Howard Dean:skulduggery in Washington did in Hackett

[greenohio]

According to AP, Democratic party chairman Howard Dean told a student audience in Miami that "some skulduggery in Washington" improperly led to Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett's decision to end his bid for the U.S. Senate.

Skullduggery?

Skullduggery or skulduggery. n. sneaky, dishonest behavior; trickery.
(Webster's New World College Dictionary)

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/gov /

[Captain Hilts]

1. Welcome to the world of politics, Mr. Hackett. Now, Howard, shut up. nt

[greenohio]

6. Nothing to see here people. Move along now. nt

[1932]

2. Where does the AP report that?

Does the blogger at that link cite an original source?

[greenohio]

64. The blogger links to the original source. Links, you click on them.

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849
http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849&nav=8H...
http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849

[ProSense]

3. The latest statement from Dean (Thursday, Feb. 16):

Dean Statement on the Ohio Senate Race

February 16, 2006
Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean today issued the following statement supporting Congressman Sherrod Brown's Senate campaign:

"I admire Paul Hackett, he's done a lot for the country and stood up for America and our democratic values. I consider him a great friend and I sincerely hope he will remain active in Democratic politics. The Democratic Party was very lucky to have two outstanding candidates in the race for Senate in Ohio.

"Now that the possibility of a bitter primary that inadvertently benefits a Republican incumbent is behind us, I want to urge everyone to come together in support of Sherrod Brown. Everyone who knows Sherrod knows that he has been a strong advocate for Ohio's working families in Congress, and will continue to stand up for them in the U.S. Senate. Ohio voters also know that they can count on Sherrod Brown to fight the Republican culture of corruption that Mike DeWine is a part of, and refocus our government on creating jobs that stay in Ohio, improving access to health care for all Americans, and promoting a strong public education system that restores opportunity and optimism."


http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/02/dean_statement_14.php

[greenohio]

7. None of which says anything about

the manner in which Hackett was booted...it was skuldugery by the way.

[SHRED]

4. Randi contends

And she said she HAS NO PROOF.

That a deal may have been struck like this:

The pukes offered Dem leaders that the NSA investigation would only continue if the Dems pulled Hackett so DeWine could have a chance.
Of course, based on results, if this is true then the Dems were hustled...again!

Now DeWine is suggesting legislation to rewrite NSA to not be accountable to FISA...coincidence?

[BlueEyedSon]

8. Didn't the polls show Brown doing better than Hackett against

DeWine?

[SHRED]

13. link?

I'd have a difficult time believing that in REDneck Ohio Hackett could be beat by any other Dem.

[1932]

16. Stories quoted here at DU said that Hackett's campaign had

internal polling showing hacket with 24% in the primary against Brown's 46%, and that was after Hackett spent a million dollars.

Check the archives. The link is in the first really long LBN post about Hackett pulling out.

[BlueEyedSon]

17. what he said. thx!

[greenohio]

21. Gosh if Brown was winning, why the skulduggery? Just have the primary?

Do we not believe in primaries any more?

[1932]

46. Blame Hackett for dropping out if that's your concern.

[greenohio]

50. Dropping out isn't underhanded. Calling donors to discourage them from

donating to a Democrat is.

[Catrina]

80. Excellently put ~ amazing that these two actions, when compared,

are not drawing the same conclusion you came to (which is the only one, if decency is what we are aiming for in government and of course in general).

...

Q. (to Freeper) What's more important to you, winning even if it means destroying a fellow Republican, or losing and keeping your integrity?

A. Huh? You don't know the answer to that? Well here ya go! F@#k him, F$#him like he's never been F#$%^D before!! Oh, and iff you need to ask THAT question, you're nothing but a wimpy, lieberal traitor!!

Q. Would you like to work for me, let me introduce myself, I'm Karl Rove, and I like your style!

....

So that's what we've come to ~ it's not for me, I'm afraid ~ I happen to think you can win with integrity. I know lots of people who have and I also believe that you might not always win, but you should always preserve your integrity. I look up to such people for leadership and guidance.

You can do way more good in the world that way, than by winning and losing your most important assett. Such a win, is really a loss. Good for Hackett for not being willing to trade his honor for a win.

