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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:27 PM
Original message
Progressive heart-throb David Sirota on Hackett
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 03:15 PM by iconoclastNYC
My Take on Ohio - http://www.davidsirota.com/

I was actually sad to see that Ohio's Paul Hackett decided not to run for the congressional seat that he almost won last year, and that instead, he is publicly whining about being "forced out" of the Senate race, and saying he's leaving politics. Here's my take on the situation, since I've written about it before.

Beyond who you liked in this potential Democratic primary, one thing is a truism: successful candidates - whoever they are - have to have the tenacity in order to be elected. I'm sure Paul Hackett has tenacity in parts of his life - hell, he went off to combat in Iraq. But its clear he doesn't have political tenacity. And successful candidates, when in office, will likely tell you that's the intangible you need. In fact, every successful candidate is - in one way or another - a walking example of political tenacity.

The need for such tenacity is especially critical in major, high-profile races like a U.S. Senate contest against an entrenched Republican incumbent. Primaries can be good places to see whether candidates have that tenacity - they tend to weed out the candidates who don't. And what we've seen here in Hackett's decision to get out and cry about being supposedly "forced out" is the system work. He clearly didn't have what it took to win. Whatever the reason for that - be it that he couldn't raise the money, he couldn't build the organization, he didn't really have the widespread support people claimed he had, he didn't like people asking him tough questions about his positions, whatever it was - he was weeded out.

In short, the primary process unfolds well before election day. And what we've seen with Hackett is that the primary process worked.

That's a good thing, not because I like Sherrod Brown - but because I want Democrats to win this seat. Someone who bails out in a primary claiming they got "forced out" clearly would not have had the mettle to win this race when the inevitable GOP onslaught came. Further, Hackett's behavior raises serious questions about what he would have been like in the Senate. When adversity struck - would he have picked up his ball and gone home? When he didn't like what the Democratic leadership was doing, would he have voted with Republicans? Thankfully, we won't know.

I'll try to sum up what I'm saying here by referencing the ironclad rule I've written about before: there's no crying in politics. The successful candidates are the ones who don't get forced out - who CAN'T get forced out because they've built up too solid a political organization, a message, and a winning operation in general. These are people who tell those trying to "force them out" that no, they are in. Such stubbornness usually comes because the candidate knows they have the operation that is ready to win. Alternately, the people who scream and whine about being "forced out" are the ones who knew they were going to lose anyway. The nihlistic outrage and conspiracy-theory claims over Hackett's announcement is really pathetic. I mean, come on folks, all contested seats are about one thing: trying to "force" the other guy out, whether through the ballot box or through other forms of political pressure. That's the VERY DEFINITION OF POLITICS - and a political candidate who says they are "upset" about political pressure is like a person being on a baseball team and then getting upset that they are asked to play baseball.

Frankly, I don't think Hackett even believes he was "forced out." Why? Because I think he is a smart guy, and to actually believe you got "forced out" is just too ridiculously stupid a concept for someone like him to actually subscribe to.

My guess is he saw his poor fundraising numbers, saw that he was going to get crushed in the primary, wanted the race handed to him, didn't feel like doing the hard, unglamorous work that candidates have to do in the modern era to be competitive, and got out. Then, to save face, he created this ridiculous martyr story that he got "forced out" - a concept, remember, that doesn't exist in this country. There are no people with bayonets preventing anyone from running or "forcing" candidates out of the race. That's Third World stuff. In this country, when someone says they've been "forced out" of a race, it really means they weren't ready for primetime, they knew it, and were desperate to save face.

Finally, one other word to those who are pissed at Sherrod Brown (for no reason) and using all sorts of uninformed hyperbole saying he's supposedly some insider, aristocratic member of the club. You can tell yourselves that to make yourselves feel better - but saying that kind of thing only makes you look incredibly stupid. A guy who has consistently gone up against Big Money interests on wholly unpopular issues in Washington like trade is not an "insider." The concept that the U.S. Senate - one of the most corrupt and conservative institutions in the modern democratic world - just loves someone with Sherrod Brown's progressive politics and that they "forced out" Brown's opponent because of that is so stupid its hard to believe that people could even think that, much less even imply it or utter it.

