Why didn't the Democrats on this Committee get up and walk out

[fooj]

when Spincter refused to question Gonzales under oath? Why didn't they just get the hell up and WALK OUT?

This entire hearing is a RUSE! IMO, the Senators validate its credibility by participating in this bullshit. Take a fucking stand and walk out! Call press conferences. Do whatever is necessary! How long are we going to sit back and allow these rat bastards to destroy the very principles and values that this nation was founded upon?

Bottom line---This doesn't just violate Federal Law. It violates the US Constitution. It is a FELONY! Christ. What the hell is it going to take?

Peace.

[Trevelyan]

1. You are right---Look up Band of Brothers for Replacements for DINOS

DU Front Page for petition to support Murtha and Band of Brothers protest march on DC Feb. 8 against the swiftboating of Murtha and other decorated veterans by the chickenhawks.

[fooj]

2. Will do.

Peace.

[blm]

3. Repubs would've HALTED PROCEEDINGS if Reno pulled a stunt like that

They would have hollered so the press covered it as the story of the day.

Dems missed an opportunity to prove to the country that Bush is so corrupt his Attorney General refuses to be sworn in under oath.

[fooj]

6. That's how I see it.

So...why do we support these lame assholes?

Peace.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. This is more than a mere felony

I assert that willful violations of the US Constitution by federal officers sworn to uphold and defend it amounts to "adhering to (our) enemies, giving them aid and comfort", which is the definition of treason (Article III, section 3.)

[John Q. Citizen]

5. Kerry and Gore and many others have told us what it will take.

It will take Americans to do this.

Here's my idea. it's in a very rough draft stage and it rambles and repeats, but I want to send it out there.

Can you give me some feedback? (Not on the form but on the idea)

*******************************************************
Here's an idea I got that arose from the grassroots filibuster attempt. I saw the power of the fusion between on-line communications, talk-radio, LTTE, and various other forms of non- big Corporate Media organizing that resulted in a majority of 24 Demo Senators voting against cloture on Alito. We defined the debate and it was dump Alito at all costs. The mention of filibuster was in the corporate media air for about three days at least. So I started thinking about what if we did a larger, longer, better integrated and well thought out effort to engage the American people in their political future?

Strategy

We need an umbrella issue that encompasses all the fascism, brutality, and failure of the bush vision. I believe that issue is Impeachment. Every single issue that is important to people in this country can be summed up by that word. From health care, to Katrina, from Abramoff to Spying, from 9/11 to no child left behind from Energy Policy to Elections policy from Baghdad to the Environment and back we have seen the same lying, cheating, stealing, ideologically driven disaster of leadership. There are too many issues and instances to list. But I believe we should make Impeachment the catch-all repository for all the evil and stupidity of the bush administration. After all, Impeachment is the only remedy we have to correct the quickening downward spiral.

So how do we get impeachment? Simply put, we don’t, at least until we get a congress that will seriously investigate and prosecute criminal activity in the White House. Which is maybe after the mid-terms.

This makes impeachment the perfect issue and the perfect campaign. No matter how many people call and write they can’t do what the people ask. When it gets pointed out that we are "picking on the Republicans" we agree, and expand our targets to the Democrats, who then (most of them I reckon) make statements in support of Impeachment. (or at least open and fair investigations, or call for a special prosecutor.).

So we build Impeachment into a campaign issue, where Congress critters are being asked by their TV local news guys and gals, "How do you stand on the Impeachment issue? Why not appoint a special prosecutor?"

After 10 days to 2 weeks days of this, we switch gears and start to seriously push for a national mobilization. (much of it previously organized if not publicly announced) Do we go for record numbers marching in DC and SF? Do we go for town-hall meetings across the country? No!

We do a National Accountability Day(s)

We, the grassroots, grow some NADs (get it?)

"National Accountability Day."

We could do a National Accountability lobby Day (actually 3 days, like Wed. Thrus. Friday) the week or so after graduation. It would take about a minimum of 25,000 people participating nationwide. While that’s a formidable number, it’s small compared to the # who have shown up at marches, for instance. And the relatively local nature of going to your US Senator’s or US Congressman’s field office makes for easier participation by a lot more people.

We line up at least one hundred people in front of five Republican US senate or congressional offices in each state, and people go in and lobby the staffers, all day long, preferably alone or in pairs.

Every citizen lobbyist would take 2 messages to their representative. One would be of their choosing or their coalition groups choosing, and the other would be impeachment. We ask if the Rep will support impeachment. We target Repos and bush loving Dems Reps (on a mid term targeted basis) for our lobby day targets , and make sure local press covers the events (our bigger target) and then National Media. Our biggest target.

Turning out 100+ citizen lobbyists would require a loose coalition of lefty interest groups both local and national to help turn out the crowd. Music, street theater and food to entertain the waiting citizens would help insure larger turnouts and happy, yet determined, people for good media as well as encouraging citizen walk-ins.

We could have bloggers writing while waiting in line, some celebrity lobbyists, celebrity entertainment, local entertainment, video cams of the crowd , talk radio hosts broadcasting from small town America.

The most daunting part. It would require 300 organizers (5 per 5 state field offices + one state wide organizer = 6 people a state x 50 states) as well as a healthy sprinkling of other local support but it would be a great run up to the mid terms in terms of organizing, networking, energizing people, and giving people a good reason to vote in a dem congress, ie impeachment ie everything that’s wrong. We could time it for after school is out would facilitate better weather in many places for standing in line. Maybe we could get the Wellstone Activist School to put out a call to past graduates, maybe the Dems

(4 people an hour (15 minutes per lobbyists per office would be only 32 people in eight hours per office) we could have bloggers writing while waiting in line, some celebrity lobbyists, celebrity entertainment, local entertainment, video cams of the crowd , talk radio hosts broadcasting from small town America.

Folks at home could be writing the congress critters before and during this action asking them to be at an office to meet with people.

Our Dem leaders like Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, and our lefty progressive leaders like Sheehan and many others have made the point that it’s going to take American citizens getting involved to create a change. This is an opportunity to offer a safe, fun, and effective way for Americans to exert political will.



********************************************************************************
I think a sustained action (six weeks?) culminating in a successful

Accountability Day " action would get us back the house. The Repos couldn't possibly deliver on impeachment, for obvious political reasons, so that's what we need to ask them for, or "Why not."

It focuses and forces the issues inherent in impeachment on the House and Senate and takes the direct focus off bush while keeping the heat on him. Impeachment is a House and Senate issue, and starts in the House. We need to be using the House against bush and visa versa.

In some large demonstrations in the US, claims of numerical strength of half a million marchers nationwide are routinely used, debated, debunked, disputed, etc. If we could turn out ½ a million lobbyists at their Reps offices, we would get 1149 people average for all 435 congress men and women. And those numbers could be verified by the Reps staff. It’s obvious we wouldn’t have to target all the Dems so our numbers in a lot of Repo districts should be substantial even in a median case turnout.

This strategy is an offensive strategy designed to crowd out the bullshit with our 5000lb gorilla.

We should anticipate a similar attempt by our opponent activists on the other side. However, if their attempts to rally support ala Cindy Sheehann are an indication, we may be pretty well off in terms of an actual mobilization. The right does have excellent access to the corporate media, however, and we need to figure out effective strategies to neutralize that advantage.

We should also anticipate the reactions (and the final "talking points") of the Repos in Congress and be prepared to deal with them in a quick and clear manner.

By planning ahead we can better utilize "timing" to our advantage. If for some salient reason it became apparent that waiting a week or two or starting a week earlier was advantageous we could do that if we got organized behind a clear strategy and plan of action and tactics ahead of time.

The Dem candidates can talk about health care to education, to fixing Iraq, to corruption, but the 5000 lb gorilla in the living room is Impeachment.

