If you don't help Democrats you are part of the problem

[quinnox]

PERIOD. If you don't vote for and contribute to Democrats, the only feasible "team" that can beat the Republicans, well, then you are helping the evil ones known as todays right wing christian fundamentalist republican party!

That's what it comes down to, no way around it.

[niceypoo]

1. The democrats better start coming up with something coherant....

if they want any more of my money.....

[Dr.Phool]

6. We'll start out by spelling "coherent" correctly!

:evilgrin:

[niceypoo]

8. Spelling police, last resort of the quiver full of wet noodles

[snowbear]

25. So.... "Nicey Poo"

In your opinion, General Wes Clark hasn't been coherent??!!??

Wow.. who do you support anyway... Nader? Bush?

~~ http://securingamerica.com/

[seabeyond]

34. a plan? are you saying dems dont have a plan? that is so media

and rw talking point. it is late i am tired, and i have listed their plan a number of times. must i tell you all the things the dems have suggest, the plans they have laid out, because you are that unaware?

[LittleClarkie]

36. Are you a Dem?

If so, why are you waiting for "them" to come up with something coherent.

YOU come up with something coherent. Be the change you want to see in the party.

If you're not, then nertz to you ;)

[sendero]

45. Yeah..

.... come up with something coherent so they can "dean/hackett" you.

[UrbScotty]

39. So what are you doing about it? (nt)

[MarianJack]

2. I will vote for any D over any r this year...

...and as long as the cheney/bush cadre is in power.

I do, however, expect and demand that the Democrats STOP THE FUCKING APOLOGIZING when they tell the truth.

I know that I beat this theme to at least a coma if not to death, but are ChicaAzul and I the only ones who feel very betrayed when a Democrat does this?

[quinnox]

5. well good

that is at least something.

Some Duers seem to have more antagonism towards Dems than Repubs!

It makes me mad.

[MarianJack]

11. Another Reason to vote for Democrats is...

...that a third party vote is really a thrown away vote 90+% of the time.

We had a fairly good 2 term independent gov up here in Maine, but I often wonder how many in Minnesota felt the day after election day '98 when they realized that they had just elected a professional wrestler? If I recall, much of his vote was from young 20 somethings who voted 1 time because they thought it would be "cool" to vote for the dipstick.

Also, as anyone who watched the 1992 debates could see, ross perot had the advantage of being able to speak with the TOTAL ABANDON of one who knew that he would never have to actually GOVERN.

[sendero]

46. Hey..

... I expect Repubs to be venal, short-sighted snakes in the grass. I don't expect it of Dems, and when I see it, it makes me mad.

Go figure.

[chefgirl]

9. You're not the only one

I feel exactly the same way. There is no way on earth that I could vote for any republican until and unless the entire party is scrubbed clean from top to bottom and some honest, decent republicans run for office. Even then, they would have to running against a really, really bad Democrat.

I get really pissed, though, when I send my money, I talk them up, I find myself believing that maybe, just maybe THIS time, they'll use the testicles the good Lord gave them and actually fight the republicans on some important issue.

It gets hard to keep caring... until you consider the alternative.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one. I've donated a few times this year, and as I said, I couldn't possibly vote for any republican, but I do feel a bit 'bent over'. :shrug:

-chef-

[MarianJack]

12. Brava, chefgirl,...

...and I love your sig line.

[chefgirl]

18. Thanks MarianJack

Love your sig line too! :thumbsup:

-chef-

[tulsakatz]

17. Amen!

No more Democrat apologies allowed!!!

When they apologize it just makes them look like spineless jellyfish!! They need to stop acting like wimps and start debating the issues instead of giving in to every little thing the Republicans ask for!

On one of Bill Maher's shows, he made a good point that Republicans use fake outrage to misdirect the conversation. It had never occured to me before but I think he's right. Republicans use anger to control the topic.........if people think they're really mad, that's what everyone talks about for a few days instead of the issues. A good example of that was when Kerry mentioned Cheney's lesbian daughter in one of the debates. The next few days, all you heard was how outraged the Cheneys were that Kerry mentioned their lesbian daughter.........and Kerry didn't even say anything bad about her!! He simply mentioned her name!!

None of us should allow Republicans to control the topics through their fake outrage!!!

