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KKKarl is an idiot Donating Member (662 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 11:13 AM
Original message
I was anti-war before the war
My understanding of of the middle east & it's complexities made me weary of the war in Iraq before it took place. The Sunnis were in power but the Shia were the majority. If we took out Saddam's government there was sure to be a bigger conflict. The Saudis did not want a Shia government in control that would have had Iran,Iraq,Syria & Lebanon almost as one super power in the Middle east. My thoughts on the WMD's was that Saddam did not have the money to re-develop the program. Even if he did we had so eyes on Iraq we would have blown those plans to pieces as soon as they started. I also knew Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 because Al Quieda is a strong religious group & Saddam was not religious man.

Does anyone remember how they felt about the war before it started? Were you for or against the war? Did you say I told you so? When the days, weeks & months went by without them finding any WMD's.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Pappy Bush wrote a book detailing why he didn't go to Baghdad
Edited on Mon Feb-12-07 11:19 AM by peace13
during Desert Storm. That was the last sensible thing he ever said. Everything that he wrote has come true, the quagmire, the civil war...all of it. Any fool knew that we were marching into hell but the PNACers are willing to waste human lives for money in their pockets! It is so sad. Peace, Kim

Edit to say that I am not calling you a fool! lol :)
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. My first thought when I started picking up the "potential" War in
Edited on Mon Feb-12-07 11:25 AM by patrice
Corporate Media was "OMG!! George has just SHIT in the nest!!!" When Cheney came to Johnson County Kansas in the summer of 2002, I went to the venue. There were about 20 other anti-war and Labor people there. They wouldn't let us any closer than about 1/2 a block away. I am capable of being *extremely* loud. I shouted "NO WAR" as Cheney got out of his limo.

After that folks on the DU turned me on to Scott Ritter and he got me started finding out what was going on. Ritter was a Huge influence on me. He IS one of my personal heroes.
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mulsh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. I was anti- war before the 1st gulf war
Reading PNAC's wonderfully informative documents hade me even more virulently anti-war. Add the fact that there are so many sinister people from the previous Reagan/Bush regimes scared me even more than the PNAC crap. It's been a distaster from start to finish.
Funny how my friends who were so gung ho at the start now dance furiously when reminded of their initial support.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm one of the few hundred who protested Poppy's Iraq War! I was in
Dallas at the time. I also froze half to death in Feb. 2002 standing on a street corner with about 10 million world-wide, saying 'no'.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. I was against it. The "Real" intelligence was out there, the weapons
inspectors had found nothing. We had contained Saddam for many years and oculd continue to do so. The risks were enormous, with the Shia majority, the Kurd minority and their fierce desire for independence, and throwinig the Sunni out of leadership waws going to leave a vacuum.

Frankly, it's all turned out like I expected it to turn out. There was no "bad intel", there was a stubborn, ignorant and belligerent president.

There's no joy in saying "I told you so." I didn't want to be right about this. It's too awful.

Sometimes I do say, "Well the information was out there but most people didn't pay attention to it or they didn't know where to look."

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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. Profound dread as we were going in
Leading up to it was like watching a train wreck in slow motion, knowing it was going to happen, unsure of the final outcome, hoping against hope that things would get back on track. But three months before the 'official' invasion I knew it was a done deal even though Bush was claiming "I decide when we go to war and I haven't decided. Why do you keep saying that?" In the end, I realized that Bush was not going to spend millions of dollars deploying troops and equipment just to have them turn around and come home.

I distinctly recall getting into it a big with hubby on the eve of the Shock and Awe. Telling him "I just don't understand it! Why can't they let the inspectors finish the job?" His response was "You don't get it. Those things (WMD) are really small," as he put his hands into the shape of a cigar shaped box. I asked him if he thought Saddam has them, and he said "Yes"...definitively.

So, like the dutiful wife who is not as schooled in history as he is (not to mention the one who always loses 'debates'), I just shook my head and muttered, "I just don't get it." To this day, he hasn't even approached anything close to 'you were right', and he gets angry with me for watching and keeping up with "all of that political crap".

So no, I haven't said I told you so. Haven't needed to.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yeah, me and FIFTY-SIX PERCENT of the American people opposed the war
before it started. February 2003. Before all of Colin Powell's lies were exposed. Before no WMDs were discovered. Before the invasion.

56%!

That would be a landslide in a presidential election.

In all polls, across the board. A good majority of the American people OPPOSED THE WAR FROM THE BEGINNING!