I'm sure he'll help in the race for the Senate, but I doubt they'll want him. He might tell the truth too often to Bush et al, and god forbid the Democrats should do that!! We have to play nice with our Republican abusers! :-(

[radio4progressives]

84. rumors have it that the party bosses want to drop primaries... n/t

[greenohio]

90. I believe there are some who would be content with that.

Primaries require thinking, and voting. Why do that when we can have the Dem Leadership do it for us?

[John Barrett]

100. The Parties Do It For Us

I agree that there is something condescending about the Party leadership picking primary candidates. But they do it all the time which is why I basically despise party machines and why I'm essentially an independent looking to vote Democrat.

The Democrat party needs candidates like Hackett, that is if they ever want to win any elections in red states.

[rinsd]

106. Internal polls from both

Brown - http://blog.oh02.com/2005/12/12/51-yes-38-favorable

Hackett - http://www.cleveland.com/open/wide/index.ssf?/open/wide/hackettpoll.html

Brown was leading both handily.

[Aaaargh]

61. NO. That's a lie being peddled here.

There were supposedly polls that showed that Brown did much better in the PRIMARY CONTEST among LIKELY VOTERS, however those might have been defined. This is in a state where Democrat voters are concentrated in the north, where Brown is from, while Hackett is from the southern part of the state.

Anytime a candidate is seen as one who promises to win SWING VOTERS, that key part of their support will be excluded from 'likely voters' in polls concerning a partisan primary. Those persons who come out and register as Democrats just to vote for the candidate with swing-voter appeal can throw the election to their guy, however. In fact, Hackett did better than Brown in some of these same polls when the configuration was put differently.

In polls of the race with DeWine, Hackett did as well or better than Brown -- and this with the hard part of the race still months away. Along with early polls, we have to make the best prognostications we can about what's likely to happen down the road, and a lot of us OH Democrats see Brown as very vulnerable to the usual sort of attacks we've seen before from the Republican camp, and especially from the very vicious campaigner DeWine.

[BlueEyedSon]

82. So, you have a link to the poll?

[WCGreen]

19. Give me a freakin' break...

People outside of Ohio don't even know who Sherrod Brown is...

So how can they claim that he doesn't have a chance to beat Dewine....

It's just utter lunacy.....

Brown has won Statewide before....

The only reason he lost, to Bob Taft in 1988, was because Taft threw a curve ball at the last instance and came up with a very catchy cartoon attack....

And out spent him somewhere in the vacinity of three to one....

He didn't have time to respond....

So people....

Give Brown a chance already...

[greenohio]

55. Apparently black balling Hackett hurt Browns chances

as he went DOWN in the polls as a result.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/State%20Polls/February%202006/Ohio%20Senate%20February.htm

If you wanted to give Brown a chance you would be complaining they black balled Hackett with their skulduggery.

[WCGreen]

68. Well I love the Way Rass is used here on DU....

If it is too high for a republican, it's a biased poll...

If it suits the needs of the poster, he is the greatest thing in the history of polling....

Polling this far out is not at all worth pegging an election upon...

But again, Hackett dropped out....

Many others have stayed in to buck the party....

Hackett dropped out...

[greenohio]

72. Make up my mind. Either this move helped Brown or didn't.

Either Brown was beating Hackett in the polls or he wasn't. Polls are used on both sides of this discussion.

In the end, only one poll counted and that was the primary. We will have one choice. Thank you, once again, Dem leadership.

[WCGreen]

75. I never claimed it would help or hurt him....

In the polls...

So I really don't have to make up my mind....

It will definatly help Brown raise and keep money for his campaign....

[Aaaargh]

59. The issue is why HACKETT and his supporters weren't given a chance

I'm from Ohio, and I know a lot of Democrats. Maybe it's just that lowlife crowd I hang around with here in Columbus, but everybody I know said they were going to vote for Hackett, not because they despised Sherrod Brown, but because Brown's chances seems about on a level with those of Hagen, Fisher, and Fingerhut -- all good Democrats who've lost statewide elections in recent years. Hackett seemed to represent something new -- maybe a matter of taking a chance, but a chance that a lot of us felt was worth taking.

Now we Ohio Democratic primary voters have all had their choice taken away by some underhanded maneuverings made by party officials from outside the state. It's wrong, and people who say that what happened is political business-as-usual are either ill-informed or just lying.