[MarianJack]

20. Fake Outrage...

...and the "You've got to admit that..." line.

[tulsakatz]

21. yeah, that one too!

It's never really bothered me before but hey, I can think for myself! I don't have to admit anything!

[leftstreet]

3. I'm helping a Democrat defeat a DLC Democrat. Does that count?

:shrug:

[quinnox]

7. Yes

To me it doesn't matter who the Dem is as long as they are in office. So whatever Dem you want is fine from my point of view.

I just don't want any seats going to the republicans.

[kster]

4. In all honesty

I don't agree, 100 million dollars can't beat rigged machines, The only thing that can beat the machines is for the Dems to break their silence about the machines.

[radio4progressives]

10. Oh Chill... quinnox, you're wrong ... this is a two way street. .

far too many in the party haven't earned shit and they've helped to tear us apart. the way they're playing politics is feckless, spineless and just plain stupid.

I'm working it from my angle, but don't go off here preaching down to us like the rank and file is the problem. excuse me not only is it extremely offensive, demeaning, insulting, and arrogant, but it's just plain ass backwards.

[quinnox]

13. I'm not preaching

But it is my opinion that what I said is correct, if you disagree, well, fine, that is your right.

[MarianJack]

15. May I Be a Voice in the Middle Here?

As you can see in my earlier response, I definitely don't think that the rank and file is the problem, but I also see the only way to get control back is to put as many "D"'s into office and take as many "r"s out of office as possible.

We are all certainly aware of the many spineless Democrats out there, but when push comes to shove, many do the right thing. Up here in Maine, we have 2 republican senators who give lip service to moderate views, but ultimately vote the cheney/bush line in near lockstep.

The Democrats in congress need to have MUCH more fortitude, but I really don't see much alternative to voting for Democrats if we want to take this country back. Hopefully, the Freshman class in both houses in 1/07 will have a lot of Hackets!

PEACE to all here!

[tulsakatz]

22. Yes!!

I would love to see a lot of 'Hacketts' in power!!

At least it would be nice to know some of the politicians have some actual military experience!!

[MarianJack]

31. Of Course, NOW We Know...

...that the Democratic Leadership in Congress doesn't want any Hacketts!

Disgraceful!

[radio4progressives]

28. Collins is a nitwit, but I had some hope for Snowe and was disappointed

with her noticable absence in the alito filibuster thingy, it seemed like she knew what the deal was but probably karl rove was on her back threatening her. so what about any dems to challenge either one of them in Maine?

[The Magistrate]

30. It Is Necessary, Ma'am

For us to hunt down and retire :modertae" Northeastern Republicans as ruthlessly as the enemy hunted down "moderate" Southern Democrats. They are easy targets, and their removal will operate to strip the enemy of majority status. There are no "good" Republicans: there are only creatures who support the position of the Republican leadership and continue it in majority control. A creature like Snowe or Collins is as responsible for the outrages of Frist or Brownback or Santorem as those trogleytes themselves.

"In war the way to overthrow what is strong is to attack what is weak."

[Sparkly]

35. Good points -- which also illustrate...

... how specific disagreements on particular issues are less important, given where we are, than supporting Democrats to gain back majorities. THEN we can hone and sharpen.

Always love your posts, Sir!! :thumbsup:

[MarianJack]

33. We Have a Woman Named Bright Going For the Nomination,...

...Snowe-job looks strong now, but anything can happen. After all, we don't have Diebold in Maine yet!

In 2002 Collins was leading by 20+% in the polls but only won by about 14%. Still quite a large margin, but way less than predicted. Especially given the $$$ advantage collins had!

I may be overly optimistic, but I think that snowe-job and colons might be able to be had. Tough, but possible with a good candidate.

[zonmoy]

14. Tell you what

if the democratic party proves that they actually have some balls, then I might vote for them.

[rucky]

16. Let's try to limit these types of threads, m'kay?

they accomplish nothing.

Independent voters respond adversely to browbeating.

[madfloridian]

19. vice versa...vice versa.

Moderates don't like it either.

[guidod]

27. You are right...

Like Ed Schultz said, if we don't win in the middle we will never win electins. It's time for people to stop saying that it's either my or the highway.

[inthebrain]

23. Only Sith Lords speak in absolutes!!!

"If you are not with me you are against me."

