What's the timeline for the Hackett Switfboat rumor?

[OzarkDem]

Ohio Dem political activists who have been on the campaign trail around the state have said that nothing has been the rumor mill regarding rumors about Hackett's Iraq service.

The inflammatory story being shopped around, that someone somewhere had photos of Hackett in Iraq, would have gone through the political grapevine like wildfire here in Ohio. But nothing was out there on the story.

Instead, the rumor began to break here online in DU the day Hackett pulled out of the race. Later it made its way to motherjones via an interview with Hackett himself and, shortly after, to the GOP media outlet the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Its incredibly odd that a "whispering campaign" to discredit Hackett never made it anywhere beyond Hackett's own campaign.

Any one have a timeline on when the rumor started here on DU?

[Cocoa]

1. I never saw that rumor

I've been an active participant in the Brown/Hackett discussion, and I haven't seen the rumor itself, only rumors about the rumor.

I did see the old "plagiarism" story against Sherrod Brown posted after Hackett dropped out. I saw that with my own eyes.

[OzarkDem]

2. Interesting, isn't it?

A whispering campaign that only existed after it was talked about by the candidate.

Given the nature of the Ohio political grapevine, such a story would have gotten around with lightning speed. But it never did.

[seriousstan]

6. According to VolcanoJen, she heard it in real time and kept it quiet

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=172x12680

[OzarkDem]

10. When is "real time"?

and from whom did she hear it?

[seriousstan]

11. Good questions....for her. Why don't you ask her?

[RazzleDazzle]

3. Hmph. Perhaps even odder that Reid's office confirmed????

You're looking in the wrong place. You might actually read the available, published information -- none of which has been denied by ANYONE NAMED:

Swift boats soon appeared on the horizon. A whisper campaign started: Hackett committed war crimes in Iraq—and there were photos. “The first rumor that I heard was probably a month and a half ago,” Dave Lane, chair of the Clermont County Democratic Party, told me the day after Hackett pulled out of the race. “I heard it more than once that someone was distributing photos of Paul in Iraq with Iraqi war casualties with captions or suggestions that Paul had committed some sort of atrocities. Who did it? I have no idea. It sounds like a Republican M.O. to me, but I have no proof of that. But if it was someone on my side of the fence, I have a real problem with that. I have a hard time believing that a Democrat would do that to another Democrat.”

In late November, Hackett got a call from Sen. Harry Reid. “I hear there’s a photo of you mistreating bodies in Iraq. Is it true?” demanded the Senate minority leader. “No sir,” replied Hackett. To drive home his point, Hackett traveled to Washington to show Reid’s staff the photo in question. Hackett declined to send me the photo, but he insists that it shows another Marine—not Hackett—unloading a sealed body bag from a truck. “There was nothing disrespectful or unprofessional,” he insists. “That was a photo of a Marine doing his job. If you don’t like what they’re doing, don’t send Marines into war.”

A staffer in Reid’s office confirmed that Hackett had showed them several photos. “The ones I saw were part of a diary he kept while serving in Iraq and were in no way compromising. The one picture in question depicted marines doing their work on what looked like a scorching day in Iraq,” said the aide.

But the whispering continued, and Hackett was troubled. “It creates doubt and suspicion,” Hackett told me, saying his close supporters were asking him privately about the rumors.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2006/02/hackett_drops_out.html

[Cocoa]

4. that narrative is very confusing to me

as far as I can tell, no one has come forth who has actually been passed these photos. If I'm wrong, someone please tell me who has been shown these photos as part of the smear campaign, and who showed it to them.

Regarding the photo Hackett showed Reid, this article refers to it as "the photo in question." How does Hackett know this is the photo in question? Maybe there's an answer, but I find it odd that this article leaves that question unanswered, unasked even.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[OzarkDem]

8. And the only confirmation from Reid's office

is from his aide who said Hackett showed him the pictures. There are a whole lot of unanswered questions here.