Why won't the Republicans apply the rule of law? Why won't they Impeach when everybody knows bush is lying, cheating, and stealing? I think we should fight to get an answer. Inquiring minds want to know.

We are willing to confront the Democratic Senators about the need to block Alito from the Supreme Court, (an action I agreed with and worked for) but as of yet we seem unwilling to confront the Republicans on the need to impeach.

I think it would really help the Democrats, it would get the Republicans talking about "why not to impeach" (our strategy) and put Repos totally on the defensive. If we did our jobs the Republicans will be talking about Impeachment instead of health care or education, etc.

At least that's my take on the possible political opportunities available to grassroots net organizing. With a long term campaign and a chance to organize net/grassroots communication channels to be really effective, I bet we could cause quite a buzz. I would be particularly interested in seeing a nationwide activist blitz on Impeachment starting on the net/talk radio/LTTE and then moving to an electronic communication blitz of Repos (ala Alito) and then moving to people on the streets standing in long colorful lines of Americans in their towns waiting to personally talk to their Reps staff. We could say, "Where's the Rep?" he talked with Abramoff but he won't talk to us. We can speak with Channel 2 news about issue x and impeachment vis a vis our Republican scofflaw. We use the time of a Repo staffer up for three days. People could do wireless audio and video via cell phones while lobbying there Repo Rep.

This would be an excellent way to engage a wide spectrum of people on the left into a meaningful collective action. We'd get greens in line, union folks in line, soccer moms in line, seniors in line, Dems in line, students in line, babies in line, vets in line, borderline anarchists in line, mmj activists in line, etc. It could be a media feast.

We could pull it off with only 25000 people on the streets (500 people per state) but my bet is if we really did a bang up job we'd be able to muster a lot more than that, especially in some places. Get the Unions in CA on board? They could talk a union issue and Impeachment.

Any feedback on strategy / tactics/ Plan?? Got any excellent contacts in the blogging/Lefty/Demo interest groups community?/Know any deep pockets looking to make happen a worthy endeavor?
*****************************************************************

[fooj]

7. Wow. You've put alot of thought into this. Thanks for that.

The only concern I have regarding this plan is that we can't guarantee a free and fair election. Period. They have been working day and night to slowly erode all of our voting rights. How can we change things if we can't get in?

Peace.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. Well that we can't guarantee a free and fair election

would seem to then preclude any and all political activity of any sort, even posting to DU :)

However, if we could pull off this defining of the debate in mid to late spring, then we woould have a body of activists (with growing organizational skills) to attempt to inforce the fairness and freeness of our elections in November.

[leftstreet]

9. Have you started threads with this?

If you have, I've missed them.

This is great stuff!

[John Q. Citizen]

13. Thanks for your praise. I'd like to clean it up and make it a little more

concise and organized before I start a thread on it. Hopefully in the next day or two I'll get 'er done.

[radio4progressives]

11. The Grassroots already have the Nads.. It's the people in Congress

who reject the notion of impeachment at any time, before or after elections.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. If we have the NADs then let's take the fight to their offices and to

the national debate level.

[radio4progressives]

30. We have been..

it's falling on deaf ears, apart from storming the castles what the hell else do we have to do? repeat the Veto Alito campaign on a 24/7/365 basis?

how many on the east coast willing to lead the effort? and how many can provide a support base, hospitality and all the rest for west coasters willing to join the effort in the flesh, feet on the ground?

[John Q. Citizen]

39. I have kids in school , but I could sure go down to my

Congressman's office in Missoula MT.

It's twenty minutes away. a lot cheaper and doable than going to the east coast. Since going to the east Coast wasn't part of my proposal, I'm not sure if you read it and understand it.

However, if I showed up to my Congressman's office in Missoula MT.
on the same day as 100 others and we waited in a long line to talk to his staffers, it would make the local papers and the local evening news.

If we did the same thing across the country (as in act locally think nationally) it would make the local papers and the evenong news in every state as well as the Natiopnal news I bet.