This is ridiculous. We have three branches of government and two political parties to run them. How insane is that?

How many democracies limit themselves to two political parties?

I vote Green on the local level. Mostly for schoolboards, Mayoral elections and state legislatures. So far they have 212 nationally and have made some gains. I trust them to fix out schools and straighten out our curriculum which offers a highly right wing view of history told through the eyes of statesmen.

On the federal level and gubernataural I tend to lean Dem. As of late that thinking is starting to change as I realize that guarentees very little. Republican follow a hard right wing philosophy and very few break ranks. Democrats have no party line and vote at their whim these days.

Where does that leave me?

They have enough steam to win over the "moderates" and "swing voters" in light of these scandals. They don't really need me that badly anymore as any fuck up right now will be a result of their own doing. What more can I do for a party that I can't push anymore?

I was never fully in bed with it in the first place and only signed up to give them a little spine. I am almost at a point where my work is finished and the party can go on w/o me.

I never bought the line that my vote for Nader cost Gore the election (Despite the fact that I live in MA and Gore won all the votes in this state). Democrats who refused to sign on with the dissenfranchised cost Gore that election. GORE WON!!!!! My job was to see to it that Dems never allow that to happen to them again.

I have many issues relating to social and economic justice that I can fight for more effectivly outside this party. Therefor I feel at home with the Greens. This alliance was temporary and I'm sure the moderate Dems as well as some Liberal/Progressive Dems understand that. You really didnt think us Greenies were going to stick around that long did you?

You've won a few of them over and that's great. I've always known this party as the Centrist/ Center right party that I never felt at home with to begin with. It never had been and never will be a liberal party. It only becomes liberal or acts liberal when outside forces push it.

That's the reason why you had a New Deal and a 1964 Civil Rights act!!!!!

[QC]

37. "Only Sith Lords speak in absolutes"

That statement is itself an absolute.

[ninkasi]

24. I'll vote for Democrats in the elections...

I'll support the more liberal ones during the primaries, however. Once I've done that, I will still vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is. I only hope the ones who are running hear enough of our discontent to start waking up and speaking out, and stop agreeing with the Republicans who tear Dems down. We need to be united as never before.

[guidod]

26. I always vote for progressives,

the democrats will have to earn my donations. QUIT telling me that I'm part of the problem!

[spiderbiter]

29. Not necessarily...

It's a mistake to think that all, or even most, Republicans are fundamentalists--or religious in any particular way.

I know a large bunch of Republicans who also happen to be atheists.

[MrBenchley]

32. Party loyalty is a dirty word to many here....

Who enjoy pissing and moaning about how much they hate hate hate Democrats.

[TankLV]

38. NO. Give me a reason to vote FOR someone.

Anybody but a repuke won't be enought this time around.

I will NEVER vote for a repuke, but I may withold my vote if the dems don't reach out and convince me they want my vote.

I have yet to miss an election or a vote for a dem.

This time around I'm not so sure.

This time around I vote for my PRINCIPALS, not just agains the repukes.

And scolding us doesn't do it - in fact it only leads us tend to sit this one out.

And it will be nobody's fault but the dem candidates they put up if they fail to put up a good candidate.

Luckily, at least locally, I like my dem candidates.

But I reserve my vote on the next Pres. election until there is an actual choice.

These posts do NO help whatsoever.

[UrbScotty]

40. THANK YOU for saying it.

I've wanted to say that for a while, but couldn't find the words to say it.

[IndianaGreen]

41. Tell that to Schumer, Emmanuel, and Reid

They sure have done a good job to fuck up Democrats!

[welshTerrier2]

42. if you call people "part of the problem" ...

when they see you as "part of the problem", you are unlikely to solve the problem ...

see the problem???

that's what it comes down to, no way around it ...

[LWolf]

43. ROFLMAO

:spray:

That's the best parody of illogical political propaganda I've read in quite a while.

It IS parody, right?

[katinmn]

44. And if reproductive freedom is important to you, just vote

for an anti-choice candidate the party has picked.

If you want an immediate withdrawal from Iraq but the party tells you to support a stay-the-course candidate because he or she can win, you should just do it, because the party tells you to.

No. To vote against your principles makes you no better than the Bushbot automatons.