I hope I don't get slammed here but...

[DianeK]

I have been thinking alot about how we turn this whole thing around...we have lost habeas corpus! Wow! This is a very, very dark day. We need to somehow turn this around and I am beginning to believe it will not happen in my lifetime.

I am thinking that the only way we can begin to turn it around is if the democrats and the real conservatives of the republican party unite. I know how extreme this may sound to some, but I happen to know many republicans and they are reasonably thinking people who are very disappointed in their own party. I wonder if anyone else has given this any thought. I am afraid before all is said and done it will come to a revolution because once you give up any part of your power it generally takes a fight to get it back and we just lost a whole bunch of our power with the loss of habeas corpus.

[patrice]

1. Not only have we lost habeas corpus, we are also being spied on.

Watch what you say. It could cause you to disappear.

[photogirl12]

8. Big Brother is watching

George Orwell was only a couple of decades off. Scary to say that it is true!

[Warpy]

16. This is the time we HAVE to say what we think and say it LOUDLY

because they can take our rights ONLY with our permission.

I don't intend to give those bastards my permission, and if they try to disappear me, they will find some of their number badly damaged in the process.

Don't forget Lincoln also tried to suspend habeas corpus and had to back down before the case got to the USSC.

If people want to be scared little rabbits, afraid of speaking a word of truth, that's THEIR problem. I hope they enjoy the loss of their rights, because that is the only way those rights can truly be taken away.

[bdamomma]

19. but again, what was the response of so many people

"I have nothing to hide" that response is going to bite a lot of people on the ass.

[ieoeja]

21. We are not being spied upon. However....

"Metra is still in a heightened state of security. Remember: if you see something, say something. Together we can make everyone safer."



That is very close to a verbatim quote of the message I hear every night on the train. I especially like that, "if you see something, say something". Just a taaaaad bit Orwellian there, eh?

[BOSSHOG]

2. I believe it would be a civil war and I'm all for it

I don't believe we have lost habeas corpus. It has just been misplaced and in 2009 the democratic president will restore it (if the supreme court doesn't do that before hand.)

[whistle]

3. Think of what this means people, Bush has the power to arrest

...any democrat and keep them detained forever without filing formal charges or appearing before a judge to show cause. With power like that, who needs to rig the Nov 7 vote counts?

[kestrel91316]

17. We ALL need to keep speaking out loudly against Bush and

his fascist buddies. They can't lock us ALL up - millions of us?? They can't even come close.

I am willing to stick my neck out, keep speaking out, and risk arrest and detention for the sake of my country. We can overwhelm them. All they can do is make examples of a token few, but we'll call their bluff and refuse to be intimidated.

GIVE ME LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH. I will never shut up.

[Bake]

4. We just need to get our message out loud and long

And the "thinking" conservatives may come to see the truth of it and join us. I'm all for agreement where possible, but not for compromising our core principles.

OK, I just thought about that. I support Harold Ford for Senate in TN, and he's compromised some core principles ... BUT OVERALL he's OK.

So let me change that last sentence, first paragraph: "but not for compromising core principles TOO MUCH."

Bake

[jhrobbins]

5. I know a bunch of folks here are gonna scream and yell at you..

but I think that desperate times call for desperate measures. I would like to return to a time that I have read about where Democrats and Republicans didn't hate each other and were able to look above or past the political stuff and meet on neutral ground. I have friends (and I have felt this way at times too) that hate Republicans and swear that they will never knowingly have Republican friends. I have said this and would like to think that I am a bigger person if the Republican is as well and would be able to meet on some common ground for the common good. I truly think that this admionistration has been the genesis of the most polarized political and social landscape that we have ever had (at least in my lifetime). I don't think that their agenda is to garner consensus, but to reign as autocrats. We need to remove this administration as a first move.

[bloom]

9. I think it's about 30% of the people

or about 2/3 of the Republicans who buy the stupid line and who are polarized against us.

I don't write off all Republicans. It is interesting to me that it is the older Republicans (of my family) who are able to see past the crap. They watch less FOX news and listen to less stupid radio, too.

