We can't let the right wing define us anymore. We won't win doing that.

[madfloridian]

We never will. No one on our side will ever be good enough for them unless they sell their soul to them. I grew up in the Baptist church, so it has been a hard journey for me. I kept trying to see both sides for so long, as it was part of my life and part of my children's life.

They are now trying to run John Edwards' campaign He simply can not let them do it. There is no middle ground on this. Chris at MyDD and other bloggers are saying that this is only the start...to put a wedge between the netroots and the candidates. They will do it to others if they succeed.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/7/213425/5224

I have spent nearly the last four years of my life working on full-time progressive movement building. I do this because I believe a vibrant, healthy and mature progressive movement is the only way to counter the conservative movement, and to achieve the sort of change I want to see in America. Given this, I would rather find a new line of work than, in a Democratic primary, support a candidate who first courts the progressive movement, and then throws it under the bus at the first sign of pushback from the right-wing. We do everything we can to help Democrats, from raising hundreds of millions of dollars, to fighting every single negative media story, to innovative activism, to generating huge amounts of volunteer hours, to putting up with compromise after weak compromise in D.C. and on and on and on.

If, despite all of our tireless efforts, someone only views loyalty as something that flows uphill and shit as something that flows downhill, then quite frankly I feel supporting that candidate in a primary election would be self-destructive. If one of the main goals of the progressive movement is to help make the Democratic Party more open and accountable to its grassroots supporters, how can we still achieve our goals as a movement by helping someone who doesn't value his grassroots supporters to become the leader of the party? If you give someone your time, energy and support no matter how he treats you, why would that person ever respect you? What reason would he ever have to treat us as anything but an ATM machine? I can't think of a single one.

If you have not seen Alexandra Pelosi's Friends of God Road Trip on HBO, please do this month. It is very clear they are thinking of this in terms of a war.

Joel Osteen, a pastor seen weekly on national TV, says Christians must "fight the good fight." Teenage Christian zealots attend a "training camp" for "young warriors." A man identified as a Christian comic shouts from the stage, "We want our country back, and we'll fight for it" and a solicitation letter from Jerry Falwell is headlined in large italic type, "Will you join me in a declaration of war?"

They call it a culture war, Christians vs. "the secular progressive movement" (a phrase favored by Bill O'Reilly, Fox's nut-in-residence), Christians vs. abortion rights advocates, and Christians vs. science. Ken Ham and Buddy Davis indoctrinate children in the precepts of Creationism, which claims, among other things, that Job (as in the Book of) lived among dinosaurs and that those dinosaurs roamed the earth mere thousands of years ago -- not millions.

They wear t-shirts with Ignite written on them...Ignite what? They jump up and down and cry and yell with their hands in the air. A woman told Pelosi that if she believe in evolution she did not have a good education. They are right, they say dinosaurs roamed the earth with just a few thousand years ago. They are right because God told them so. End of story. No pleasing them from our side. It is almost a closed society unto itself.

Falwell encourages them to make their own "Battle Plans" at My Space at a site called "Battle Cry." Who are they going to battle? Us? The devil?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1034



We are not going to please them ever...trying to appease is useless. I speak coming out of that evangelical movement. My father was head deacon as I grew up, my whole family was involved. It was tolerant then, it is not tolerant now.

[illinoisprogressive]

1. I see it as there is reg. religion and the taliban religion.

the taliban style wants to take over the country and over throw the constitution and install biblical rule.
People like Bush used them for his own rise and power but, he gave them unfettered powers. his faith based stuff was meant as a way to crush the new deal programs. That was charitable privatization.
He filled the programs with these zealots. It was for his purpose but, they got a taste of power and how to control the country.
So, they are now dangerous

[derby378]

2. I got thrown off of an evangelical Christian website for political reasons

I was always a critic of Bush and the invasion of Iraq on that site, and while I caught a lot of flack for it, all was well, and I got to challenge evangelicals who thought that George W. Bush was the greatest thing since Joseph McCarthy.

Then I stated that referring to America "liberating" Iraq from Saddam Hussein was similar to Hitler "liberating" Poland from its own dictator. Well, that just tore it. The admin came down on me and told me to cool it on political matters - apparently, on that site, referring to a politician or an elected official as a "Nazi" is against the rules, although calling them "Commies" and "God-haters" is okey-dokey. And I didn't even compare Bush to Hitler. I was just making a reference to the rhetoric being used.

Eventually, I got thrown off for good for opening my big mouth about the Terri Schiavo case. I was fed up with all these people who were convinced that Bill Frist could diagnose someone based upon a grainy videotape of Terri at the nursing home.

They're learning not to mess around. Bush is the Second Coming, and if an evangelical points out the obvious about Bush, he's likely in danger of being ostracized.

[madfloridian]

3. Well, if most here were ever to be judged by things they have written..

in the past, it could be most unpleasant. I bet only a few would be worthy of ever working politically or of having a political future.

No matter how careful we are, someone will be offended somewhere.

[madfloridian]

4. This whole thing disturbs me tonight. Media Matters on it...good for them.

Their 2nd post on it:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200702080003

"CNN, MSNBC aired Donohue's criticism of Edwards bloggers without noting his bigotry"

But it worries me to think that the right wing bloggers and that Donahue guy are able to take their first Democratic scalps in this election cycle.

It gives them power they should not have. I just have an overall feeling of sadness about where our candidates really are and how hard they will fight for us.

:shrug: