Anyone who says that the GOP wants Hillary to run...

[joshcryer]

...because it would "bring out the GOP voters in record numbers" and considers that a negative thing seriously needs to check out what democracy means.

I'm tired of people saying this over and over again all over these forums.

EVEN IF TRUE IT WOULD NOT BE A BAD THING. America has one of the lowest turnout of voters in western countries. We are a freaking disgrace. If Hillary (or anyone for that matter) can bring out the voters in droves, then GOOD ON THEM.

[illinoisprogressive]

1. Maybe because she could not bring dems out in full force.

She has her true believers but, quite a few dems do not like her and would stay home. It would be a hold the nose vote and with those, people don't go out of their way to vote.
If it was someone who excited people they would go out of their way.

[joshcryer]

2. If she doesn't succeed in bringing out more democratic party voters...

...that is her failure, not the GOP's success! That's the point. I'm not even sure she'll be nominated (I'm waiting for Gore personally; my only reason for backing Hillary is the comedic gold that it would provide). But if anyone, anywhere, really believes more voters are a bad thing, then they ought to work on bringing out even more voters themselves to equal the playing field.

[Laurab]

3. I think it WOULD be a bad thing

yes we want a big voter turnout, but I, for one, don't want a big REPUKE turnout. I do consider that a negative thing. I'm not so sure Hillary would spark a big DEM turnout, which is what I'd like to see.

I know exactly what democracy means, and I'd like to have it back, thank you.

[joshcryer]

4. Then you, Laurab, do not understand democracy.

Democracy works good in theory, and I fully believe there are many more Democratic voters out there than Republican. The key is that if people aren't willing to get the vote out, then they might as well be considered complicit in the government that they have.

[RC]

5. I don't want what you are smokin'...

A big voter turnout of repugs would be the total end for this country as a desirable place to live.
Take a look at what is running our government. You are advocating more of what we had for the last 6 years.
No thanks.

[joshcryer]

7. I am advocating a consistant view of democracy.

Not one where "only my candidate is acceptable." That's the GOP approach. Messing up voter tallys, denying people access to booths, LYING to keep people from coming out to vote.

I believe democracy can work. The question is whether or not people have the balls to stand behind a democratic candidate regardless of who they wind up being. The weakness isn't GOP voter turnout, in any scenario. The weakness is infighting and bickering and not voting.

[Laurab]

16. I think you're mistaken

I understand democracy quite well. I also understand that we should run a candidate that will bring out democratic voters, as well as undecideds, and even reach over to the other party's disgusted voters. Hillary is not that candidate.

I WANT to get the vote out, but not for the party that has driven us to ruin.

Although Hillary has done nothing to deserve it, she is as hated by the right as bush is hated by the left. I don't understand it, but it's fact. If we want to save our democracy, we need to get power away from the party that is taking it away from us, and destroying our country.

Running a candidate that will almost certainly "get out the vote" for the other party, is not the way to do it.

[joshcryer]

20. If you understood democracy...

...you'd know that "shoulds" and "woulds" and "maybes" are all heresay. The people decide. If the people decide to run Hillary that may be an amazing achievement or a spectacular blunder.

But the idea that "more GOP voter turnout" would occur should only motivate those who believe this to be the case to actually go and get the vote out.

[Laurab]

30. Ok, I don't understand it, you win

It's too important an election for an experiment that could be so costly.

I know that I don't want a repuke president, so, you're right, i don't understand democracy, and this is really a waste of time, so you can argue with someone who understands democracy like you do. I quit.

[ktlyon]

37. Don't be afraid to stand up for what you think.

You made a good point.
Thanks for posting.

[ktlyon]

36. Hillary has almost 2 years to get people used to the idea of a

women in the White House. Also she seems to be locking up all the money thru the DLC. She will be a formidable opponent to Dems and Republics. Republics are losing support all around this country. The scandals and law violations will be a constant background, that will follow the Republics down the road. The people are waking up, I think.

[Bukowski Fan]

6. A philosophy I've had in the GOTVs that I've run

and participated in has been:

It's not like we want to stop our opponent's supporters from coming out and voting, but we sure as hell aren't going to encourage them and remind them to vote.