The truth is, Hackett and his supporters tried desperately to ramrod this primary into an "outsider" vs. "insider" or "progressive" vs. "conservative" dichotomy. And let's be clear - when that dichotomy exists, I support vigorous primaries to help the progressive win. But this wasn't the case at all in this potential matchup - especially not for Hackett. The outsider-insider dichotomy wasn't there, and on the ideological spectrum Hackett proved totally evasive on even the most basic issues, while Sherrod Brown was the known progressive champion.

That last point is not to be taken lightly. Sherrod Brown is not only a known progressive, but a known progressive who has taken the tough votes when it wasn't the cool thing to do, when there was no blogosphere to support him or cheer him on for doing so, when the DLC ran the party and vilified anyone who actually stood up to power, when challenging the establishment was shunned even by Members of his own party. Brown's record is the kind that is all too rare for candidates for the U.S. Senate. That is why Sherrod Brown is such a formidable candidate. That is why Sherrod Brown was going to crush Hackett in the primary (and why Hackett ultimately got out). And that is why Sherrod Brown is going to be the next U.S. Senator from Ohio.

So my message to Hackett supporters is simple: If you are as serious about your progressive convictions as you say you are - and not just devoted to a cult of personality as you so vehemently claim - then shut up and stop crying. Let's go put a genuine proven progressive in the U.S. Senate.

http://www.davidsirota.com/2006/02/my-take-on-ohio.html
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chancew Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. What do you expect?
He has a Sherrod Brown banner on his website.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I still think the people should've decided
After all it's their repesentation. Just like I wouldn't like them doing that to me here in Tn.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I disagree with this approach
Hackett has expressed support for Brown, after an understandable period of anger. We should try to get past the bitterness.
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chancew Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:46 PM
Original message
Exactly
You have it exactly right. It seems though that the Sherrod Brown supporters want to keep things stirred up and instead of trying to win over Hackett supporters, they are isolating them.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. the bottom line here ...
the bottom line is what exactly was the conduct of the Democratic Party in this race ... we've heard Hackett's allegations but can't know whether they are merely self-serving, as Sirota alleges without offering any facts at all, or whether Hackett was badly undermined by his own party ...

One thing we do know is that Emanuel made public comments saying that Hackett should get out of the race ... Sirota failed to address this point ...

regardless of what actually occurred, i hope all agree that legitimate primary challengers should have a fair chance to compete during the primaries ... if the Party hand-picks candidates and does all it can to blow away legitimate challengers BEFORE THE PRIMARY and before voters are given a real chance to decide, we become a party of political machines rather than a party of grassroots ...

one thing's for sure about this whole incident: it was badly handled by the Democratic Party and it was badly handled by Hackett himself ... we could have done without all this bungling ...
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You don't know what the conduct was.
Nobody does. Dissapointed people are lashing out at our party for things they don't know but they think occured.

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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. "can't know the conduct"
that's exactly what i said in my post ...

and as i said, regardless of what actually happened, the whole incident is a mess and will hurt the Party ...
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The only reason it's a mess is because
Paul Hackett had no class in his withdrawl. He had to blame others for the fact that he was 20 points behind.