Or I could just forget about it, throw up my hands, blame the Republicans the Democrats, the Greens and the Libertarians

The Aloto campaign was thrown together and lasted about what, eight days? Maybe 10? Was that too much strain on you?

[radio4progressives]

63. No, i like your proposal..

it makes sense. can it be organized right here? if so, i'm right there with you.

[justabob]

24. On engaging a wide spectrum of people

I know we are "lefties" but the issues facing the country are absolutely non-partisan. There are a lot of old-school conservatives who see what we are seeing very clearly, and are just as alarmed. I would suggest not taking a party line on any of this stuff, and I am not sure impeachment is the right frame... Someone (sorry I can't remember who) posted roughly - the constitution... you are with it or you are against it. That frame is very direct and clear. This country is facing a crisis - the likes of which have never been seen in this country. If political affiliation is going to keep people divided we (the People who see it so clearly) will NOT win, and America as we knew it will cease to be. (Hyperbole? maybe, but are we ready to face the consequences if it is not hyperbole?)

[wordpix2]

32. most people not ready for impeachment, don't know what Constitution says

However, they are getting interested between the NSA hearing, Plame outing, fraudulent reasons for war, Libby (maybe Rove)indictment, Repug corruption/Abramoff, huge debt and deficit while * cuts taxes for rich--- it's all seeping into their conscience.

I do believe Dems should run against repubs on the above with "throw the bums out" as the slogan and theme. With a Demo majority in Congress and some alarmed Repubs on our side, we can then impeach in '07.

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Well good, then most people won't be disappointed when the

Republicans fail to impeach.

How many Americans do you believe are following the NSA hearings? Maybe 1 or 2 per cent of the voting age population? If that many?

I suppose we can just sit back and hope the Dems pick up enough seats to bring about a change. If they don't we can always blame them for not doing enough.


However, I distictly remember Al Gore saying it was going to take a movement of Americans willing to fight to change things. That didn't sound to me like he was saying wait for the elections and let hope things get better.

I distictly remember John Kerry calling on Americans to get involved with the fight for change. That doesn't remind me of saying please vote Democratic.

Cindy says people need to get into the streets and demand change. Well I believe her.

[American liberal]

I'm with you, John Q.

We need to take action at the local levels, using talking points that will have national implications. And grassroots (with a strong presence on the Internet while it's still free) is the only method left to us. I heard Mr. Gore's speech on MLK Day, and I am ready to take action! Count me in, 110%! I'm in Chicago and more than ready and willing to help organize the Midwest arm of the Impeachment campaign.

Once you post your thread, please let's schedule a phone conference to begin the dialogue. My brother has leads on reasonably priced phone conferencing services, which I'd be more than happy to look into. I was very active organizing during the first Gulf war, but have been out of the fray for quite sometime. I still have contacts in this area that I am confident would jump on board in a heartbeat. It's time to start building coalitions to galvanize around one issue. The more I think about it, the more brilliant I think your idea is.

Once the core organizers have hashed out an agenda, we can begin to delegate the work and discuss logistics. I think this is a first-rate idea! I want my country back!

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Then all the congress people just affirm they are for the constitution

that's the end of it, right? And we win?

We must make demands on power, and clear demands or we won't get jack.

If we were to succeed at a lobby day, anyone could go and lobby. It's a free sidewalk and the congressional offices are open to any constituents.

Name a non-partisan issue facing the country today. Any one. I can't come up with one.

There are a very few Republicans who have made a little noise about the usurption of executive power. Meanwhile, the Republican majority let Mr. Attorney general testify without being under oath. So everything he said was make-believe. That wasn't non-partisan.

[justabob]

44. Let me clarify

Non partisan was a poor choice of words, but it was the closest I could get. The death of the Constitution effects everyone regardless of party (speaking now about everyday Americans - joe sixpack). If you talk impeachment, it is a big leap for most people and will meet more resistance than the more generic trying to uphold the Constitution. I don't mean to say that impeachment is off the table, but that shouldn't be the cornerstone of the strategy. Without the Constitution, impeachment can't happen. Anyway, that is just my two cents. I think your idea is good, I just think you will reach more people with a slight adjustment/refinement.