As was stated above, I do feel that a Hillary candidacy will encourage more Republicans to vote, and might inhibit some Democratic apathy, especially in the case of inclement weather and long lines. However, I will not be voting for her for reasons of principle. To me, it's more a matter of her voting record in the Senate (IWR, FBA, etc) as well as the barrage of dirt that will come back from the Clinton years. I think it's time for a fresh face and a candidate who can really win across the spectrum, especially the Western states. Not a political insider with numerous inside-the-beltway connections and relationships.

[joshcryer]

8. If she has the nomination you wouldn't vote for her?

I find that interesting.

In an case, I'm not here to defend Hillary, I'm trying to attack the idea that "I don't want those other guys to vote."

That's a really repuslive POV to me, it really is. That's how THEY act. By telling black people they can't vote in a given district (we had A LOT of that in Chicago in 2004). By forcing people to deal with extremely long lines. By denying people the right to vote in many different ways (lying about the vote day, making up BS stories about how people cannot vote if they wear pink slippers, crap like that). That is dispicible. It really is.

[PresidentObama]

9. I like when people say the GOP is "scared shitless"

Hell no they aren't. They love to sink their teeth into the Clintons, and Hillary will rally the GOP base and bring out the GOP slime machine. I think no matter the candidate in 2008, the GOP is going to be desperate to whip out the slime machine in full force. And thats nothing to do with Hillary, but she already rallies the GOP base against her.

I have my fears about Hillary, and I will vote for her when and if she gets the nomination. Till then I don't want her to be the nominee, and frankily I won't be too excited if she does. Because I don't think she can win at this point!!

[joshcryer]

12. GOP is scared shitless of any Democratic candidate.

Let's be realistic here. The Democratic candidate has an edge from the get go. Any Democratic nomination has the edge. As long as they don't sabotage themselves and handle the smear machine appropriately, they will win.

Regardless of who the candidate is.

[twilight_sailing]

10. Hill

"Anyone who says that the GOP wants Hillary to run...because it would "bring out the GOP voters in record numbers"

Would be telling the truth. Yes or no?

[joshcryer]

11. Yes.

Probably.

Good thing.

GOOD THING.

PEOPLE VOTING + DEMOCRACY = GOOD THING

Get out the damn vote! Don't whine that the other side is getting out their vote.

[twilight_sailing]

13. I'd rather see the Dems get out the vote.

[joshcryer]

14. But you don't want the GOP getting out their vote?

Democracy is for "our side" only?

[twilight_sailing]

17. Never said any such thing.

[joshcryer]

19. Then you rock. :)

Just blows me away. Get out the vote people!

[twilight_sailing]

22. Whatever

[Laurab]

26. As if republicans are interested in democracy

I haven't seen any lately who were. No, thank you. They've done enough damage.

In fact, with a candidate other than Hillary, perhaps repubs will vote for a Dem. I'm all for getting out the vote, but I also like sanity. I don't see ANY of that on the republican side, and haven't for the past 6 years.

[joshcryer]

27. Exactly, that's the point. Why be like them?

We could be all fascist and start using their tactics, that would work just fine. Are you willing to stoop to that level?

[Laurab]

31. We don't have to stoop to that level

we just have to run a good candidate. Good night.

[skipos]

15. 45% wasn't interested in choosing between Nixon and McGovern

I don't think Hillary is going to change much

[joshcryer]

18. I doubt it, too.

That's why I say things like "if" and such.

It would be GREAT if it happened. That's what the point of this post is! Think about it. Even a 10% surge in voter turnout would be a good thing.

[sendero]

21. Sure...

... let's encourage Republicans to vote and discourage Democrats.

That's a REAL GOOD PLAN for AMERICA.

[joshcryer]

23. Who is discouraging Democrats not to vote?

I'm encouraging people to vote. It is the defeatist attitude here that says "If Hillary runs she'll bring out the GOP vote and lose."

I'm saying "If you believe that, then you better dang well get out the vote for anyone, regardless!"

It's as simple as that.

[sendero]

34. I've got a much better idea..

... let's nominate someone deserving of the presidency. Hillary isn't, period.

[oasis]

24. "Progressive Purists" who refuse to vote for Hillary is no reason to panic. She's courting

moderates and independents who outnumber them 3 to 1. The far lefties are then free to support their favorite guru on a third party ticket while Democrats continue with the task of taking back the White House.