He's lost my support.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. i make no defense of Hackett ...
but the Party was not without blame here ... discussions about Hackett getting out of the race should have remained private ...

also, the "20 points behind" is meaningless unless we can know the conduct of the Parties ...
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Well who was talking about it?
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 03:21 PM by iconoclastNYC
Rahm? Yes....i agree....he should have kept his mouth shut. He's a total jerk.....he's one of these DLC operatives that need to be drummed out of the party. But we have to get more progressives into the caucus to get this to happen.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Right... that's going to play really well in Peoria.
short-sighted, power-hungry, arrogant assholes. And the band plays on...
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. What isn't?
And by the way Peoria isn't in Ohio. ;)
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:29 PM
Original message
Blaming the victim is what's not going to be accepted, and the
playing well in Peoria thing is part of a theater quote regarding the likely success of a play. Paraphrasing "It works on Broadway but it won't play in Peoria" just means that the majority won't like it. Peoria is a metaphor for 'middle-amerika'.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
27. The party is the victim.
Because of Hackett disloyalty.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. So go ahead and stick your head in the sand and sit there while they
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 03:42 PM by greyhound1966
blow yet another opportunity. With the unimaginable stupidity of the re:puke: party and it's minions, there is no excuse for the Democratic Party to not take both houses with an unassailable majority, instead we might get the House with a slim majority, maybe, and make it closer in the Senate. This in turn will give the re:puke:s the ability to blame the chaos on the Democrats (see we told you they can't do anything right) in '08.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. HIS disloyalty?
Who do you think you're trying to fool?

Why on earth would Hackett -- or anyone else, for that matter -- be loyal to a group of people who totally stabbed him in the back?

"Get in the Senate race, Paul. We're all behind you!"

"Brown's changed his mind, Paul. Get out of the Senate race. Now."

"Hello, Mr.Hackett Donor? Yeah, drop your financial support for Paul Hackett; we want to "encourage" him to drop out of the race."
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. You are speculating all that
And what is known is that he cried foul and he's hurt our party by doing so.
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rexcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
49. Since your not from Ohio and don't know what...
your talking about your opinion is of little value for those of us who must indure the bullshit from the Brown camp and the ODP.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. could you please elaborate on this, rexcat ...
what is your objection to Brown and what role has the ODP had in the Brown and Hackett race ???

it is indeed difficult to ascertain what really happened here ...
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rexcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Hackett was asked to run against DeWine by...
the leadership of the ODP leadership, Harry Reid, Schumer and Brown. Right after Hackett announced his candidacy Brown announces that he will run for the Senate seat. At that point the ODP leadership and the national Democrats get behind Brown. ON top of that Reid and Schumer have been reported (by Hackett) to have recently called Hackett supporters and told not to financially support his campaign. Paul has been at a disadvantage with money and more recently with the lack of support from the Democratic leadership.

What I am worried about is the repukes in Ohio have a collective sigh of relief that Hackett is out of the race and are framing Brown as an out of touch liberal who can't connect with Ohioans. If they are successfully in framing the debate in this manner Brown is dead as far as winning DeWine's seat. As bad as DeWine is this state is still very repukian. One thing in Brown's favor is the absolute corruption of the repukes in Ohio. Ohio repukes are the poster children for corruption and cronyism. They have taken it to an art form.

There as been more than a heated debate of Brown vs. Hackett in the Ohio forum. It has gotten very contentious. The Brown supporters have been rubbing the Hackett supporters nose in the ground for the past several months. The Brown supporters are typically from NE Ohio (Cleveland metro area) which is more Democratic based than the rest of the state. The Hackett supporters are from SW Ohio (Cincinnati metro area) where the repukes outnumber the Democrats anywhere from 2:1 to 3:1 depending on what county you live in.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Great post!
You might have added that when Reid and Schumer called Hackett they promised him help with finding the funding. Hell, they had their wives call Hackett's wife and ask her to sacrifice for the good of the country. Hackett was getting his life back together after the house race, and understood that he had no war chest. But the Washington insiders promised the moon. Until they didn't.

I haven't lived in Ohio for many years, but my family is still there. I agree with you that Hackett would have won Ohio, especially an Ohio feed up with gop corruption, and by temperment in agreement with a Marine maverick. But simply logic tells me that if Ohio has turned on Dewine because he is too moderate, thinking that they will cross the road to vote for a liberal Dem is foolishness.

