The fall of an empire

[slide to the left]

I have been studying for my Texes test (the Texas teacher cert. exam) and one of the major things that I have realized is that there are certain things that accompany the fall of every empire, from Rome, to Byzantine, to Ming...

The main one is... heavy taxes on the lower class. Sound familiar?

[acmejack]

1. Yes it does!

Welcome to the underground!

on edit: Good luck with the the TEXES

[slide to the left]

5. Thank

Its this coming Sat. Ahhhh! I am thankful that I know the Constitution like the back of my hand and don't have to study for government. (the test covers 5 subjects, world and US history, govt, micro and macro economics, and 1/3 of teachers fail atleast one fo their 2 tests)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

2. good analogy

As a long-time history buff, I totally support your findings... In most of the examples slide sites in the OP tyranny was an integral aspect that kept down revolts while citizens were literally taxed to death.

[fasttense]

3. Since you are studying history, have you noticed how many wars were fought

for markets and jobs? England went to war so they could keep the opium supply running to China. England would have backed the Confederacy (at the beginning of the civil war) if Lincoln hadn't taken a tough stand with them because England's mills depended on cheap southern cotton.

So what is the US doing? Opening our markets to China (and every other nation that can line the pockets of the robber barons) and giving away our manufacturing base to foreign countries. I sometimes wonder if anyone in the current administration has bothered to read any history, besides the historical porn that Libby writes.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

4. while most tyrannical governments use religion as an excuse...

You're right fast-tense... It's GREED that generally powers ALL wars.

[hatrack]

6. Don't forget bread and circuses

Definitely worth including as well. In our case, it's Big Macs and American Idol, but the principle's the same.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

8. what America really wants in REALITY TV

Is the Circus Maximus with blood and guts killing.

BTW "slide to the left" welcome to DU... this is a very good opening post, which I will now vote to the top!

:kick: and recommend

[hatrack]

9. Or to paraphrase my favorite line from "Seven":

"People don't want freedom. People want to eat cheeseburgers, play the Lotto and watch television."

And that was ten years ago.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

10. it was true then and it's true now

Like some movie line "we can't handle he truth!" We don't want to know and we will suffer because of our foolish approaches. It was true 10 years ago and it was true 10,000 years ago, when early human first crawled from dismal caves to form the rudiments of society. Like animals all the average citizen focuses on is sex, food and immediate gratification. If we act like animals how can we expect to ever be treated like people?

[hatrack]

12. It's like we stumbled to the entrance of the cave in Plato's parable . .

But the light hurt our eyes and we turned around and went back inside.

Or, if you want to get really depressed, read "Escape From Freedom" by Erich Fromm.

[slide to the left]

11. popped

you are my first kick, yay!

[enigma000]

13. Last stages of empire: affluence, softness, decadence, extinction

Sit at home, eating greesy take-out, watching reality TV.

[hatrack]

16. Never forget: the root of "decadent" is the verb "to decay" nt

.

[hvn_nbr_2]

17. Civilizations are like bananas. They're sweetest just before they ...

go rotten.

[welshTerrier2]

7. the "sorrows of empire"

there's an incredible book by Chalmers Johnson called "The Sorrows of Empire" ...

here's an excerpt on the warning signs he sees for the collapse of the US empire - an interesting point he makes is that, had anyone predicted the collapse of the Soviet state before it happened, no one would have believed them ... sadly, the same thing will happen here ...

source: http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/global/cj_int/cj_int1.html

I fear that in our own case it has also gone too far. In the last chapter of my book I list four sorrows of empire: perpetual war; loss of the republic (in the sense of the loss of the structure of the republic, which is the main defense of the Bill of Rights); lying and disinformation by the executive branch; and bankruptcy. And I do not see any of these things being reversed just yet.

[Stockholm]

14. Welcome to DU

Good luck with your test!

[Odin2005]

15. The similarities between the US and Rome are absolutely freaky.

[hvn_nbr_2]

18. I'd like to hear more about that.

I've been noticing similarities for years, but would like to know what others observe too. Here are some that I've noticed:

The only superpower of its day.

Rampant militarism, and many, almost continuous wars. (Note that even the "Pax Romana" was a time of a number of external wars; the "peace" was only internal, among regions within the empire.)

Decadence, greed, glorification of violence (particularly in popular entertainment: gladiators, "smash-mouth football" and The Terminator).

A succession of emperors/presidents who were corrupt, incompetent, sons of previous emperors with no qualification to be emperor except family connection, idiots, vile idiots, etc. with the occasional competent one in between. (I find it interesting and appropriate that Clinton liked Marcus Aurelius, one of the competent ones in between.)

So what's on your list?

[hvn_nbr_2]

19. I guess history, fall of Rome, references to Plato are too esoteric.

This thread seems to be sinking.

I've tried to discuss this subject in the past, on DU and elsewhere too. It always gets a quick nod or two and then silence.

[Greyhound]

20. Nobody wants to talk about this, I believe it's because deep down

inside they know what's really happening and know there is nothing they can do about it.