mostly in the Lounge. He has all the info on that song memorized.

PS, break your posts up. The uniparagraph is almost completely unreadable.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

25. hi william

Do you find that when we lump ANY group of people together, it becomes a relative of anti-semitism or racism?

[WilliamPitt]

26. Broad generalizations always fail

My father and half my family are from Alabama. So I guess half my family belongs in the category he has crafted.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

27. half of my family still live in MA

Mom was excommunicated for marrying a Southern Baptist and them moving down south, so no one better bash New England Yankees either, unless they want their thread haunted by Jeffesons Ghost! LOL

Thanks for taking the time to reply, William... be sure and catch a thread I'm considering right now... It will be on the real problem in America that a great Republican was the first one to identify: It will have a screwy title but will analyze and reveal the Military Industrial Complex and how it has likely taken control of both major partys in America. Study up... I'll get a good bashing from readers when I post that thread.

[mmonk]

29. I didn't realize the neocon movement was southern.

[QC]

30. One can learn lots of interesting things here, you know?

Of course, many of them aren't true, but hey, myths can be very comforting, like pretending that one part of the country is responsible for all its problems.

[mmonk]

37. Yep

Myths absolve responsibility. Examples are Senators Clinton and Lieberman. Myths allow ignoring people like Al Gore and where he is from. If ones wants to choose southern oriented musicians as proof, one is allowed to ignore Willie Nelson, the Dixie Chicks, Faith Hill, etc.

[mitchum]

80. Germinated at U of Chicago, fertilized in Orange County, found very...

fertile soil in Dixie

[mmonk]

33. So now I know what you think.

Everybody has their prejudices and world view.

[blm]

34. GUESS WHAT? I wish Clinton had NOT WON IN 92. This country would've been

better off if Bush1 had remained in office and been IMPEACHED for the crimes in IranContra and BCCI.

But, NOOOOOOOOOO..... they let Clinton get in and Clinton would not pursue any further investigations of the Bush1 administration.

That whole crew would have ended up in jail and impeached, but Clinton CHANGED THE SUBJECT for them, he absolutely refused to allow further investigation, and discouraged Dems from any further pursuit, acting as if to do so would get in the way of all the good progress he wanted to make.

BULLSHIT. BushInc already has destroyed every ounce of progress that was made and didn't even have to break a sweat to do it.

We now see what their dirty dealings from back then were working towards - global fascism. Clinton allowing them off the hook back then, gave them free rein to regroup and become stronger - this time WITH CONTROL OF THE MEDIA.

[Dhampir Kampf]

75. wtf?

becoming president, which means, getting those fuckfaces out of office, was a BAD thing? That's all impeachment would've done.

[mitchum]

96. No, blm is absolutely correct

[No Exit]

39. Connecticut yankee currently in the White House. What about f'ing Reagan??

Game. Set. Match.

(Apologies to Connecticut... I know you guys don't want to claim him.)

And Reagan warn't no southerner, son.

Now, boy, lissen REAL GOOD: it was the fucking REPUBLICANS that did RECONSTRUCTION. The south remembered this for 100 years, then they (we) forgot it. It's time to remind the south again.

[Punkingal]

40. "The South" one big fire-breathing monster???

Funny, I feel very much like a PERSON. An INDIVIDUAL. And so does my whole family who lives here, and would DIE before they ever voted for a Republican. I despise these posts who lump us all together as some sort of idiots. Ever hear of Al Gore? He is a southerner, and this website exists because of him. What about Jimmy Carter? And guess what? I LIVED in California, and didn't hate it....I LOVED it, and still do. As I loved New York when I lived there and went to CORNELL. (Surprise, surprise! One of them with an education.)

It is bigoted and ignorant to talk about the South as one big entity. There are plenty of good people here who despise Bush and all he stands for, and I can also tell you because they have told me, a lot of Bush voters in my neck of the woods (Middle Tennessee) are very SORRY they voted for him.

[mitchum]

42. Yes! The south's traditional anti-intellectualism, love of...

social hierarchies, religious superstition, racism and xenophobia have now become mainstream American "values"
And that's a damn shame

[Bake]

50. Try selling that crap at Vanderbilt ...

The South is no more anti-intellectual than the Rust Belt.

I am appalled at the ridiculous generalizations here.

Bake

[mitchum]

57. I AM a native southerner and the ugly truth is that the EXCEPTIONAL...

southerner is EXCEPTIONAL because he is...well...the EXCEPTION.
Granted, there have been MANY progressive southerners (Wm. Faulkner and MLK are just two), but it is dishonest to posit that the "qualities" I listed in my post have not always held sway in the south. Oh, and I left out anti-union sentiment.