[John Q. Citizen]

46. Trying to uphold the constitution is something I know we could get

every Rep in the country to sign on to. However, it won't bring about any change or further our struggle.

Impeachment on the other hand is a great issue because not more than a couple of Repos (at most) will back impeachment.

Think about the impact the right wing had on the choice debate by turning out people to clinics demanding the outlawing of choice.

Do you believe the organizers expected the Dems in power would just flip and make choice illegal? Of course not. The point was to win elections by controling the terms of the debate.

We can make great arguments about any issue we want, but until we can control the terms of the debate, it won't matter at all.

[justabob]

47. I understand

Everything I said was about recruiting more everyday people to go do the lobbying, not the reps themselves, sorry I didn't make that clear. I get what you are saying about controlling the debate. I was talking about another step or layer of the strategy you outlined.

[John Q. Citizen]

53. Lobbying turnout would be very important, and there are lots of

people who could help out a lot to make that happen who still would be uncomfortable lobbying their Rep. on any issue. But there are also a lot of people who would be happy to have an event to attend to lobby on both issue x and impeachment.

Turnout is important, but we don't have to turn out more than a minimum of 25,000 people nationwide to make this happen. But the more the better.

I return to the choice issue. The Anti-choice numbers who turned out to do clinic disruption/picketing were relatively small, 40 here, twenty there, maybe a couple of hundred in some cases (with the rare exception of national mobilizations on DC.)

Another example of a very small group controlling the terms of the Debate was Act-Up, the AIDS activists in the 80's and 90's. They were small but mighty, and they were organized. They made a huge impact with tens of people showing up for their actions.

So the idea that change occurs only when a massive majority all suddenly wake up one morning and takes to the streets (or whatever) is a myth. A very small group with a good plan and good organization is usually behind that kind of mass awakening. It is not spontaneous, it's nurtured and prodded and grown from a little seed.

I believe our Congress people must impeach to defend our constitution. The constitution itself contains no other remedy to executive power lust. And until we place this demand on the powers that be, they don't even have to think about it, and neither does anyone else.

Our job is to make them think about it. Our job is to control the terms of the debate. This is what the grassroots can legally do.

[leftstreet]

8. Because they have A Better Way n/t

[Greyhound]

15. Joke, right? If so...

:rofl:
if not...

[leftstreet]

21. ...

:rofl:

[rucky]

51. n/t is their "better way"?

Project X is still on, right?

[leftstreet]

58. The birds are already swimming

:rofl:

[radio4progressives]

10. Bingo!

Another Dog and Pony charade that the Dems participate in.

it's over folks... it's over.

our constitution has been sold down the river, our democracy has crumbled.

when our own party leaders don't fight back (by any means necessary)they are participating in the demise of our republic.

the 2006 elections are going to be just as much of joke as all of this, unless they turn this around RIGHT NOW and REALLY start fighting back. which may include shutting Congress down, if necessary.

[Dr Fate]

16. Because being agressive & creative does not poll well with moderates

Get WITH IT you RADICALS.

Don't you know that the latest polls say that Americans want us to WORK WITH the liars & criminals???

WALK OUT? Sheesh- dont you realize that the media would have SPUN IT??? Is that what you want- for the media to say mean things about Democrats???

WE ARE NOT IN POWER-STOP SAYING WE SHOULD FIGHT- WE ARE NOT IN POWER. Next all you people will want DEMS to filibuster other judges who also lie.

Let the adults keep doing what ever it is that they are doing-they are NOT IN POWER, so stop asking them to do things.

[sendero]

17. Besides we...

... kept our powder dry for this pressing issue. Now we have to keep it dry for the next one.

I've just about given up. We have nobody to lead us.