[joshcryer]

29. I'm not panicing.

I wrote in this thread that it's likely any Democratic candidate will win in the next general elections.

I'm just responding to this rather perculiar viewpoint that We Should Not Want People To Vote If They're Not Us.

[snowbear]

25. Raise your hands if you are SICK to death of "HILLARY" threads....

Please guys, give us a freak'n break already!!!!!

[joshcryer]

28. This is not a "Hillary thread."

This is a response to the undemocratic comments I've seen here on these forums.

[snowbear]

32. DU'ers need to learn to tack comments onto other Hillary threads..

We have TOO friggin' many individual Hillary threads.

How about a few Obama threads?

Maybe a Richardson or Dodd thread?

How about a few more Kucinich threads?

ANYONE ELSE!!!!!

There are others running -- and while Hillary has the least support on DU (likely) than any other candidate... she continually gets the most threads.

Sorry --- but DU'ers complain about her constant media coverage.. then they turn around and give her the same damn attention right here.

[joshcryer]

33. Hillary is getting a lot of exposure, because every time something comes out...

...dozens if not hundreds of "detracters" come out saying silly things like "she won't get my vote." And the same old rehashed conversations come up.

However, this is not a strictly Hillary thread, and if you read it you'd understand that.

Anyway, this is my last post to the thread, I wanted to get a sample of peoples opinions here and I'm satisified that not all of DU is out there. So yeah. The thread can sink now unless others respond. :)

[Bucky]

43. People would be less like to mistake this for a "Hillary thread" if wasn't a thread about Hillary

PS, "this is not a pipe"

[JNelson6563]

35. I'd rather we had a candidate

that brought out the Dems in droves. But hey, some prefer a high Republican turn-out instead, that's your business I guess. :shrug:

Julie

[Laurab]

38. Thanks, JNelson

That's exactly what I was TRYING to say!

[JNelson6563]

45. Hey, I'm here to help.

;-) :toast:

[Booster]

39. I not only think the GOP wants Hillary to run, I think they want her to

win. I can't recall a time when the job of the next president will be to clean up the worst mess ever made by one president. The GOP wants Hillary to fail cause then they will never again be "bothered" by a pesky woman running for president again, and believe me they will pull out their dirtiest tricks if she does win so that anything she tries to do they will block. It worked pretty good on Bill.

[mtnsnake]

42. Yup, I think the GOP wants her to win, too, & so many anti-Hillary posters here are jealous

because it actually gives her a better chance of winning a general election now.

[fuzzyball]

40. 9 out of 10 of the people I know are republicans...

at the golf club. I will return shortly to post
what they are saying about HRC.

[blm]

41. Antigay measures bring bigoted voters out in droves. Good on GOPs for bringing out voters

who may have stayed home because they have no interest in fair labor laws, healthcare issues, or just wars.

[fuzzyball]

44. Why the republicans fear HRC....

First of all, the republican base turns out when they
like their nominee rather than against the opponent.
I don't have the stats handy, but my guess is Reagan
in 1984 brought more GOP voters to the polls than Bush41
did in 1988. It was Reagan love-fest in 84 and not anti-Gore in 88.

I love golf and joined a private golf club since it is cheaper than
paying green's fees for every round at public courses, since I play
5+ rounds every week weather permitting. Most members at this club
are GOP which is no surprise. After the 18 holes we usually stop at the
bar for a couple of adult beverages.

These observations are based on what I hear other members talking...

>> They have been spooked by as they call "Hillary care" since
when Bill was in office. These members are all very well off
financially and can afford the best private healthcare. Many
have travelled the world mostly on business. They are scared
of government run health care.

>> Another fear they have is Hillary will initiate asset based
taxation versus income based. These are mostly retired folks with
considerable assets but no longer making big bucks, and therefore
an asset based tax will kill them.

>> Their perception of Hillary Clinton is that she is the most
extreme left wing of all candidates running. This is such a mis-
conception since Obama, the other front runner at this point has a
much more leftwing voting record in Illinois senate compared to
the Clinton's. But the perception is out there.

>> Lastly, these are all mostly older MEN and they just can't get
used to the possibility of a in your face type of woman running
the country.

Inspite of these mis-conceptions, what will bring them to the voting
booth is if they like their candidate.