I would like to see the well-balanced ticket of Clark/Obama

[Patiod]

We were talking about this on another thread:

Youth and experience, charisma and gravitas, both great Progressive thinkers, world view oriented (as opposed to parochial), clear thinking, plain-spoken, and intelligent.

All this ticket lacks is (edit): someone with two X chromosomes!

[emulatorloo]

1. Besides the Y chromosome, It also lacks Clark as he is not running

I would really like to see the General run, But so far it hasn't happened.

[Bucky]

14. not running YET

hasn't happened YET

[rocktivity]

2. I think it's the best-balanced

most qualified, least corporate media-dependent, and most important, most Rethug-proof ticket we've got.

:headbang:
rocknation

[k_jerome]

3. lol. it was Simon & Garfunkel, not Garfunkel & Simon. nt.

[Clark2008]

31. So you would have the senator as commander in chief and the

former commander in chief as the head of the senate?

That makes no sense. :crazy:

[FightingIrish]

4. Perfect balance - Zero baggage

That really would be a fresh start for America.

[Solo_in_MD]

5. No baggage

Clark is an easy target for the Repukes...if he was not, he would be running.

[Schema Thing]

6. Clark is the republican's worst nightmare.

And I'll bet you a dollar he is running.

[Schema Thing]

7. I think it would be 16 years of Democratic leadership

And real leadership at that.


And both of them got it right on Iraq. There is no excuse for any democrat to vote for those who did not get it right on Iraq, at least in the primary. NONE.

[Auntie Bush]

12. Yes he's going to run and must be making definite plans as we speak.

Why else would the DNC let him on stage to speak the other day?
Because he wasn't running?
Those behind the scene...like Dean...know he's planning on running and that can't be soon enough for me!

[Flying Dream Blues]

10. Why do you think Clark is an easy target? nt

[Patiod]

15. This is how they Swiftboated him last time

Total bullshit, but it seemed to stick.

Quickly debunked here and here, but neither smack-down had the staying power of the original smear.

[Bucky]

16. They attempted to smear him in 04 before his numbers faded. So yes, he's a target.

Clark will be attacked for (1) being callous to war crimes because he, (2) palled around with Serbian war criminals while negotiating the final cease fire in Kosovo, (3) getting fired from Nato command for "character issues" (and I defy you to name a single Democratic candidate who has not been attacked for character issues), and (4) they'll probably dredge some shit up about his consulting business since he left the service.

Oh, there's also one quote out there that suggests Clark was for the Iraq invasion despite his long record of opposing it. Clark's too wonky to not discuss issues of substance when it comes to policy development. The downside of dealing with the substantive matters of government is that your words can easily be twisted. That's why Republicans keep running pols who believe in governing by advertising slogans and soundbites. Clark really doesn't fit that mold well at all.

Can Clark be smeared? Hell yes. Anyone can. The difference with Clark is that he fights back.

[Patiod]

11. Need to be able to counter the "Whitewatering" of Kosovo

Last time around, The New Yorker (of all places) published a nasty hit piece by the conservative hit man Peter Boyer, the guy who was also behind the Whitewater "story".

Basically, the entire piece relied on nothing but the word of his strategy rivals Bill Cohen, Tommy Franks and Hugh Shelton, without a single word from supporters Madeline Albright, Richard Holbrooke, or Bill Clinton.

Although Boyer's hit piece was nicely debunked by The American Prospect, far more people read the accusations than read the rebuttal.

This is the main thing the Republican "have" on Clark - the ability to twist his successful record and make it sound bumbling or overly-aggressive or whatever other distortion they wish to perpetrate.

[FrenchieCat]

22. Here's a lot of information for defense here

specifically on the New Yorker Peter Boyer piece...
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/01/the_new_yorkers_general_clarks.html

also on the Clark's true record and the "integrity" smear
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/01/gen_clarks_band_of_brass_opini.html
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2006/10/the_early_departure.html
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2006/11/wes_clark_wanted_boots_on_the.html

and in reference to twisting his testimony
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2006/12/what_wes_clark_said_prior_to_t.html
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2006/12/the_iraq_war_resolution_did_cl.html

If you go to the site's main page and look under categories at the right margin....you will see more information....and more is being added on some of this stuff.

[Patiod]

25. I was happy with the rebuttal

in Slate the same week the New Yorker article appeared, and The American Prospect. Just mad that most people read the New Yorker profile without ever seeing the piece in Slate.

As a huge Clarkie, I would never post a stupid smear without posting the rebuttal. But it's important to be aware of what lying shits like Boyer have published in the past, and what they will publish in the future if Clark is part of a team.

[nuxvomica]

8. Not to nitpick, but there are two Y chromosomes on that ticket

I suspect there may have been three or four on the Bush-Cheney ticket.

[Fovea]

9. A joy of being a Dem facing the 08 election.

We have so many good potential matchups.

Now compare and contrast the Pugs...

JEB/Giuliani
Guiliani/Kerek
Brownback/? who'd run with him... Inhofe...Phelps?
McCain/Lieberman -- the bushleague candidates

The only pug team I think could get an unbought vote might be
a Specter/Snowe ticket. But it would not energize the southern GOP much.

On our side, there are so many great possiblities.