[Dr Fate]

18. We are not in power and we would have lost anyway.

It's the Republican owned media's job to highlight the fact that Gonzales is a liar- go blame them.

Democrats have enough to do without entertaining every whim of you Micheal Moore bloggers.

Americans dont want some sqaubble about who is under oath and who is not- they want...(excuse me while I check the polls)....

WALK OUT???- sheesh- how rude and impolite. We have to show some decorum so they will look like jerks next time they swift-boat us.

[fooj]

19. You are right. We desperately need a leader.

Peace.

[wordpix2]

33. Russ Feingold!

[justabob]

22. Don't wait for someone else

If we sit around waiting for a white knight/superman type person, nothing will EVER happen. People are going to have to take matters into their own hands. The situation we find ourselves in can not and will not go away unless people - everyday joes/janes - demand it, and more than that, take some kind of action - up thread someone posted ideas for sustained action (on edit: post #5). It is going to take more than a few thousand people at DU - we here are just the canaries in the coal mine. The Democratic Party isn't going to save us. Howard Dean isn't going to save us. Hero X and/or Hero Y may emerge once a recognizable movement starts, but it is up to us to get it going.

[sendero]

23. Uh...

...with all due respect just what is it you think I should do? Launch my own investigation? Appoint a special prosecutor? Hold congressional hearings?

We elect representatives to do these things, somehow, the ones we have are beyond lame.

Sure, we can try to elect better ones, but really, if they don't step up and do something soon it will be too late to matter.

[justabob]

26. Never mind then... keep waiting

or just throw in the towel....

I found myself without a car several years ago and I learned real quick that if I had to wait on other people to take me places I was never going to get anywhere. That lesson has stayed with me though it has taken many forms, and I believe it is applicable to the mess we find ourselves in. If you disagree, so be it. I'm not trying to force my opinions down anyone's throat. I don't have any answers, I am no activist like some here are. I am a dirt poor nobody with no special skills or magic wand. I have been hearing the same things over and over and over again.... So and So will save us. If only Person X would do this, everything will be ok.... I am trying to suggest that people try to think differently about this stuff is all.

[sendero]

27. What I'm suffering..

.... is the slow but ever-more-certain realization that our party is nothing less than complicit in the descent into the abyss this country is headed into.

And that leaves me with few options. One of them actually is to simply withdraw from the entire process, as the majority of Americans did long ago.

[wordpix2]

35. some Dems complicit b/c they're big into the Incumbent Party--they think

they ought to be in Congress forever and are too cozy with big contributors---don't want to rock the boat.

Throw these bums out---but there must be a better choice.

[justabob]

43. I share that view

which is a large part of the reason I say that a leader is not what we need. A leader will arise, and I doubt that hero will be a known politico. I suffer as well... I am not going to put a big happy face on and say its not that bad. Nor am I going to blow sunshine up your ass about the democratic party and what they may or may not do. (I have a feeling all that dry powder is going to blow the party to bits) I really do get it about what you are saying. I don't have many options either. What is happening now goes beyond politics, it is about the survival of our way of life. (please, please don't tell me I am exagerating the situation.... I would love to be wrong, but I can't risk not looking at the consequences if I am right) To me saving our Constitution is the single most important thing. We can go back to standard partisan politics later.

I have spent a great deal of time thinking about it and the only thing I have come up with that is even remotely possible is tearing down the false barriers put up by the media and political parties and other powers-that-be. We are so absorbed in this idea that without the media we can't get the word out, that if the corporate media was on our 'side' it would all be better. 'News' as a portion of ratings is very low.... papers all over the country are dying a slow death... the RW talk radio has even been taking a hit lately from what I understand. My theory is that a concerted effort to engage as many people as possible about things that have, will, or could possibly impact their lives and go from there. People are starting to see the ugliness under the nice words and they are scared.