If Sherrod Brown is to be our nominee, then he has my support and will get my vote. But I'm not going to pretend that everything looks sunny when it doesn't. Wait 'til DeWine starts running his saturation ads citing and distorting Brown's fairly long record in Congress.

One very bad prospect here, which I hope doesn't come to be, is that Brown might actually be swayed by thse supposed wise men in the Beltway that he should "run as a moderate" in contradiction to his record, which may have been part of the reason they didn't want him to go up against Hackett, which might have made it necessary for Brown to define himself as being to the left of Hackett.

And the worst prospect of all: that Brown might bend to the demand from the DLCers AND THEIR ALLIES that he not take Murtha's and Hackett's position on the Iraq war and call for an ACTUAL withdrawal plan, but, despite his early opposition to the invasion, peddle some vague Bidenesque line about how we, umm, 'need an exit strategy' without laying out any real specifics (which might offend those powerful interests who want their 'LONG WAR' to go on indefinitely.) If Brown's takes that position, I predict, he's COOKED.

[WCGreen]

69. They could have had a chance if he would HAVE STAYED IN THE RACE

[greenohio]

71. Do you think leadership should call donors and ask them not

to contribute to Democratic candidates? Are you cool with this?

[WCGreen]

73. Are you sure they said don't contribute to Hackett...

Or did they say we are supporting Brown....

Look, any outsider should expect some kind of resistance...

It happened to me when I ran....

It's called rounding up your supporters and then keeping them in your fold...

Fund Raising is hard work.... It isn't automatic....

[greenohio]

74. So it happend to you too? So that makes it right?

That makes it ok?

[WCGreen]

78. It doesn't make it right... Or wrong...

It's just how things are done in the real world...

Politics is about people... Motivating people to support you... Work for you... Contribute to your campaign.. Endorse you... And then, after all that, getting the voters to come down on your side...

Brown has decades worth of relationships built up with these donors... With the people who put the feet on the ground when needed...

Hackett had 400k in the bank... All he needed to do was raise another three or four hundred thousand and he could have run a very credible campaign...

He decided it would be too hard to raise that money...

For all we know, he may have not been comfortable calling people and asking them for money... Cause when someone is going to raise big dollars for you, they want you to ask...

Fundraising is very hard... A lot of people will reject you just because they don't want to take a chance... I'm sure Hackett ran into some of that....

[greenohio]

81. Apparently politics is also about

calling donors to stop them from giving money to other candidates as well.

You appear ok with that. I, however, am not.

[WCGreen]

85. How can you stop somebody from giving to a candidate....

More than likely, the conventional donors were already giving to Sherrod... It wouldn't take much to nudge them away from Hackett...

BTW, Hackett comes out of the blue and expects the party donors, who have been cultivated by the democratic leadership for years, to just give him money...

It just doesn't work that way.....

That would be like going into a job at an entry level position and demand that the company automatically promote you to let's say executive VP of the company afer being there for a month or two.....

You know what...

Get real....

It's how the game of life is played...

Not just in politics...

You can't always get what you want...

You either roll with the flow, take your punches....

Or make freakin' excuses and forever stand on the side lines....

It's Not Fair, Boo Hoo... I'm going home....

[greenohio]

91. I thought this was a discussion board. If we aren't going

to discuss fundamental issues of the party, like, are we going to allow primaries make decisions or the party brass, then what is the point? This is a very appropriate question soon after this stunt. Especially since this isn't the first time it has happened. Hackett was candidate supported by the bloggers. He was undercut. It is very appropriate to post about it. Dean made a statement. It made the AP. I posted it. Its news. You may not want to believe it. But it is discussion worthy nonetheless.

The damage to Browns campaign was done when the skulduggery was done...not because the blogosphere is posting about it.

Those posting to be quiet, don't rock the boat are the infection in the party. Those "Democrats" are the ones who enable the rot. They are the ones who piss off the people who are frustrated by their candidate clearly being undercut.

[John Barrett]

101. You Are Probably Right, But That Doesn't Make It Right

What you say is probably correct about Brown being a long time pol having more of an imbedded support and contributor base. But that doesn't mean he is going to win.

While I'm not from Ohio I do believe that voters all over the USA want fresh credible faces as candidates and not more of the same ole same ole imbedded professional politicians and lifetime party hacks that we see. Being a vet only enhances that position. The Party screwed up by playing games and not following through on their promises.