A strange rumor that only started to circulate on the day Hackett pulled out.

Could Hackett be a Rove "stalking horse"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_horse

[Cocoa]

12. I believe Hackett showed him the pictures

because it sounds like Hackett confirmed this and I believe Hackett.

But given that all the basic facts in the article are true, I think the author makes an irresponsible conclusion that Hackett is being swiftboated, and even more irresponsible suggestion that it was done by the dems. He just takes it and runs with it.

What he should do is resolve the confusion that still exists. But he doesn't, he leaves it shrouded in mystery and it appears deliberate, imo.

[OzarkDem]

17. So even if we assume Reid asked him about it

Why did no one else hear about it? Things like that are pretty hard to keep quiet. I can't recall a Dem faux scandal that remained hidden for so long and ended up doing no damage.

[Adelante]

15. Um, stick with reality nt

[Catrina]

24. Could Hackett be a Rove "stalking horse"?

Could this be the beginning of another 'whisper campaign'?

[OzarkDem]

25. If so

its a pretty loud whisper, is it? :D

While its unlikely, these are things that have to be put on the table.

The political season for 2006-2008 has just kicked off and we have to have some brutally frank discussions about what will undoubtedly be coming our way. We know what Rove is capable of and we have to be prepared to talk about it.

[OzarkDem]

5. If it was a smear campaign

it wasn't working. No one in Ohio heard anything about it until the other day. Pretty ineffective smear campaign wouldn't you say?

Sorry, but all Reid's office confirmed was that Hackett showed them some photos, nothing more. If this story had been circulating around Ohio, I'd give it some credence. But there hasn't been a word about it anywhere.

Nada, zip, zilch.

[seriousstan]

7. Read this.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=172x12680

[OzarkDem]

9. Already have

Its not telling me anything.

I live in Ohio and have talked to people working on campaigns here. No one heard anything about this story until the day Hackett withdrew, when it started to break in DU.

You're going to need a whole lot more than this and I suggest you start looking at the GOP.

[formernaderite]

34. the point seems to have been to cut off his ability to retaliate

via "funds". If true, they cut off his money with the threat of a rumour. It didn't have to travel beyond DC, who's going to invest in a candidate that could crash and burn.

[OzarkDem]

19. Sorry, this article only quotes Reid's staffer

about looking at the pictures.

As I said earlier, even if we make the assumption that Reid called Hackett in late November (that's almost 3 months ago) why did no one in political circles Ohio hear of it?

This just doesn't pass the smell test, its got too many holes.

[greenohio]

28. Nothing to see here. Move along now people.

Some things just don't fit in some peoples world view.

typo

[MH1]

38. Consider the source.

Mother Jones has been known to print inaccurate Democrat-bashing stories in the past. That is why I no longer subscribe. I consider their journalism suspect, if not their motives.

[pat_k]

13. Whatever the timeline, he ACTED, and acted fast. . .

Unlike Kerry, Paul Hackett acted, and acted fast. He even went to DC to make sure Reid knew EXACTLY what was happening.

It's Insiders v. Outsiders (Outsiders = We the People)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2463516&mesg_id=2463516

[OzarkDem]

16. When? When did he go to Washington DC?

When did he first hear of this rumor? Why was he acting on it when no one else had heard it?There's no confirmation that it came from Reid.

I'm not casting aspersions on Hackett, just trying to find out when this started. Because it sure wasn't out in the rumor mill until the day Hackett himself talked about it.

[Adelante]

20. This is what Hackett says

As soon as he announced in October he heard about the whisper campaign and the photos. He says he called Schumer in the "Fall" and told him about it. According to Hackett, Schumer said he would take care of the matter. (What this means, I don't know.) In late-November, Reid called Hackett and asked about the photos. Soon after that, Hackett went to DC with the photos and showed them to Reid's staff who said they saw nothing inappropriate.

That's what I have been able to gather from the various reports and interviews.