Many only know something is terribly wrong, but can't figure out why or are doubting themselves and their perceptions because "this is america". There are untold millions out there suffering the pain of the current policies, but they are also suffering because the news tells them that "everything is ok, don't worry" and that message doesnt match what they are experiencing in reality. many of the people in that category can be reached, but not with partisan language. What happens next I do not know, but I do know that despotism fails when people are not segregated into neat little categories (us/them, liberal/conservative, black/white/brown, Kerry/Clark etc) and when a large enough group of people say they aren't going to take it any more. (please don't tell me that is why we need to 'build the party')

The only other thing I have thought of is to go sort of retro.... do what every resistance group I have ever read about did. Print flyers/newsletters and put them out all over. Bulletin boards, telephone posts, chalk messages, newspaper racks, coffee shops.... It is not "main stream" but I think ANYthing, even cryptic messages, make people think and make people talk, and CAN move as fast as any mass media.

So sorry for the long non-answer.... this is just where I am now.

ps my asides are not aimed at you, sendero

[John_H]

38. Since when are direct citizen action and

demanding our people in the limelight to their jobs mutually exclusive? Nobody said "let Democratic Judiciary Committe members do the work while i watch Scating with the Stars. We'll join you in your activism. how 'bout you join us writing letters to tell them to stop engaging in rarified legal depates with the AG, and start asking him to explain how this crime happened.

[lyonn]

62. We have many Dem. politicians that seem to get it

They need to be heard. We here on this site know them and cheer each time they are forceful and to the point. It's not like we don't have Dems that know what is going on, they just seemed to get silenced by, now, that is the question. Why are they silenced. Dean got silenced. Clark was too unknown to many and worried about his military background.

The repubs play the media, no brainer. We don't have them in our pocket. The Dean Scream was such a glaring example of how the Repubs and media ruined his chances. There was background noises that the media didn't use when they were having so much fun destroying him. What I'm saying is, we much learn to work the system. So many here already know this but this is truly the bottom line in an election.

[Dr Fate]

28. Why dont you go on Wolf Blitzer and call Gonzales a "liar."

And then when Wolf raises his eyeborw and challenges you, you say "I know he is lying, because he refused to go under oath- why would he refuse to go under oath unless he planned on lying?"

Somthing like that- now you get on that and let us know how it turned out.

[sendero]

29. I would be Wolf's wost nightmare..

... I don't think he's gonna let me on.

In addition to that, I'd insist that Bush must be spying on political enemies, because there is no other plausible explanation for his refusal to get FISA warrants, which couldn't be easier to get.

[wordpix2]

34. you are right---we did damn good job against tough odds on the filibuster

I say, don't lose heart, keep going and give them hell.

My pro-Bush high school students are LISTENING to me---getting alarmed about the huge debt they will inherit.

[radio4progressives]

36. be sure to let us radicals know how it all turns out for ya...

and thanks for telling us to shut up, fall in line or please go away, i needed to hear that.

[Dr Fate]

40. Do I really have to put a "sarcasm" thingy on everything?

???

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

48. No, it works better without it. n/t

[Virginia Dare]

20. People might think they're angry! EOM

[wordpix2]

37. God forbid anyone should get angry at what BushCo's doing to the nation

[European Socialist]

25. They were afraid Specter might take his ball and go home.

[John_H]

31. You guys are Judo Chess white belts

Next you're going to suggest that they should have done something dumb like refuse to play the republican game of "we say it's legal, you say it's not, but reasonable people can disagree since it's such a close call" strategy instead of displaying their command of FISA by acting like Gonzolez' arguments were even worthy of debate. Or maybe you would have been happy if they did something really unsophistiocated like saying, "We're not going to argue about with you about the legality of this crime because it's obviously illegal by any definition. We're going to ask you who ordered it, how many innocent americans' rights were violated, and when you are going to stop."

