Where the hell is the outrage from Democrats...

[oldtimecanuk]

With respect to the two Border Guards that are in prison.... Why have no Democrats come forward on this... this is an outrage.... One of the Guards was beaten severely in prison over the weekend. Not one Democrat has stood up on this issue. Home Land Security lied to congress with respect to this case....

ww

[Frustratedlady]

1. Dobbs just had a blistering report on the lies and coverups

On Congressman threatened impeachment if they didn't get some answers and Bush is ignoring the whole situation. CNN is waiting for a transcript to the "trial" but who knows when they will receive that. He is after Homeland Security, big time.

[oldtimecanuk]

7. Link #3

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,248705,00.html

ww

[dogman]

2. Is there another side to this story?

I've only seen Dobbs and some extreme RWers show concern.

[oldtimecanuk]

3. Yep, and the Congressman that threatened Impeachment...

Is a Republican, so what does that say? Again, I ask where the hell are all of the Democrats on this issue.... This is absolute Bullshit....

ww

[Penndems]

16. Dana Rohrabacher, Republican, 46th District of California

We were watching Lou Dobbs' show, and couldn't believe that Rohrabacher came out and called for Bush's impeachment. Where the hell has he been the last five years?

This entire incident with these two Border Patrol officers is an absolute disgrace, and now we find out that DHS lied to Congress about the findings. Their report wasn't even finished, and these two men were sent to prison, based on a non-existent, "conclusive" account. Where is the outrage here?

I am extremely concerned that if Agents Ramos and Compean aren't released soon, they're gonna be killed in prison, thanks to the indifference and deceit of this Administration. George W. Bush has got to be the most bloodthirsty sumbitch to occupy the Oval Office in my entire fifty-two years of life on this planet.

[unlawflcombatnt]

42. I agree

I, too, wonder where the Democrats are.

And if we can get Republicans interested in impeaching Bush, we might really get something going.

[MADem]

4. It would be helpful if you could get some links together, grab some snips from them, and

give those who aren't up on the situation a little synopsis. That might aid discussion of the matter. All I know is that Lou is on this, and Lou alone. Thus far, anyway.

What do you know about it? Give us a summary, some links, it would be helpful.

[oldtimecanuk]

5. Yep, I can give you all kinds of links....... Lets begin...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/16637357.htm

ww

[oldtimecanuk]

6. Link # 2....

http://www.grassfire.org/142/petition.asp?RID=8445030

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[elehhhhna]

8. Look, law enforcement should not shoot unarmed, fleeing people

in the ass and not even report they've fired their weapon.

The BP guys messed up, bad, and their sentences seem extreme to me, but the precedent of allowing uniformed Fed or State employees to fire freely would be unwelcome.

[oldtimecanuk]

11. There's more to this case than shooting a drug smuggler in the ..

ass, that none of us know yet.... This guy was fleeing back across the border and was ordered to halt.. he did'nt and got shot in the ass. Yes, these guys may have been guilty of not reporting the instant correctly, but 11 and 12 year prison sentences is total Bullshit. Once again I ask, where the hell are the Democratic Congress Criters on this injustice. If someone is pointing what appears to be a gun at me, it's him or me IMHO...

ww

[elehhhhna]

24. What part of "unarmed, running away" do you not understand?

Had they filed the report and not lied, they'd never have been tried.

[oldtimecanuk]

28. No, No, No.. You missed something... They did'nt know that..

the guy was'nt armed, because he put up his arm and pointed at them as if he were armed.... The guy should have been shot in the head instead of the ass and this whole thing would have gone away... He is a scum sucking drug smuggler.. end of story...

ww

[DebJ]

53. I agree!!! n/t

[dogman]

9. Did they shoot at an unarmed man?

What lies were told about them?

[oldtimecanuk]

10. When they shot the drug smugler, they did'nt....

know at the time that he was unarmed, and apparently he pointed his finger as though he was armed....

This guy was given immunity to testify against the two border guards, and not two weeks later was again arrested for smuggling more drugs into the US and given immunity on that charge.

ww

[Tempest]

12. You're ignoring one important factor

The agent LIED about the shooting as well.

Fuck 'em.

From your own cite:

An investigation found that the agents had attempted to dispose of empty shell casings and had filed a false report.

[oldtimecanuk]

13. I see, so you think that they deserve 11 and 12 ....

years for lying.... Fuck, what about every POS in the White House then? They should all be on death row if that's your logic..... And why did The Department of HomeLand Security lie to Congress about this case. They tried these guys before their report had even been made available.

ww

[Tempest]

14. According to you, they didn't deserve any prison time

At least that's the message coming across from your original post.


And 11 years doesn't sound out of line for the use of excessive violence under the color of authority, an illegal shooting, tampering with evidence and filing a false report.

[oldtimecanuk]

15. They absolutely did not deserve prison time..... Thats a given

These two guards had never had any problems in their long careers... In fact one of them, (don't remember which one) was up for an award for his great service. Even their boss has stated that this is Bullshit.... Fine, if they want to fire them but prision, I think not...

ww

[oldtimecanuk]

17. In most any other country in the world, the guy would have...

been shot dead on the spot for fleeing when told to stop..... And they would have had the full backing of their respective Governments.

ww

[Tempest]

19. Is that the kind of country you want to live in?

You won't find anyone agreeing with you on that.

[Tempest]

18. Let me get this straight

According to you anyone in uniform has the right to shoot anyone, cover up the incident, lie about the incident and file a false report about the incident and get away with it.

Amazing.


Good luck on your crusade. I wouldn't expect a lot of support from anyone outside of the freepers and Minutemen.