I don't hate the south, just most of my fellow southerners. No apologies.

[QC]

58. It is also intellectually dishonest to posit that the South ever had a

lock on those qualities and sent them out to contaminate some mythic virtuous America.

Look at America's history and you will find plenty of religious fanaticism (early New England and the witch trials, the Great Awakenings, etc.), racism (the absolute dominance of the slave trade by Massachusetts and Rhode Island, lynchings of Chinese immigrants in California, etc.), anti-intellectualism (Harvard's longtime practice of assigning class rankings according to students' social standing), capitalist brutality (the textile mills of New England), etc.

Howard Zinn has written about that simplistic, naive, self-congratulatory view that presents the South as a negative force that corrupted an otherwise blameless America. He argues that, to the contrary, the South is America distilled--that it is a place where America's problems are cast into sharp relief. Zinn's view is closer to the reality of the situation, but of course the other one will always remain popular, because it allows people to pretend to be innocent by letting a scapegoat take the blame for the state of the world.

[mitchum]

60. Hey, I am not an apologist for the USA (it certainly does have a brutual..

and ugly history), but it is dishonest to deny that the south has always been an opponent of progressive reforms in this country.
I also agree with both Zinn and Mr Faulkner (there he is again) that the south is indeed a place where America's problems are cast into sharp relief. And that too is a damned shame.

[Arkana]

63. Anti-intellectualism is not just limited to the South.

That attitude pervades pretty much the entire country--how do you explain Asshole?

As a DUer in the bluest of the blue states (MA), I used to think the South was entirely backwards morons who hated anyone who wasn't a WASP.

My attitude changed after a few weeks here. Some of the funniest, most passionate, and most dedicated Democrats I have met here have been from the South. They are outnumbered down there, but they are not non-existent.

Let's try to keep that in mind.

[AX10]

43. "Even the baddest of bad believe in morals in the south."=HYPOCRACY!

...just remember that.

[QC]

46. HYPOCRACY!

ILLITERACY!

[demo dutch]

45. Not just the South also the Slave States & BTW Hillary grew up in IL

[oneoftheboys]

49. Anti-southern bigotry seems to gaining popularity.

[radio4progressives]

51. the format of this post makes it difficult to read...

i got as far as the part where you say that the north kicked the south's ass, and actually that isn't quite accurate.

Yes the North could claim victory towards the end of the war, but the South never accepted defeat. Indeed, one hundred years later in the 1960's, students had to pass U.S. History before they could be promoted or graduate from High School, where i lived.

But can you guess what a U.S History course entailed in this class?

If you guessed it was nearly soley focused on the Civil War throughout the entire year, you would be correct. Not just knowing every General and every battle and the outcome, but the actual tactical strategies we were required to know - defeats, retreats, how and then why's, locations, marches, who led them, how many died, etc..

All this to point out that the Civil War was still being fought in the minds of many in the South just 40 some years ago.

[quaoar]

52. I got my hair cut today by a country gal

right here in the Heart of Dixie (Alabama to you yankees) who was rambling on about "fried white meat, cat-head biscuits and red-eye gravy."

And ya know what? She didn't once mention the Civil War or northern blacks. And she wasn't humming Charlie Daniels' tunes.

Maybe she didn't get the memo.

Y'all have a nice day.

[tn-guy]

53. I don't hate the northern states

I was born and raised in the South so perhaps I've got a biased perspective but I think there were quite a few misconceptions in this post.

First, although the South is probably more homogeneous than other regions of the country it is hardly a monolithic block. The culture of the Gulf Coast from Bayou LaBattre across the Mississippi Gulf to Louisiana is far removed from that of Atlanta, or Charleston and the Low Country or the western Carolina mountains or Middle Tennessee.

Second, I think the number of people who are still fighting the (Civil War, War Between the States, Rebellion, Recent Unpleasantness, War of Yankee Aggression - take your pick) is pretty small. That said, one lingering effect is that the South is the only part of the country with an institutional memory of what it is like to lose a war and be occupied. This tends to make folks a little more wary of the experience and thus a little more likely to support military preparedness and spending. Not that this is a big thing - as I said, a little more likely.

Lastly, I don't think that many Southerners hate the northern states. Heck, a lot of people here have recently moved from the north. I will confess that many Southerners, myself included, get a little riled at what is perceived to be a unwarranted superior attitude by many in the north. One example will suffice. I grew up in rural Alabama during the heyday of George Wallace, but Birmingham in 1965 couldn't hold a candle as a segregated city to modern-day Boston.