But if it was up to me I would have someone such as John Murtha as House Democratic leadership instead of Nancy Pelosi. He would be far better at projecting a strong unifying image in the House.

[Catrina]

83. How do you do that when your own party is undercutting you financially?

Please don't assume that because these dirty tricks are acceptable to you, they will be acceptable to people who believe we can have honesty and integrity in government.

You are not offering that. You are offering a tired and jaded view of the political landscape and it's not very attractive. You represent Brown, therefore I have to assume that Brown is not offering honesty and integrity either. The people I know in Ohio or anywhere else, don't share your view that undercutting a fellow Democratis 'just fine' or 'just politics'.

It is YOUR opinion that a man of honor, in order to win a political campaign, should associate himself with tactics and people who are anything but honorable. Most people would not agree with you. You're welcome to live your life that way, but please don't try to force others to agree with you ~ it's jaded and tainted politics like this many would like to see the end of.

Paul Hackett was like a breath of fresh air in a cesspool, (although I thought the cesspool was on the other side). And no amount of your or anyone else's attacks will change any minds about that.

I admire him even more for his unwillingness to let his ego drive his decisions and to step away with dignity from what is looking more and more like gutter politics. And the more you and others defend it, the worse Brown looks unless he himself assures us he does NOT agree with your assessment that stabbing a fellow Democrat in the back is just fine.

[radio4progressives]

86. WC Green, The only way to "stay in the race" is to Run as an Independent

or change parties. You can't stay in the race if the machine directly threatens to dry up your funding source, and they can do it legally.

The only feasable way for Hackett to stay in the race is leave the party.

[greenohio]

5. Heres the link in the blog to the AP story.

http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849&nav=2FH5

[1932]

9. This story appears on dozens of blogs, yet it only appeared on two

TV news stations websites -- one in TX and one in LA.

I'd like to see a better account of what Dean said.

What school was he at in Miami. Maybe the student newspaper has an article about it.

[greenohio]

11. It did appear on non blog sites as I have linked.

Sorry they weren't good enough for you.

[1932]

15. Here's the student paper account of Dean's talk (Hackett not mentioned):

http://www.beaconnewspaper.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticlePrinterFriendly&uStory_id=3bde739d-feeb-4c4e-935b-c601ed2b476e

No mention of Hackett. However, it also looks like Dean talked about illegal immigration in a way that's a little different from the way Hackett talked about it. Dean says we need to be mindful of the contributions of illegal immigrants and says that Mexico doesn't like illegal immigration because, implicitly, they're losing their hardest workers and the US is benefitting from them. Funny that he would talk about illegal immigration that way and then, in the same speech, support Hackett. I'm not saying he didn't do that. But it would be interesting if he did.

[greenohio]

20. I see. You believe the student news paper, but not the AP.

In many cases I would agree with you.

In this case, I would bet that its more that it doesn't fit a world view, rather than whether or not it is true.

[1932]

24. Notice that the student paper's comments on immigration are given

in greater context: you get a longer quote from Dean, and then you get an interview with an audience member who reflects on Dean's comments about immigration. That's helpful.

With the AP reference to Hackett, you get about three of dean's words and then the reporters version of the context. If one were trying to drive a wedge in the left, but didn't have the facts to support that effort, the way you'd write up the story is exactly the way it's reported on all these TV news station websites.

[greenohio]

26. Uh huh. Yup you must be right. Nothing to see here.

Everything was on the up and up. Dean would never believe that the submarine that did him in would do in somebody else.

:sarcasm:

[1932]

28. I'll take the fact that you're not responding to my point...

...as evidence that you're more interested in driving your POV on this story than you are interested in whether the story is accurate.

[greenohio]

31. You had a point?

Oh yeah, that TV stations and the AP are less reliable than the student news paper. A newspaper article that didn't contradict BTW, it just didn't find another state senatorial primary newsworthy to thier students. Because they didn't report it, it must not have happend.

Whatever.

[1932]

34. Notice that the student paper's comments on immigration are given

in greater context: you get a longer quote from Dean, and then you get an interview with an audience member who reflects on Dean's comments about immigration. That's helpful.

With the AP reference to Hackett, you get about three of dean's words and then the reporters version of the context. If one were trying to drive a wedge in the left, but didn't have the facts to support that effort, the way you'd write up the story is exactly the way it's reported on all these TV news station websites.