Gore/any bipedal mammal-- perhaps Clinton... i like the symmetry
Edwards/Clark
Obama/Sebelius
Clark/Kooch
Kooch/Webb -- this or the above would make a dept of peace a reality, IMO.

And don't stop here, It is like that kids game where you mix and match clothes made of plastic on a flat manniquin. Only our clothes look good
en ensemble.

[Patiod]

13. Many good points there, realpolitik!

Although Specter's health condition makes Cheney look positively robust (we here in PA have followed all the various "fatal" illnesses that he miraculously beat, God bless him), and Webb, who I believe to be a man of his word, has vowed not to run in '08 in order to complete his term in the Senate. Although, DAMN he was eloquent after the State of the Nation.

Like the "Gore/any bipedal mammal" ticket too!

[OHdem10]

20. Can we all agree

There is no candidate alive whom the Republicans cannpt
find a way to smear.

We have to put up Candidates who are tough enough to not
listen to their "Centrist" Handlers and fight back. Tough
enough to ignore the Media and fight back.

MCCain --Brownbeck ticket might be a strong ticket according
to Chuck Todd at Hotline. Republicans look at their Candidates
through a prism different from ours. Brownbeck is a true
Cultural Conservative and is liked by the RW and Reilgious
right.

Has anyone noticed how in our primary going on right now
the Media goes after anyone who says anything critical
about certain candidates> This will not last. It is
laughable.

[Fovea]

26. Well, ok, they will keep trying to smear us.

I have always believed that when you are lying face down in the gutter, bleeding from every oriface north of the beltline, that you should stop rubbing dogshit on your assailant's shoes. But as you say, the pugs think differently.

As a Kansan, I wouldn't piss on Brownback to put him out in a case of spontanious combustion.
And I am not alone in that assessment. Sam represents the embarrassing parts of Kansas. I think
the traditional snake-handling support for pugs is broken.

Christians seem to have decided that Phelps does not speak for them here and neither does Brownback, I suspect.
I think McCain is a zomby candidate. He lurches foreward, but only to have the voters look at him and put a metaphoric bullet
right between his eyes once he sounds like Bush.

Yes, they will probably keep trying, but the press is harder to keep on the reservation, and the return of the revenge of the son of fairness in broadcasting will only deepen that problem for the pugs, IMO.

[phillysuse]

17. Probably the classiest two potential First Ladies

Gertrude Kingston Clark and
Michelle Robinson Obama.

Both photogenic, bright and beautiful.

Elizabeth Edwards comes close and so does Bill Clinton.

[Bucky]

18. Bill Clinton, bear in mind, would be First Husband, not First Lady

But the idea of rotating any nuclear family back into office still makes the small-d democrat in me nervous.

[question everything]

19. "charisma and gravitas"

usually do not like to be shared.

You cannot have two candidates, supposedly working as a team both with "charisma and gravitas"

[seabeyond]

21. i like this ticket. n/t

[Bullet1987]

24. Switch it...

...to Obama/Clark. Because as of right now the soldier isn't scaring anybody.

[seabeyond]

28. i dont want to. i prefer clark as president. and as far as scaring anyone

kerry seemed to have done the very best of it, ... and look what it got him.

[ShortnFiery]

23. Yes, I could support that team!

:patriot: :applause:

[earthlover]

27. perfect!

Clark/Obama or Obama/Clark. Win/Win. 400-500 electoral votes.

[Ninja Jordan]

29. There's pretty much no way in hades Clark is beating Obama in the primaries

I'm not convinced Clark is actually running.

[FrenchieCat]

30. All will come in good time.....

as a primary normally has more than one person in it.

I welcome a variety of voices, and believe that Wes Clark in the race, helps Obama rather than hurts him.

As you know the minority vote (women, Blacks & Hispanics) is being split by the three minority candidates that are running, 2 who are in the top tier...the other, who might just get there. That leaves John Edwards standing as the only WASP southern male as a top contender. In my opinion, based on the raw numbers analyzed logically, Edwards wins by default. Now, include Wes in the game, and he takes away votes from Southern White Guy Edwards and Foreign policy experienced Richardson. He really doesn't take away Obama votes...because those voting for Obama are doing it for reasons that have nothing to do with Wes Clark.

So, whatever Clark does, Obama stands to gain more from it than to lose.

[Ninja Jordan]

33. Interesting observation.

[Adelante]

32. I'm never comfortable with talking about a presidential

candidate as a VP, because I don't like it when it happens to mine. It would be a good ticket, though, I'd say, if it ever happened.

[earthlover]

34. nobody runs for VP

The VP thing is an interesting game, but it really is theoretical at best. Best way to disrespect a candidate for Pres is say he is a good candidate for VP.

Clark/Obama or Obama/Clark. Well, I like Clark/Obama better. And, if Clark got the nomination, THEN would be the time to discuss VP. The pairing Obama/Clark would be very appealing. If Obama announced it now...and the two campaigned as a pair during the primaries, they could pull it off I believe. But that is not likely to happen either. Nobody wants to run for VP!

I don't know if I agree with the analysis that Clark and Obama don't hurt each other. I do believe both take votes away from Hillary.

I believe that with Clark, Obama, Edwards and H Clinton in the race it would be an interesting race assuming everyone gets a chance to get their message across to the voters in the primaries. I'm sorry, but at this point, I can't predict a winner. And Gore is a potential wildcard, and I give him a 60/40 chance of entering the fray.