It may not be over until someone sings, but the tune is sounding increasing sour.

I do hope that if I see this post next December, I can laugh about being so wrong. Still.... I'm just saying what I feel in my political bones.
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rexcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. The whole story line is complicated and...
as a liberal Democrat who has lived in a very conservative area I saw hope in Hackett. He is a straight shooter who does not back down from the repukes. If you just listen to the sound bites of Hackett you can come away with the wrong impression. He is a complicated individual with strong opinions. There are some issues that I am not 100% behind but when I listed to his reasoning my respect for him grew. I hope he comes back fight another day. He is the type of individual we we need in the Democratic Party to fight the right-wing nut jobs in the repukian party. I don't see Brown in the same light.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Perception is everything, as the dems will find out, yet again...
and do they learn? Ever?
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. It's Paul Hackett that should learn this.
He put his personal pride above limiting damage to the party.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Right it's all his fault...
:eyes:
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Nice response.
Debate champion?:eyes: :sarcasm:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. You're not interested in debating ideas, neither are the Party Powers.
They're just interested in pushing their agenda, and screw the wishes and needs of the citizens. Do you really not get that this is kind of crap that killed the party?
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rexcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. I would categorically disagree with you on this...
Being from SW Ohio and putting up with the repukes in the area for the past 18 years Paul Hackett said it straight and did not back down from the repukes. Every time the repukes tried to smear him he fired back. It was great to finally see a Democrat with spine. This whole situation will leave the Democratic Party looking weak.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Listen.
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 03:19 PM by iconoclastNYC
We have to fight to take back the party. That means we have to fight for better leadership, fight for better candidates in the primaries, donate for true progressives.

But in this race, we're it wasn't a DLC versus a Progressive. It was a proven Progressive (Brown) versus an unknown (Hackett). The problem is the cult of personality took over and emotions got all inflamed.

What we should really focus our attention on is what Schumer did in PA. Casey is a class-A DINO and we're stuck with him. I think in this case the progressives in our party would be wise to join forces with the Green party to back a third party.

We progressives need to put the leadership on notice: Our checks are smaller that the DLC's but we have people power, and we're waking up and we're going to excercise that power.

We have to break the back of the DLC but lets not get bent out of shape. We still have an excellent progressive candidate in Ohio.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Casey
we couldn't agree more about the Party's support of Casey ...

and just to clarify, i did not endorse either Hackett or Brown ... frankly, i thought both had something to offer ...

in the end, i fault both Hackett and the Party's leadership for the damage this will cause ... they both failed to reach a suitable compromise and the whole thing exploded within public view ... not good at all ...
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. But a primary is a competition.
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 03:28 PM by iconoclastNYC
Hackett thought he was going to lose. Trumped up a conspiracy theory and blabbed about it. Hurting the party. There was defin a conspiracy against Dean but did he talk about that? No he took the fucking party over!
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. in a primary, the party should let Democrats decide
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 03:36 PM by welshTerrier2
again, i am not defending what Hackett did because we don't have all the facts ...

but i don't accept the premise that his allegations had no merit at all ... i suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle ... i don't see how you can use the phrase "trumped up conspiracy theory" and simultaneously argue that we don't have all the facts ...

it's entirely possible that every charge Hackett made is absolutely true ... viewing him as a whining cry baby who was losing and just lashed out arbitrarily at the Democratic Party without knowing more seems ill-advised ...

there were two parties to the relationship that ultimately exploded: Hackett himself and the Party's campaign hierarchy ... it seems likely neither party did us much good in whatever actually occurred ...
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. Hackett denied the Ohio voters the chance to vote for him.
He's passing the buck onto the DC insiders but it was his choice. He could have stayed and fought, but he took the easy way out and displayed his sourt grapes all over the media. Tacky.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. The sexy, sexy David Sirota!!
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I had only heard Al call him that but
WOW!!! :loveya: I thought Al was joking, but clearly he was not!
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Same here.
I'm in LOVE!!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Why isn't he on TV ?
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 03:26 PM by iconoclastNYC
Why is it that the only Democrats you see on Tv are either:

1. women
2. lesbian
3. black
4. effiminate?