As a matter of fact, I used to work with Border Patrol when they were under INS and most of the agents I still stay in contact with say the guys fucked up. Most showed no sympathy for the agents, especially the level you're showing. Makes me wonder what your motivation is.

[oldtimecanuk]

23. Absolutely... If I charged with the roll of guarding the border...

and I have someone fleeing back across the border when I have clearly ordered him/her to stop, there fucking dead right now.... They are illegal alliens, and that the bottom line.

ww

[quido]

26. RACISM

The Dems not speaking up are RACISTS because both agents are HISPANIC. We cant let the RETHUGS look like they care more about them than we do !!!

[KingFlorez]

29. Enjoy your stay

You won't be around here long

[oldtimecanuk]

35. Why would you make a statement like that?

Because I am very passonite about this topic? If that is the way the mods run this form, I don't want to be here anyway..... This form should be about open discussion with opinions, and if not.. oh well.

ww

[KingFlorez]

39. I was responding to another poster

[dogman]

31. If you were in the Armed service in a war zone and did that,

You would likely find yourself breaking big rocks in to little rocks. A weapon and authority are not a license to kill anywhere. One of the reasons I am skeptical of this whole issue is the common rhetoric of those concerned about the agents. The words illegal aliens seems to pop up as if that excuses any possible crime they may have committed.

[oasis]

52. In that case,you'd be doing jail time with your 2 border patrol buddies.

And rightly so.

[Tempest]

21. I'm betting you don't think these cops deserve prison time either

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2721608

[dogman]

20. Yes every POS in the White House should be prosecuted.

And Rohrbacher and Hunter have no problem with all of the fine service men and women that this White House has killed through deception. It looks like this incident is being investigated.

[KingFlorez]

22. They still committed a crime

Shooting an unarmed individual and then lying about it is wrong. There is no excuse.

[oldtimecanuk]

25. It may have been excessive, but the prison time is unreal...

Yep, they screwed up, but to me that requires them being fired and possible probabtion. Now keep in mind once again, that this same perp. was caught again smuggling drugs across the border, and once again was given immunity... So what the hell is going on with that?

ww

[quido]

27. Imunity?????

I smell a PAYOFF !!

[oldtimecanuk]

32. As I said before, there's something going on with this case...

that we don't know about. Why did that prosecutor rush this trial thru before the report from HLS was even made available. This case smells big time to me...... Maybe we will yet see what comes of it, I hope.

ww

[KingFlorez]

33. The sentences fit the crime

[trayfoot]

34. I totally agree with you, canuk!

I have written Dean, Pelosi, Reid, and Senator Webb about their silence on this case. Have not received any replies yet. If they broke policy/procedure, then they should be disciplined. But prison time is ludicrous, considering the fact that this ILLEGAL ALIEN was a DRUG SMUGGLER! Dems need to use some common sense and grow a backbone!

[KingFlorez]

36. The key factor is, they lied and tried to cover it up

[alarimer]

47. They fucking deserve what they got

Let them rot in prison. They covered up what they did which is at least as bad as the crime. Why some people worship at the feet of cops of any sort is beyond me.

[TankLV]

45. Ya got that right. Aparently, it's a hard concept for some.

These are not some "innocent" guards.

The sentence is just and they are lucky it's not more...

I'll save my time and energy on people more deserving of sympathy and concern...

[fuzzyball]

30. K & R

[sampsonblk]

37. What they did was illegal and wrong

The jails are full of people more deserving of sympathy.

[oldtimecanuk]

38. People lie and try to cover up all the time... most don't go to

prison for 11 and 12 years.... That is just ludicrisous...

ww

[Tempest]

40. The difference is

They don't lie and cover up a shooting.

Despite what you believe, and you made it clear what you believe, we live in a nation of laws.

And despite the fact that you advocate the shooting of unarmed UNACCUSED people, law was served in this case.


Now if you really want to be able to shoot innocent until proven guilty people and get away with it (which is EXACTLY what you said earlier), I recommend you move to third world shithole.

[oldtimecanuk]

43. I think you missed something in your post...

The agents testified that they did not know that the fleeing individual was unarmed, he raised his arm and pointed at them as if he had a weapon. You can agru that point all you like, but as far as I am concerned, they were within their rights.... The only mistake they made was not reporting what they did, and I still maintain that 11 and 12 years is BS.

ww

[Colobo]

41. The agents violated the law

and they are in jail. End of the story.

[oldtimecanuk]

44. It's not anywhere near the end of the story, and that was the..

whole point of this thread.... There will be some big time problems coming up, because Department of Homeland Security lied to Congress on this case, which was admitted today.... We will see where this goes.

ww

[Robson]

46. Vicente Fox

Are you saying then the illegal drug runner should be running free and the border patrol agents should be incarcerated. I don't think so. This scenario rings as a setup by Bush, DHS to the benefit of his good buddy Vicente Fox.

[Evergreen Emerald]

48. when we entrust people to have the power of the state behind them

We better make damn sure they will not abuse that power. I am concerned that the reason for the outrage is steeped in racism. They shot a man in the back who was running away. And then, they lied about it. They committed two crimes one with a deadly weapon. I am outraged at the outrage.

[Bullet1987]

49. Dobbs is not Far-Right

I've only seen Dobbs and some extreme RWers show concern.

Dobbs is a populist who has criticized the Bush Administration moreso than any other person on TV (aside from maybe Keith Olbermann).

[FredScuttle]

50. He's a "populist" who's been lying and smearing Speaker Pelosi all week

Oh, and he's not too fond of our neighbors to the south.

Fuck Lou Dobbs.

[Robson]

51. Decided to delete

Decided to delete as it was off topic