[greenohio]

35. Keep trying. Sooner or later you'll believe it.

I don't.

[1932]

39. If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't write it.

Yours was an odd comment. Don't you believe what you write?

[greenohio]

51. So you honestly don't believe that Howard Dean said that

Hackett was a victim of skulduggery? You are certain of this?

[formernaderite]

52. It's a FLorida student newspaper

why would they mention anything to do with OHio? While so-called illegal immigration would have a direct impact. Look, they wrote an article, they didn't reprint his whole speech.

[greenohio]

56. Good point....but one that will probably be lost on deaf ears. nt

[greenohio]

18. Heres more

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849
http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849&nav=8H3x
http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=4503849

There are literally dozens that printed this article.

[1932]

22. It's the same short article, with the same out-of-context quote

"some skulduggery in Washington." I'd like to see the full context, and Dean's actual words that followed this quote. And, why are these all TV stations? Why didn't a newspaper write a more detailed article?

[greenohio]

23. Whatever.

You are going to believe whatever you want.

[1932]

25. No. I'm going to believe what the facts support.

If I wasn't there to hear it myself, and if I don't have a copy of what Dean said, I'm not going to trust three out-of-context words in an AP report which has echoed through the blogoshpere to tell me how to feel about the Democratic Party.

I'm funny that way.

[greenohio]

29. Only the facts that fit. You are busy posting on this thread

trying to argue against the facts. TV stations aren't good enough. It has to come from the school newspaper. Whatever.

[1932]

30. Excuse me for asking for the full context of a four-word quote.

[greenohio]

33. Because we don't have the context, it must not be true?

Give me a break.

[1932]

36. With so many eager to use this to drive a wedge in the left, it seems

prudent to ask for all the facts.

Who knows how much of this is driven by the right wing. After all, Brown was the more liberal of the two candidates, especially on key issues like neoliberalism, free trade and workers rights, and Ohio is a key state.

[greenohio]

38. Mother Jones reported on the back room deals....

http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2006/02/hackett_drops_out.html

Are they part of the conspiracy?

[1932]

41. And the Nation had a different perspective. Who's right and who's wrong?

[greenohio]

42. Link please. I haven't read that one. nt

[1932]

44. John Nichols, the Nation's Washington Correspondent, wrote this:

Paul Hackett, who has dropped out of the race for the Democratic U.S. Senate nomination with his usual theatrical flourishes, says he quit the contest because of the pressure he claims he felt from national Democratic bigwigs.

That may well have been a factor in Hackett's decision.

But it appears that an even bigger factor was a poll that showed Hackett trailing far behind his progressive primary opponent, U.S. Representative Sherrod Brown. With the filing deadline for the May Democratic primary rapidly approaching, Hackett was confronted with new numbers from his own pollster, which showed Brown was ahead among likely voters by an almost 2-1 margin -- 46 percent for the congressman to 24 percent for Hackett.

Despite the fact that Hackett had been campaigning for the Senate seat since last fall -- while Brown had been tied up in Washington leading the fight against the Central American Free Trade Agreement and other administration initiatives -- the poll, details of which were obtained by the Cleveland Plain Dealer, revealed that Hackett had made few inroads among Democrats outside his southern Ohio base.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?bid=15&pid=59896

[greenohio]

48. That article does not dispute anything I posted.

It doesn't dispute that Dean claimed skulduggery.
It doesn't dispute there was financial black balling.
It doesn't dispute any of the backroom deals written by mother jones, who, in their article, actually interviewed people.

If Brown was such a shoe-in in the primary, why the skulduggery? Just have the primary. You know, have an election, like democracies do. Why call donors to discourage contributions to a Democrat?

[formernaderite]

53. exactly... since Brown is the stronger candidate, IMO..why the whisper

campaign? Something doesn't smell right. I do feel bad calling Hackett a prima dona for dropping out...although I still don't feel he's the right man for the job. It will be interesting when the facts come out...although, I could also see Hackett being made to shut up.

[greenohio]

54. I am still struggling with that. This may just be the result of the

good ol boy network at play. It was Sherod's turn. Hackett was rocking the boat. But I don't know. The whole thing is fishy.

[1932]

60. Only offering it as example of better, more helpful journalism.

Notice (I'll repeat) the long dean quotes and then asking audience members to interpret them rather than the reporter giving his or her spin?