I'm not racist, or sexist, or homophobic, but you want your spokesman to ahve appeal: attractive, well spoken, and non threatening. The target we need to focus on is white men....that's the republicans biggest support block. Our spokesman should be a masculine white man who is attractive and well spoken.

The corporate media's bookers will not allow that.

And then the DLC gets thier poster children to do our SOTU response and we get creepy Tim Kaine and his freakish eyebrow.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Have you heard David talk ???
Good lord, he opens his mouth and a purse falls out!!!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Sirota?
I just listened to him on Thom Hartmann. I don't know who you are talking about. He sounds very masculine.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I'm kidding.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. LMFAO!
:spank:
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. That's the funniest phrase i've heard in a long time Ronny
I'll have to remember that one
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. That's all nice and wonderful and rational, but the electorate
is not always rational. Brown is on the defensive now, and the GOP will exploit it (and how!) Well, it's just politics and who cares if we win. We will probably lose Ohio.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. What?
Don't be such a pessimist. If we lose Ohio it's because they don't run elections fairly.

Brown is an excellent candidate and I woudln't be surprised if he adopts some of Hackett's style.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. Doesn't matter how good he is. The GOP machine will have him
running a phantom campaign against Hackett. He will be on the defensive and seen as weak needing Schumer (liberal northeasterner) and Reid to pull his buns out of the fire. I am not saying this to be mean. It's what I would do in DeWhine's place. He'll lose.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. I think Sirota makes a pretty convincing argument here.
I find it very hard to argue with what he's saying.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. With a face like that ...
he could convince me to do just about anything !!!

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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. i disagree ...
i agree completely with Sirota's characterization of Hackett's conduct ... i agree with his theme that "there's no crying in politics" ... Hackett did not demonstrate the temperament needed to succeed politically ... so, no defense of how he handled the situation and i agree with both you and Sirota on that ...

however, neatly tucked away in gibberish and innuendo is Sirota's wholly unsubstantiated speculation about what really occurred between the Party's campaign hierarchy, e.g. Emanuel, Schumer and Reid, and Hackett himself ... i saw no evidence to refute the allegations Hackett made ... absent more proof, i don't see how Sirota reached the conclusions he did ...

this whole incident is likely to be more fodder for the republican spin machine next November ... i can hear it now: "the Democrats are hostile to the military" ... yes, we can refute these allegations but there's not much positive that will come from this sorry incident ... again, Hackett handled the situation very badly ... it's not clear, however, that Sirota's "free pass" to the Party's campaign leadership is justified either ... in the end, he presented no evidence one way or the other ...
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I'm concerned the Democrats just lost a potential and much-needed new base
The young Iraqi War veteran generation. It was clear that a lot of young vets were considering becoming Democratic voters -- but this incident with Hackett may change their minds.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. well, maybe ...
my understanding is that many Iraq vets are running as Democratic candidates around the country ... but i do agree that this incident, regardless of who's at fault, cannot do us any good ...

the relationship between Hackett and those in the Party he was "negotiating" with should have been handled in a better way ... when no agreement was reached as to what the Party's role should have and should not have been, Hackett went public and damage was done ...

i suspect all parties to the negotiations share the blame to some degree ...
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Sirota (who has been very critical of the Dem leadership for a long, long
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 04:25 PM by Douglas Carpenter
time) was backing Sherrod Brown from the very beginning of this race.

I agree with David Sirota. I want REAL progressives to win. Don't we all? Haven't we progressives been telling the Dem leadership in DC for the last 30+ years that running progressives with a clearly defined progressive agenda is the winning strategy? Haven't we been telling the Dem leadership in DC for the past 30+ years that we don't want photogenic centrist with a vague undefined agenda? If by some miracle the Dem leadership in DC got it this time, well good for them. It's a dramatic change from business as usual.