[The Magistrate]

106. The Proper Term, Sir

Is the War of Southern Treason....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[ieoeja]

54. "If you will listen to the song closely"

You write, "f you will listen to the song closely, I think you will understand what he is saying."

Apparently, you did NOT listen to the song closely. Because the song pays homage to all the southern rock bands of the era. It is solely about beer-drinking and hell-raising, i.e. LIBERAL values.

The song has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the South Is Going To Rise again.

[wyldwolf]

55. The south didn't like Kennedy? Fact check!

Kennedy won SC, NC, GA, LA, Arkansas, TX, and half of Alabama. The other half didn't vote Republican. They voted independent.



Kennedy had a 60% approval rating in the South in March of 1963 - it did drop, however, to 44% by September based on civil rights. However, that had nothing to do with him being a Northerner, and he also lost a bit of his popularity in other parts of the country.

[rinsd]

62. That was more Johnson than Kennedy though in terms of Southern appeal

It's why Johnson was on the ticket in the first place.

[wyldwolf]

65. There are always reasons why a president is popular

I've shown where Kennedy was popular in the South. There are always reasons why a president is popular.

[rinsd]

66. Ya know I missed the approval rating at the bottom of your post..

...and I reacted to the electoral map.

Sorry about that.

[WCGreen]

56. Nixon is from California and Ford from Michigan....

IT wasn't Kennedy that pushed the South Red...

It was Johnson.. After signing the Civil Rigths laws, Johnson said we (meaning democrats) just lost the south....

[wyldwolf]

59. Reagan was from Illinois

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

76. I think the original poster was trying to say the last DEM president from

the North was JFK. Not sure though, the post was rather muddled.

[Adelante]

67. For you who knows how to disable your profile

with 55 posts under your belt. Take your bigotry with you when you go. :hi:

[Dhampir Kampf]

70. 'Yankees kicked ass'? Haha.

This post, right HERE, is why Democrats can't get any southern votes. Attack the one thing that a people pride themselves in, and that's a sure push away.


You really think that the 'Yankees' kicked the South's ass?

Here's a few rounded off stats for you:

The Union
Battle deaths: 110,070
Disease, etc.: 250,152
Total 360,222
Confederates
Battle deaths: 94,000
Disease, etc.: 164,000
Total 258,000


Wait a minute, the south actually killed more than the North did themselves?

Also consider these numbers:
The Union armies had from 2,500,000 to 2,750,000 men. The Confederate army was from 750,000 to 1,250,000.

Do you think the south ever had a chance against that big of a army? However, the south had an advantage with their leadership, and their determination for what they believed in.

Why do you think Lincoln had to switch between so many Generals? McClellan wasn't exactly a, 'Eisenhower', of his age. He was always afraid to attack, fearing that the South had more men in reserves, ready to pounce and destroy his army. It's amazing that the North did anything while he was the Maj. General of the Union. Anyway. South pwned until 1863, that's when it went down hill for them. Once Lee decided to go into attack mode, he was doomed for failure.


The hate for the north, didn't directly derive from the fact that they lost, it was what happened AFTER the war, that set the tone for the past century and a half. The south WAS punished, people who were innocent, (the soldiers, who were following orders, just like our soldiers in Iraq) shouldn't have been.

Should the south had seceded for not getting their way? (Lincoln won the election without one single southern electoral vote) No, they shouldn't have. But, it happened.

Remember, the North were the invaders in this war, not the South.


Now, back on topic. One president who most of us here would hold highly, is Clinton. Was Arkansas not a confederate state? You people are generalizing the entire south, to that of 100% bush lovers.

Prime example, Mark Warner, and newly elected Tim Kaine, are both Democrats, yet they were elected back to back in Virginia.

If you expect to get the votes of these AMERICANS, yes they're southerners, and they have different opinions, but they are Americans, then you can't throw a blunt attack like this to them. Saying that it's 100% their fault that this happened.

The Civil war is over. It needs to stop being used on all sides of arguments. (Whether it be civil rights, republican, democrat, etc.)



Another thing to remember, Lincoln was a republican....Did I just hear you praise a Republican? ;)

The south and anti-war people in the North(copperheads, were the democrats). Republicans were the pro war, and backed the war beginning, not Democrats. It's the same as today, Democrats tend to be anti-war, as repubs, are usually pro-war.

Only thing that has changed, is now the north is more democrat, and the south is more republican. Go figure right?

Anyway, I know that this was NOT well planned, and written, but I had to throw it together before work. Sorry for all of the grammatical errors.