I also said that it was interesting (but not proof of anything) that the article quotes Dean on immigration -- and he seems to take a position contrary to Hackett's. I said it would be amusing if the AP story's spin that Dean was upset that Hackette was pushed out were accurate, given that Dean would have been presenting a position on immigration different from Hackett's in the same talk.

[greenohio]

63. Are you certain Dean didn't say it?

C'mon now, stop straddling. Do you honestly believe that Howard Dean did not say this?

[1932]

87. Can you read? All I care about is the context. I'd like to see a longer

quote than just four words.

Notice (I'll repeat) that there is a four word quote from Dean, and then the reporter's spin. I don't trust the spin. I want to see the full quote. I want to see the whole idea Dean was trying to convey in Dean's words.

You have to admit that this is a goldmine for people who'd want to divide Democrats and any reasonably thoughtful person should want to base their opinion on this issue on something more than those four words and a reporter's spin.

Please tell me you agree with that.

[Kolesar]

10. this is the only topic you have posted about in the last 2 weeks

[greenohio]

12. I see. Can't argue the point so attack the person.

I have posted on DU on many many topics.

Are you insinuating something? If so, its against the rules.

[Kolesar]

27. and you contribute single-clause posts that manage to span over

a subject line and the message. Kicking a dead horse.

[greenohio]

32. Now my posts aren't long enough?

Is that really the best you can do?

[Kolesar]

37. How does it help the Democratic Party to keep kicking this lame story? eom

[greenohio]

40. Still white washing I see. Your right. The Democratic party doesn't

need primaries. If we would just let the leadership choose our candidates, the party would be much better off.

:sarcasm:

[paulk]

58. the Republicans seem to be better off using that strategy

and the point of general elections is to win .... when a primary would interfere with that goal -
why not avoid it? Hackett was behind in the polls vs. Brown and far, far behind in money raised.

"the party would be better off"

Are you a member of the Democratic Party? Your name "green"ohio might lead one to question this. That and
your penchant for beating this dead horse, which, as another poster points out, can only be divisive at this point.

Why would you want to continue this, especially with an attempt to use Dean to stir the division pot? I would think any
progressive in Ohio would be pleased as punch to have a true progressive like Sherrod Brown representing them.

[greenohio]

62. It just happened this week. Why are you in such a rush

to quiet the discussion? Besides this didn't help Brown. It hurt him.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/State%20Polls/February%202006/Ohio%20Senate%20February.htm

Brown dropped in the polls as a result.

If you cared about Brown, you would be pissed too.

Besides, isn't questioning like that against the rules?

[paulk]

66. if you think it's against the rules, alert it

I think it's a valid question to ask. Which you didn't answer, btw.

Why am I in such a hurry to quiet the discussion? Because it's over and done with - there's no way further discussion can do anything but hurt Brown's campaign.

As you point out with your polls.

Now is the time to get behind Sherrod Brown's campaign and get him elected as Ohio's next Senator.

[Kolesar]

67. Green-O was citing DU rules against me too this morning

:rofl:
edit: 'Cuz I noted that this is the only subject that Green has posted on in the last two weeks!
Believe it or Not!

[greenohio]

76. If this happened this week.....

how did I post on it two weeks ago?

[greenohio]

77. The discussion is not what hurt Browns campaign.

The skulduggery did.

I am a registered Democrat and have been since I was eligible to vote.

[paulk]

88. if the skulduggery hurt Brown, why are you continuing

to beat on this issue?

by your own logic, you are helping to hurt Brown.

-----------

this is a tempest in a teapot

with most of the wind coming from so called "Democrats" like you, greenohio.

and I'm not sure I believe you, btw.

why?

there is only one reason to be flogging this horse

ONE REASON

and that's to divide the Democratic Party in it's support of Sherrod Brown

you, as a "registered dem" or even a "green" one - should be pleased as hell

to have a progressive liberal like Sherrod Brown representing you

why are you fanning the flames of divisiveness?

[greenohio]

89. Democratic leadership counted on you falling in line.

They want you to say. Gosh, I guess skulduggery is just part of the game. I guess I will support whoever they wanted me too.

You are such a good soldier. The DLC would be proud.

[paulk]

94. here it comes...

DLC


Don't you find it kind of .... funny?

is that the word?