Brown Tops DeWine in New Poll
An Opinion Consultants poll finds Ohio voters favor Rep. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) for the U.S. Senate over incumbent Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH), 43% to 38%

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/01/26/brown_tops_dewine_in_new_poll.html

Sherrod Brown is endorsed by PDA (Progressive Democrats of America) and is an outspoken member of the Progressive Caucus.

Representative Brown is at least as liberal as Sen. Kennedy or Sen. Feingold

courtesy of vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=H3141103&type=category&category=Foreign%2BAid%2Band%2BPolicy%2BIssues&go.x=12&go.y=8


2006 In 2006 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Brown a rating of A.

2005 In 2005 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Brown a rating of A.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Council on American-Islamic Relations 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (WRMEA) 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Peace Action 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 84 percent in 2003-2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 96 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Council of La Raza 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 77 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 90 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Education Association 89 percent in 2003-2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Postal Workers Union 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2004.

2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 88 percent of the time.

2004 On the votes that the Service Employees International Union considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Communications Workers of America 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers considered to be the most important in 2003-2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 On the votes that the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 94 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 In 2004 National Organization for Women endorsed Representative Brown.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. is this responsive to my post?
the main point i made was that Sirota presented absolutely no evidence to support his speculation that Hackett's allegations about the Party's conduct were fabricated ...

the reality is that he probably has no idea what really happened and had no justification to draw the conclusion he did ...

Brown sounds like an excellent candidate but that has nothing to do with the post i made ... at issue here is the conduct of the parties involved, i.e., Hackett and certain Democratic leaders ... the truth and propriety about what actually occurred remains unknown contrary to Sirota's "theories" ... the fact that Sirota is a frequent critic does not render his unsubstantiated speculations any more valid ...
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. not exactly, sorry
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. no problem at all ...
thanks for all the info on Brown ... i've been meaning to learn more about him ...
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. Sirota puts "forced out" in quotes, but that phrase appears nowhere
...in the NY Times article he links to.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
38. What Sirota doesn't understand is
that a lot of us who are ticked off about this are especially ticked off because of how the Democratic leadership went about this. If it had been reversed -- if Hackett was the one who first declined to run, then changed his mind, and then the Dem leadership undercut Brown -- I'd be just as outraged for Brown as I am for Hackett now.

As I told Sirota on his blog: His lying about what actually happened with Hackett makes him no better than your typical College Republican.
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Edgewater_Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
43. OWWW! TESTIFY!
Glad to see I'm not insane after all!
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Aaaargh Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
52. We'll just see how this reads in November, won't we?
IF Sherrod Brown wins his Senate seat, it will be largely because the traditional Democrats in OH who backed Hackett for very good and obivous reasons worked hard to push Brown over the top.

But to accomplish that, they're going to need some help from Brown himself in a very tough and dirty race against an incumbent with a well-deserved rep for viciousness, and who will have both a money advantage and the advantage of a Repig-friendly corporate-whore media, which will smear him and take his opponent's side.

It's a sad fact that Sherrod Brown took a stand against the Iraq 'mission' in '02 and '03, but weasels on taking a stand now, in obedience to the DLC/DSCC imperialist line. If he continues to do that, he's going to lose in November, no matter how much support Democratic activists give him, and it's going to be his fault and the fault of the corporatist sellouts who are currently championing him, but may drop him for good by next week, as they have done in so many other instances.

"Progressive heart-throb" indeed - grow up, will you? Who cares about this guy? The DSCC's betrayal of Ohio voters is -- as Sen. Gary Hart, Gov. Howard Dean and other traditional Democrats with far more credibility than this jackass have pointed out -- an appalling and shameful display of corruption, which may well hurt Democrats' chances of retaking Congress in November. If Sirota can't even recognize that, who cares what he thinks?
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