[mitchum]

81. I hate the party's insistence on running southern Democrats for the...

presidency. That's why we always get moderates like Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. Boy Howdy!

[Dhampir Kampf]

92. Funny how they both won an election.

[mitchum]

94. Well, so did Ronald Reagan (for what it's worth)...

apparently, you missed my point. Southern Democrat ALWAYS means MODERATE Democrat. While that is certainly better than a republican, I am sick of giving my heart, time, and money to the lesser of two evils. No more.

[ruggerson]

72. You voted for Kerry, eh?

And I just saw a pig with a free republic banner fly by my window.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

79. you know this OP may be right...

If we start the Civil War with all 49 against DC will we finally get reasonable representation?

[mtnsnake]

78. So what are you saying? That we should turn conservative & join rank?

"And I feel that you will never see anybody elected from the north for a long, long time unless they are very conservative and think like the south. So, I think northern presidents is out of the question."

Oh gimme a break. You won't be saying that after Obama is president someday, followed by a string of Democratic presidents, one after the other, from different sections of the country.

"Although I'm on your side and think much like you"

haha, you sure could've fooled me!

Fuck the Repbublicans no matter what section of the country they have a stranglehold on....north, south, east, west, left of center, outer space, wherever.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

83. If that's correct Mt.snake

You blue-staters better help me figure out how to switch more red states because we have a judge down here in Bama with his sites set on the White House. There's a gold star in it for anyone who can guess his name.

[Blue_Roses]

86. Moore?

Is it Moore and if so, he doesn't have a chance in hell.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

87. He's got to win as gov. here first

I may vote for him in the primary because he so unifies opposition... I'd rather see Siegelman go against him, not the incumbent repuke Riley.., The nazis here are trying to change election laws to keep us dems from pulling that little stunt.

[Blue_Roses]

100. does that mean I get the gold star?

As for Moore having a shot in hell at the presidency he can dream on...

[quaoar]

101. I think they've got Siegelman this time

His trial should be over before the primary, too.

Our big problem is whether Lucy can be the street fighter she will need to be to win this. She doesn't strike me as one. OTOH, Riley is looking a lot better lately, talking about a tax cut. That record state surplus sure did come at a convenient time for him, didn't it? Roy Moore is probably shitting a blue streak right about now, wishing he had taken the Constitution Party up on their offer to run for president in 04.

[Blue_Roses]

85. these southern threads are really quite tiring

but hey, what the hell, it's a slow news day and I'll bite--since I've been born and raised and STILL live in the south.

It amazes me how people who don't live in the south think they know southerners. While there are quite a few Bush supporters, evangelical Christians, and just overall dumb asses, not everyone agrees with the republican agenda. It always seems that we are generalized in this one category--Bush supporters. How far from the truth this is.

Not only did we have record turnout in the last election, but we had more people vote for a Democratic candidate than in 2000. The states are peppered with Democrats and many progressives. Times have truly changed since the "south did it" and we now live with running hot water. Also, I have never "hated" the north. Actually to the contrary. I hate the heat here in the summers and I would welcome a move to the "north."

Now I better go, my outhouse is calling me.

:eyes:

[Dhampir Kampf]

93. My mom's side is in Minnesota...

The Humidity, and the heat, put the south to shame.

[Blue_Roses]

102. well, let's just say

I doubt that, but just in case, she needs to come here in August. Then we'll see who puts who to shame.

[HeatherDawn]

88. Shame on you BILL53

Wow I can't believe you posted this BILL53. I was born in Texas and raised in Mississippi and I can assure you that the southern states are not involved in some kind of conspiracy to take over the country.
The south is a great place and the "Republican" voters are being guided by either their religous views or their pride in their land and their country, which is what all of those songs you mention are about. You don't know the south and that's a shame because it has produced alot of democrats like me and my family. And the food there is awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

114. I agree about the food

Oh gosh. I love the southern food. *sigh* I love BBQ and other meats such as that. And yes we've had some great democrats from the south. Don't forget we ruled most of the 20th century and we will rule again if we keep fighting.

[FreedomAngel82]

107. Lyndon Johnson gave the reason

When he signed the 1965 voting rights act he said "We're (democrats) going to lose the south for a long time." He knew but he still did the right thing. But Al Gore won in 2000 and he's a southern democrat who has progressed over the years.

[Vektor]

115. Hey, that reminds me!

I have been meaning to download "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" from iTunes.

This Massachusetts born Yankee LOVES that song.

Downloading right now...

[AlienGirl]

116. Locking

This is flamebait...