Hackett was the DLC candidate.

But, you already knew that?

[greenohio]

95. The leadership assumed that you would say, oh well thank you for choosing

for me the decision was too hard anyway.

And some go right along with it. I really don't mind that. Run around white washing and telling everyone to shut up is wrong however. People are entitled to their opinions. This is a place to express them.

[OzarkDem]

96. Please do us a favor

and vote for DeWine. This is getting unbelievably boring and tiresome. See ya later.

[paulk]

102. it is unfailingly a characteristic of poster's like yourself

to resort to personal attacks

when your arguments are revealed as hollow

usually these attacks take the form of denigrating the intelligence of your opponent

accusing them of being a DLC dupe, etc.

accusing them of an inability to think for themselves, etc.

----------------

everyone is entitled to their opinion, true

my opinion is that continuing to beat on this subject can only hurt Sherrod Brown's campaign

and that your motives for doing this are questionable

at best.

[greenohio]

103. I want to understand this.

In your post you said I resort to personal attacks. And then you proceed to question my motives.

Whatever. You just tow the party line paulk. It is apparently what you're here to do...and to attack anyone upset by the submarine of excellent Dem candidate.

[paulk]

105. I am here to help Democrats get elected

and to point out where others on this board are working against that goal.

[greenohio]

107. Democrats...except Hackett that is.

You'd like to pretend he never existed.

[paulk]

109. Hackett isn't running

he dropped out of the race.


And that IS the point of this whole discussion.

Hackett ISN'T running

your attempts to stir up this shit can only hurt the Democrat who IS.

[greenohio]

110. You seem happy about that.

I'm not.

Hackett isn't running because the party machinery is running business as usual.

It is sad. Hackett is a good Dem, a good man, and fine marine. And he was shot by friendly fire.

Hackett was supported here on DU. He was supported by bloggers in general. Its like one of our own took a bullet, shot by somebody on our team.

It is really sad. Even more sad, that you don't care.

[LincolnMcGrath]

108. Apparently you have missed some of the 'DLC defenders' posts

here on DU.

[PassingFair]

112. A cartoon for you, Mr. McGrath:

One of my favorites, in lieu of a late valentine:



:hi:

[Kukesa]

111. Well said, paulk, well said. nt

[greenohio]

92. I am not trying to hurt Brown. The skulduggery did that.

But we need a discussion about how we are going to handle primaries. Is skulduggery going to be business as usual in the Democratic party come primary time? Is financial black ball going to be the way we want to choose candidates? Do we want the Dem Leadership choosing our candidates or the primaries?

If we just take whatever underhandedness happens, and BURY the news stories about it, we are encouraging the behavior. Do we want more of this garbage or less? There are those who seem to kinda like it. The accept it. The think that it is acceptable and we all should just fall in line. I disagree. This stuff needs a light shined on it.

[OzarkDem]

97. Go away, please

[greenohio]

99. I started the thread. It was you who replied. You go away.

[Kolesar]

65. "Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day" -- Harry Truman

I think it's time to quit kicking this hot, fresh, thread.

[greenohio]

70. I see. So the story is too fresh to discuss.

We need to wait to get perspecive?

[Glowdine]

14. That is really, REALLY lousy...........n/t

:thumbsdown:

[Kolesar]

43. Give Hackett some credit already

for having a thick skin and a level head. From the article you referenced:

"I know there were calls to potential donors; people told me," Hackett said. "But that's OK. This is a big boy's game. I'm not crying in my soup over it."

[greenohio]

45. Do you think Dem Leadership should choose the candidates or a primary?

That is what this is about.

[Kolesar]

47. Says you

but you are stretching to make that the arguement.

[greenohio]

49. I think you had a point there, but I missed it. nt

[greenohio]

57. You never did answer the question.

Who should choose the candidate?

[OzarkDem]

79. I'd rather see Dean's own words, thanks very much

I'm sure Rove and AP couldn't pass up an opportunity to keep this faux scandal going.

[greenohio]

93. "Skulduggery "was his own word.

I wish I had the transcript. If anybody had it please post it. I don't. All I have is the snippet the AP posted.

[Kolesar]

98. Still self-pleasuring yourself by stimulating your own thread, I see

[greenohio]

104. So you posting on my thread, is you pleasuring me.

I've had better.