[OzarkDem]

21. So it never really went anywhere

Seriously, it wasn't in the rumor mill here in Ohio.

It almost sounds as though the rumor started in Washington DC, not Ohio.

[Adelante]

23. I don't see that

It could as easily started in Ohio as anywhere. In any case, it was still moving as the guy named Lane in my post below first heard it around New Years in Ohio, or he's in Ohio, anyway.

[OzarkDem]

26. Believe me, if it had started here

in October or November, it would have gotten around the state Dem rumor mill by now. This has been one of the most over-analyzed Dem primaries in a long time.

[Adelante]

35. Really, that's not good enough

It's a piece, but it doesn't prove anything.

[OzarkDem]

48. No, its everything

The whisper campaign that never took root.

[emulatorloo]

31. Sounds like typical Rove/GOP/RNC crap to me

they just love to stir the pot. And they just love to stir dems up against each other.

[pat_k]

22. Reid asked Hackett about it in November.

From http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2006/02/hackett_drops_out.html">Backroom Battles (David Goodman, February 16 , 2006)

Turns out the article does have some timeline info in it.

. . .In late November, Hackett got a call from Sen. Harry Reid. “I hear there’s a photo of you mistreating bodies in Iraq. Is it true?” demanded the Senate minority leader. “No sir,” replied Hackett. To drive home his point, Hackett traveled to Washington to show Reid’s staff the photo in question. Hackett declined to send me the photo, but he insists that it shows another Marine—not Hackett—unloading a sealed body bag from a truck. “There was nothing disrespectful or unprofessional,” he insists. “That was a photo of a Marine doing his job. If you don’t like what they’re doing, don’t send Marines into war.”

A staffer in Reid’s office confirmed that Hackett had showed them several photos. “The ones I saw were part of a diary he kept while serving in Iraq and were in no way compromising. The one picture in question depicted Marines doing their work on what looked like a scorching day in Iraq,” said the aide. . .

I have assumed the "rumor" originated with Republicans, but I would not be surprised if it was helped along by the Cleveland Plain Dealer (which the Mother Jones article cites as having as having "obtained" an internal poll done for the Hackett campaign earlier this month). Coincidently, Brown's wife, Connie Schultz is a Cleveland Plain Dealer columnist (now on leave)

[OzarkDem]

27. Barkin up the wrong tree there

The PD rumormongering is done by its GOP editors who use every opportunity to bash Dems.

Good luck with trying to blame Connie Schultz. You may rue the day you say something that dumb.

[pat_k]

47. I said I "assumed the "rumor" originated with Republicans". . .

No where in my post did I blame Connie Schultz.

I said that I would not be surprised if the paper she is on leave from passed along the rumors.

The reason I would not be surprised is that journalists are human, and it would be very human to jump on a story that takes the man who is running against a colleague's husband down a peg.

[emulatorloo]

29. sorry to interrupt, but why the annoying and unsupportable Kerry Bash?!?!

'Unlike Kerry, Paul Hackett acted, and acted fast.'

That is just plain wrong -- I don't care what the "conventional wisdom" is on DU.

There is a good overview here of what Kerry Campaign and DNC did to rebut swifties - Speeches, Counter Ads called RASSMAN and ISSUES, Max Cleland to Crawford ranch in a Sheehan style protest, Press conferences w Wes Clark etc etc -- a response that started the SAME DAY THAT THE SWIFTIES BEGAN THEIR ADS.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/ads04/swiftadresponse.html

THE MEDIA IGNORED IT TO GIVE CONTINUAL FREE TIME TO SWIFTIES. AND MOST BIG DEMS SAT ON THEIR HANDS AND LET IT HAPPEN

Comparing all that stuff to a plane ride and a private visit to Reid's office just doesn't make sense.

[OzarkDem]

30. Agree, it wasn't even accurate

That's what doesn't wash with me.

When Kerry was "swiftboated" the word got out very quickly. Granted it was being pushed in the news media, but it was still a lie the GOP knew would get around very quickly. That's why they use the tactic.