Way back in 2004 I predicted that if the people who ran Kerry's campaign tranfered to senior strategy and message poitions in the the DNC and the congress that the GOP would hand us many significant political defeats and that many incidents of classic GOP circularfiringsquadism would be mossed. I was wrong. These people have, in fact, parlayed their good work for john Kerry into "rapid response" and "senior advisor and strategist" positions, and I can't name more than 20 or 30--OK more than 50--examples in which they have not proven that a loosely coordinated, consultant/pollster driven, largely passive strategy is superior to the failed Clinton strategy of fighting like you're fighting a bunch of well organized and well funded thugs. We let them have Alito, and we're going to let them have their taping. i can't believe you people can't undertand how this is going to translate into Democratic votes in November.

Me, i'm not worrying a bit, especially since i know that these very same strategists and consultants who have served us so well since 2000, will soon be spreading out accross America's hearland running the campaighns to tak eback the house and senate.

[blm]

59. For the last 4 years Clinton has gotten on TV and usually proclaims how he

supports Bush and that Bush is doing what he can with the information he has.

Clinton groomed the entire Dem infrastructure that was in place since 1994, and they were schooled in DEFENDING CLINTON - they were abysmal and lacking knowledge when talking about any other Democratic candidate.

Hopefully, Dean will be changing THAT aspect of the DNC.

[Cocoa]

45. because they judged it would be better to stay

you might disagree...

[Dr Fate]

49. Forgive us if we doubt their judgment from time to time.

We have 3 lost elections cycles where we were told to trust the strategic judgment of various Democrats. The whole "calm down and let the adults handle this in a measured way" thing has not shown results.

I think a walk-out would have forced the media to give more coverage to the fact that they refused to go under oath- as it is, I'll bet the media will mostly gloss over that fact.

I may be worong- maybe all the DEMs will be on TV shows tomorrow asking "what is he hiding" and calling the hearings a "sham." Then they will do it the next day and the next day. That would be good too.

[Cocoa]

50. maybe staging scenes would cause them to win

I tend to doubt it, I think it would do the opposite, I think they'd lose even more.

And the dems did vigorously protest Gonzales not being sworn, and they've protested other things.

And if the dems did walk out, they would continue to be criticized, no doubt about it. And the walkout would be utterly forgotten almost immediately by the critics, and people would go back to calling them spineless.

[Dr Fate]

52. They did vigorously protest? So I will see it on the front page tomorrow?

If not, then that means they really did not "vigorously protest" in a way that forces people to pay attention.

We will see- A walk-out would have guranteed front page coverage of it. A "vigorous protest" in other words.

As it is, many news-articles are barely even mentioning the whole "under oath thing"- In the ones I've read so far, its mostly buried as a side note.

I think the "under oath thing" should be the sole focus at this point- its the one point voters understand out of all of this- honesty vs. dishonesty.

[Cocoa]

54. I saw it, they vigorously protested

Fuck the media, I'm the media, I told people at work about Kennedy this morning. What if we all did that?

[Dr Fate]

55. My Aunts and Uncles did not see it. They are your "swing-voters"

Sorry, you and I are the rare breed that watches CSPAN, Air America and DU- everyone else is local papers, local news and maybe- maybe some Yahoo internet news, Fox, CNN or NPR.

I'm glad you told 4 people at work today- but TV headlines could tell 4 million- and Democrats with access to media have the power to make that happen when ever they finally decide to get aggressive and creative with these crooks.

I'll meet you half way and agree that Kerry,Gore, Dean and a few others seem to get it lately.

[Cocoa]

56. tell your aunts and uncles about it

or don't.

[Dr Fate]

57. If it aint on the TV, it didnt happen.

We have email discussions of the days events almost everyday-so I do tell them- only a few of us participate but probably 50 people read them.

Still, plenty of people dont read Cocoa's or Dr Fate's emails or talk to us on the bus.

As I said- I'll meet you half way and give props to Kerry, Gore and Dean as of late.

[formernaderite]

60. Well, they all have a dinner date afterwards

wouldn't want to ruin the mood.

[splat@14]

61. What's God had to say over this? Anyone hear from Robertson?