It would be bad if that was the case across the board and that when the the older Republicans pass away that the younger ones continue to be idiots.

[nickinSTL]

6. Talent in MO has been trying to use habeas corpus

against McCaskill.

He's defined habeas corpus as the ability of a terror suspect to sue their captors.

I admit to not being up on habeas corpus and its legal ramifications, but...:wtf:

[Karmageddon]

7. Losing Habeas Corpus is not a Dem/Rep thing or a lib/cons thing....

It's an American thing. It's a "Human" thing. It's an assault on the very fabric upon which this nation was founded. It is a full-on frontal attack on the principles of law set out by the founding fathers. It is nothing short of a willful dismantling of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - those things which bush swore on a bible to "defend and uphold" when he took his oath of office.

This is something which all thinking Americans of all stripe and persuasion should unite. This should be seen by conservatives and liberals alike as an assault on our freedoms, as an attack on our very nation. There is no reason why we should hesitate to unite with them to take our country back. The republican party is no longer run by conservatives. Even "real" conservatives are finally starting to realize this. The people in charge are anything but conservative, and anything but American. And they must be stopped.

[DianeK]

10. agree 100%

habeas corpus is a basic guarantee of personal freedom and it predates the bill of rights. In fact the constitution says that no person can be denied habeas corpus except in times of public danger or when martial law is in force and then it can only be suspended. This is not Kansas anymore, I fear.

[Demit]

12. Quite right, that. It is an AMERICAN thing. Republicans should be able to

get behind that. We ALL should be screaming it from the rooftops, how terrible this is. Or writing letter after letter to newspapers, anyway.

And I like your user name.

[MADem]

11. Why would you think you'd get "slammed" for discussing a topic of

extreme import to all Americans, regardless of political affiliation?

This isn't that idiotic mouth-breathing political website, after all.

[DianeK]

13. well..

there have been times I have written about my support of some independents and found people taking exception to it as this site is Democratic Underground

[MADem]

20. That's a different issue entirely. If you want to stump for a candidate

who isn't a Democrat, you need to do that elsewhere, because this website advocates election of DEMOCRATS first and foremost. But discussion of an IDEA or a policy isn't constrained here, and never has been.

[Kagemusha]

14. Perspective: It was bad in the Alien & Sedition Acts days too

The country survived and recovered - and repudiated those acts and made them legendary for being bad laws abusing the spirit of the Constitution. It's by no means an automatic process but, it can be done. Keep in mind that the outcry against Bush abuses is so low because he has made such a big deal out of pretending to only apply these powers towards terrorists. Even his current low level of public support would look generous if Bush was widely believed to be stripping habeas corupus from innocent, non-terrorist American citizens. Yes, Bush has new powers on paper, but using them carries political risk - and Bush has stripped other branches of government of power, so Bush carries sole responsibility now.

As I've said before though, the administration was acting upon its self-perceived right to ignore habeas corpus in the case of citizen enemy combattants for years (take the Padilla case). The only thing that changed is Congress saying it, too, believes the administration is correct in this view.

[tularetom]

15. Perhaps a Dem will be elected unitary chief executive

in 08 and will declare Jabba the Falwell and Robertson "enemy combatants" and have them whisked off to an undisclosed location and follow that up with Limpballs, O'Lielly, Insanity, and the whole MSM that eanabled this fucking lunacy in the first place. I exempt * Cheney and Rummy because I think they will have other issues to deal with after leaving office (in Europe).

[Sinti]

18. Those "real conservatives" old style republicans are already with you

I talk to them, on occasion. I live in Idaho, one of the reddest states on the map, and NO ONE seems to love Little Boots. OTOH, I can't seem to find anyone who voted for him in 2004, or will admit to it (maybe they lie). It's not a crazy idea, and no one should bash you for it, IMO. Back in the day you could argue about the best way to get to a better America with a puke, but we all wanted to get to the same better America. We need to get back to reason, and responsibility for our fellow citizens - rather than the few richie-riches at the very top.