One would think that a campaign to smear Hackett's reputation by lying about photos showing him involved in war crimes would have taken off like crazy. But it didn't. It supposedly just floated around somewhere for a few months, then came out after he decided to pull out of the race.

BTW, I agree, Kerry acted very fast when the attacks began against him. He'd been through it years before, hadn't he, when he first ran for Senate.

[emulatorloo]

32. It makes sense to me that Repugs would stir the pot in Ohio

and try to cause trouble . . . whether or not they were planning an attack on Hackett or not. And even if they KNEW there was not going to be one. It is what they do. So I can easily imagine "somebody" floating a rumor that an attack was coming on Hackett. It is just typical repug psy-ops.

All speculation on my part, BUT REALLY, I don't think we need to look any further than the RNC, GOP, and ROVe.

At any rate, maybe the strategy Kerry and DNC took was wrong, but it was quick, and it is certainly comparing apples and oranges and coming up with Bananas to compare it unfavorable to a phone call and plane ride to Harry Reid's office.

[pat_k]

46. Waiting three months is "fast"??

The tepid response from May to August was pitiful.

Kerry's campaign did not begin to fight with a scintilla of force until until August.

[emulatorloo]

39. Even Better SwiftBoat Timeline here in DU Research Forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=358&topic_id=2555&mesg_id=2555

[pat_k]

44. "bash" is rooted in his egregious deriliction of duty from Nov 2 to Jan 6

Swift Boating began in May 2004 -- Kerry's campaign did not begin a serious fight against them until August.

Not exactly a swift response.

But, the "Kerry bash," as you label it, has little to do with his slow response to the swift boat smear. It has everything to do with his failure to stand up for the ONLY stakeholders in a Presidential election -- the voters.

Like Gore, who failed to keep his promise to "fight for you" when he folded in the face of the criminal Bush v. Gore edict handed down by the five black-robbed robbers, Kerry fell victim to "fear of smear" when he conceded Ohio and failed to demand comprehensive investigation and audits of EVERY suspect election.

Perhaps ignorance of the facts can excuse his initial failure, but there is NOTHING legally binding about a statement of concession. When the facts became crystal clear, he had a duty to revoke his concession and fight the for the sole principle on which this nation is founded -- the consent of the governed.

He did not.

On January 6th, he had a duty to enforce the intent of the law and reject the electors from every state that failed to give the voters confidence in the results of their elections.

He did not.

We expect members of our armed services to risk life and limb to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Kerry and Gore took the same oath. Why should we expect less then them?

Given the nature of the Bush Syndicate, perhaps they faced more dire threats than ridicule as "sore losers" -- but whatever the risk, they abandoned their oath.

With their dereliction of duty they guaranteed unitary authoritarian rule by a criminal Syndicate and they put the American contract -- the Constitution of the United States of America -- into breach.

Is it any wonder that citizens "bash" these men?

Even in the face of their egregious failures, either man can redeem himself tomorrow by admitting mistake and declaring the truth: that We the People did not consent to the Bush presidency; that, in key states, tens of thousands more voters went to the polls to cast their vote for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004; that in those states, both the letter and intent of the law was violated to thwart the will of the voters and wrongfully appoint Bush electors.

[Adelante]

14. The day after Hackett pulled out, or that night, maybe

Ed Schultz interview with Hackett:


http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/21406Hackett.mp3


People here on DU were talking about the interview and "Swiftboating" - that was the first I heard of it.

[Adelante]

18. And the Mother Jones article quotes

“The first rumor that I heard was probably a month and a half ago,” Dave Lane, chair of the Clermont County Democratic Party, told me the day after Hackett pulled out of the race.

[bklyncowgirl]

33. Was this a Republican pre-emptive strike? I think so.

Let's assume that the Republicans were scared of Hackett because he was the sort of guy who could reach pissed off blue collar types who might otherwise vote Republican on social issues.