Another compelling stat from that period: 63% of the American people oppose torture "under any circumstances." (May '04)

So the question is not, how did they hoodwink the American people? The question is, how did they disenfranchise the majority and steal the 2004 election?

And you don't have to look hard for the answer to that. At the same time that the Anthrax Congress was passing the Iraq War Resolution, they were passing the "Help America Vote for Bush Act" of 2002 (aka, the "Help America Vote Act"--HAVA), a $3.9 billion electronic voting boondoggle, by which to fast-track crapass, insecure, extremely insider hackable voting machines all over the country--voting machines run on 'TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations. And they are:

DIEBOLD: Until recently, headed by Wally O'Dell, a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer," right up there with Ken Lay), who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush-Cheney in 2004"; and

ES&S: A spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon Foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things). Diebold and ES&S have an incestuous relationship; until recently, they were run by two brothers, Bob and Tod Urosevich. (One of them got outa Dodge last year--can't recall which one.)

These are the people who "counted" 80% of the nation's votes in 2004, under a veil of corporate secrecy.

-----

If you're going to conduct an unjust, heinous war, in a democracy where the people remember Vietnam, you have to fix the elections. That's what they did.

This fascist coup occurred on October 29, 2002--passage of HAVA. Mark it on your calendar as the anniversary of the end of American democracy.

Non-transparent elections are not elections. They are tyranny.

---------------------------------------

And here's an even most interesting fact about the American people. At the same time that 56% opposed the war on Iraq, about 50% believed that Saddam had WMDs and/or had something to do with 9/11. But this 50% stat does not mean that half of Americans are stupid sheeple, as it is often interpreted. Combined with the 56% opposition to the war, it means that a significant portion of the American people were struggling to THINK FOR THEMSELVES under a relentless, 24/7 barrage of fascist warmongering propaganda and outright lies. They may have believed that Saddam had WMDs, but they didn't think it was a big threat, and certainly not worth a war. They may have believed that Saddam had something to do with 9/11, but it was minor. In short, they didn't trust Bush. They were trying to evaluate the situation for themselves, and determine what THEY thought was a reasonable policy, despite 100% disinformation from the war profiteering corporate news monopolies. Obviously, some portion of that 50% with these bits of disinformation rattling around in their heads, made up some portion of the 56% who opposed the war.

Of the 56% who opposed the war, about half opposed it outright, and the other half would only agree if it was a UN peacekeeping mission, i.e., based on world consensus that something had to be done. No such consensus occurred. Major allies balked. The UN refused to participate. The UN weapons inspectors were proving Colin Powell wrong, even as Bush invaded and kicked them out. So we had more than 25% of the country that were onto Bush from the beginning, and another 25%-plus who wanted UN corroboration that there was a problem serious enough to warrant invasion.

This stat--56% opposed to the war (--and it's about 75% today!)--presents a very different strategic question to progressive activists than is generally evident, here at DU or anywhere else. Our strategy should be based on re-empowering and, most critical of all, RE-ENFRANCHISING the majority of the Americans, not on arguing with the rightwing nutballs. The rightwing is being given a BIG TRUMPET--way out of proportion to their numbers--by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies. Our most important task is NOT convincing the majority of people in an argument with rightwing extremists. Our most important task is convincing the majority that they are the majority!

THIS has been the corporate news monopolies' ONLY propaganda victory--making the members of the progressive MAJORITY feel isolated and alone, and thinking that the rest of America has gone nuts. They could NOT convince the majority of Americans that the Iraq War was necessary. They could only convince them that their opposition to the war was a minority viewpoint--and thus demoralize and disempower us.

So, forget arguing with your rightwing Bushite uncle, and start talking to the quiet people in your family, neighborhood, workplace and school, and encourage THEM to talk, to speak up, to get active, to take power. Well, don't stop arguing with him. The quiet ones may be enjoying your argument. But just remember that your rightwing Bushite uncle does not, and never did, represent the majority view. The rightwing has gained power by stealth and by deception, by stolen elections, and by the fascist war/corporate media promoting their views to the exclusion of all others including those of the majority.

And start asking your Congress critter and local/state election officials and legislators how the hell rightwing Bushite electronic voting corporations are running our elections with SECRET programming code!


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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. It wasn't hard to be anti-war before the war. There was plenty
of evidence to know you were dealing with pathological liars--Bush and Cheney--and to know that Iraq did not pose a threat to the US.

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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. I was against the war before it started
but since it started, I feel like at least I need to express support for the troops there, even if I think that the war was wrong. We're there, and I truly hope we can find a way to help the Iraqis form a stable nation out of this mess before we leave.
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