Wouldn't it have made sense that they would have tried to take him out in the primaries?

A rumor that the best known "fighting Dem" had a less than honorable history in Iraq would set off warning signals in high level Democratic circles--and if Hackett was forced to step down--exacerbate already existing tensions between establishment Democrats and the liberal bloggers who love Paul Hackett. It might also exacerbate tensions between DNC chairman Dean (who may himself been the victim of a pre-emptive strike) and congressional Democrats. All in all a good move for the Republicans.

Also, the fact that we never heard anything about it is not surprising. If this rumor was circulating in the upper echelons of the Democratic Party I highly doubt that anyone in the know was going to be racing to post it on DU or any other blog for that matter much less blab to the media.

Maybe my tinfoil beret is on a little too tight and maybe a cigar is just a cigar and it was Sherrod Brown's people doing the swiftboating but maybe we should be looking at someone else--someone like Karl Rove.

[Adelante]

37. That's who I'm looking for, Karl Rove

We can only hope. Your analysis is one I share, for now.

[Adelante]

36. Last summer

The rumor about Hackett had been known since last summer, according Brain Rothenberger of the Ohio Democratic Party. “Who knows where it came from?” he said in a phone interview; but he did say it originated in the blogosphere. “I don’t think it had any credibility. The blogs are fueled by rumor. It’s a perpetuated myth.”

http://www.motherjones.org/news/update/2006/03/hackett_drops_out_02.html

[Adelante]

41. October

Complex mix behind Hackett's withdrawal
Political newcomer ill at ease with process
Saturday, February 18, 2006
Elizabeth Auster
Plain Dealer Bureau


-snip

Hackett downplayed speculation this week that a major factor in his decision to leave the race was a rumor circulating in Democratic circles that photos existed showing he had committed war crimes in Iraq. He said he met last fall with Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid to reassure him there was no truth to the rumors, which he said disgusted him. The prospect of the rumors becoming public weighed on him less, recently, because New York Sen. Charles Schumer, who heads the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, "intervened at my request."

In an interview with The Plain Dealer, Hackett said he knew the source of the rumors but didn't want to elaborate.

He referred a reporter to Clermont County Democratic chairman David Lane, who said Friday that he has "seen no proof that a Democrat" was behind the rumors.

He said Hackett might have mentioned him because he had told Hackett last fall that Dan Lucas, an aide to Brown, had said to him shortly after Brown entered the race that "there are things out there about Paul that I don't think he really wants to be made public."

-snip

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/114025579369310.xml&coll=2&thispage=3

So Lucas told Lane there were rumors - it doesn't mean Lucas started the rumors.

[Kolesar]

42. Someone show me the blog posts--they should still be there, archived

"he (Rothenberger) did say it originated in the blogosphere."

[Adelante]

43. Yeah, I'd like to see them, too nt

[OzarkDem]

49. There's that motherjones article again

an amazing piece of sleight of hand journalism.

Those of us familiar with the Ohio blogosphere know such a smear campaign would have traveled like wildfire around the state. Didn't happen.

[Kolesar]

40. Goodman f'ed up by telling half the story &not telling who was whispering

You ought to write to Mother Jones and pump 'em for info. I'm serious. Their editors and writers need to be accountable. They are harming a good candidate's campaign. Borrow heavily:

A dynamite reporter could find if the gop was behind the "war photos"smear

David Goodman "left it hanging" there by suggesting it could have been GOP operatives. I wish he had finished the investigation. Now David has accomplished floating an idea out there that just may become commonly-held knowledge, despite its veracity. I am pretty sure that David is Amy Goodman's brother.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=172x12680#12681

[Kolesar]

45. Slander:"shows that the Dem party wont back up veterans...blah,blah,blah"

There were a few posts on DU to that effect right after Mr. Hackett withdrew. That, and the Auster/Goodman slander, seem to have a common theme of alienating veterans from Democrats. I am getting more pissed off by the minute.