America's View Of GOP Crumbles With Iraq

[Mark E. Smith]

Salt Lake Tribune

According to the latest Gallup survey, Republican self-identification has declined nationally
and in almost every American state.

Why? The short answer is that President Bush's war of choice in Iraq has destroyed the partisan
brand the Republicans spent the past four decades building.

That brand was based on four pillars: that Republicans are more trustworthy on defense and
military issues; that they know when and where markets can replace or imporve government;
that they are more competent administrators of those functions government can't privatize;
and, finally, that their public philosophy is imbued with moral authority.

The war demolished all four claims.

In uniform or out, Americans think Iraq is a disaster, oppose escalaltion and blame Bush
and his party for the mess in Mesopotamia

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_5238026

[opihimoimoi]

1. They chose to support Bush knowing he was mentally comped...tough shit they crumble

[Benhurst]

2. Recommended #1

[acmavm]

3. And all four of the premises are delusional crap that republicans like to

believe about themselves but when their actions are carefully scrutinized you always find that they are a party of self-serving greedy lying bastards.

[StClone]

14. Not only that but the "Four Pillars" are carefully crafted

Facades to which easily duped Conservative Red Staters could come to believe reflected their own independent, tough, humble forthrightness. All proclaim independence from the emotional Liberals and yet by the fact they need four pillars to make them happy, whole and safe shows a weakness to emotional manipulation.

[mac56]

4. K & R

!!!

[Joe Chi Minh]

5. I was suddenly struck by the humour of it all, hearing in the background,

Wolf Blitzer blithely burbling on about Rudi Giuliani, - and for all I know other Republican hopefuls, such as McCain. For all the world, blissfully unaware that he, his political masters and his MSM associates had been well and truly rumbled by the American people; that they would as soon believe the moon was made of cheese as heed their happy burblings and solemn "pronunciamentos" on politics. ANY politics.

"It's over!", I wanted to tell him. "It's over"! Don't you understand?

[madhoosier]

6. Republican values $$$$$$$

Thomas Schaller asks: “Finally, there is the war's morality. In what moral system is it justified to wage a war without paying for it?”

This war was based on premeditated lies, is an ongoing attempt to steal the Middle East’s oil for the benefit of Big Oil, the war in Iraq has seen the Bush administration justify torture, and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands on innocents and the author is morally outraged that Bush is using debt to finance the war.....

[Tansy_Gold]

29. And the ONLY thing that has really outraged the RWers

is the fact that they aren't getting a suitable return on their "investment."

Many of them, many of the working class RWers that I've listened to in casual conversation -- and they are the ones who are turning away from the war and from their support of boooosh in sufficient numbers to make "news" -- have NOT been discouraged by the number of American deaths. Many of them mouth the talking point that losing a few lives is a small price to pay. "Price to pay" really means "small investment for a potentially huge profit." Iraqi lives are unimportant; they're the equivalent of Monopoly money, pun intended. And the 3000+ American lives are considered "nothing" compared to the 58,000 lost in Vietnam.

The difference between Vietnam and Iraq, in their eyes, is that there was no obvious and tangible prize in Vietnam. The war then was against communism, and whatever natural resource wars lay underneath the surface, they didn't affect the lives of everyday Americans with the same impact that oil wars affect us now. In the late 60s and early 70s, we still lived in fear of the Red Menace; now we live in the same fear of Peak Oil. (Rising gas prices are far more real and in many ways far more deadly than the mere threat of a terrorist attack, but a terrorist attack is more dramatic, gets a lot more attention.)

Even the uninformed or self-deluding RWers know the Iraq war is about oil. They don't deal with profits or war profiteering or political manipulation or anything else, but they still know "we" have to "win" in Iraq because otherwise "they" will control the oil. And they now have turned on their leader because he has failed to deliver the goods.

I feel damn little sympathy for them, and what little I *do* feel is nothing more than the compassion I feel as a human being toward other living (?) creatures caught in a painful trap. This one, however, was of their own making.


Tansy Gold, former hoosier

[GrimReefa]

35. Schaller is no Republican

In fact, he's a big-time Democrat.

But remember, this isn't about what upsets him PERSONALLY, it's about the reason Republicans are having so much trouble within their own Party. Everything you've listed, the lies, the innocent civilians killed, the torture, is all seen as justifiable by the perverse ethical system these Republicans (or, increasingly, ex-Republicans) use. But not footing the bill and passing it down to future generations, as well as using taxpayer money to reward the Presidents old business friends with fat no-bid contracts - that does, in fact, go against everything the Republican Party supposedly stands for.

[calimary]

7. Oh YEAH!!!! That noise you hear is calimary doing the HAPPY DANCE!!!

I LOVE seeing things like this. And in SALT LAKE CITY, forcryingoutloud!?!?!? (Take THAT, orrin hatch!!!)

So much for your Great Fucking Political Realignment, kkkarl. Your precious once-in-a-generation political "savior"/soul brother has fucked everything up so badly that he's managed to screw YOUR pooch, too.

This is some comfort, albeit cold comfort, after all the havoc they've wreaked. I'm DELIGHTED to hear that this is being hung around the necks of bush and his party. If we can't send them all to Leavenworth for life, now, at least we can deflate their dreams of absolute dominance for, hopefully, several decades.

They need to be set back SO FAR that it will take them YEARS to "recover." Or better yet, may they NEVER recover. I think they'd do very nicely in permanent minority status. After all, they represent clear minorities - religious extremists, the flat-earth (and flat-head) crowd that would have us turn back the clock to the 12th century, the top one-half-of-one percent economically, the elite and greedy few at the top of the zigurrat in the corporate world, and the select few "have's" and "have more's." WE, on the other hand, represent EVERYBODY ELSE. Repeat - EVERYBODY ELSE. The numbers, the SHEER NUMBERS, are with US, guys.

I think we need to grind them down onto the ground, place our boots SECURELY on their throats, and KEEP THEM THERE. Because it's going to take a LONG time to fix what they've fucked up (aside from their own vaunted, self-inflated "reputations"). Fuckers ALL! To the BASEMENT with every last one of them. And lieberman, too.

BTW, madhoosier, Welcome to DU! Glad you're here! Pardon me for roaring like this, but I think we ALL should. If this is what's really happening around the country, and it's now the "death of the republi-CON party" that's being openly spoken about and written about (as opposed to a few years back when the limbaugh contingent was crowing about the "death of the Democratic party," then it's a day to CELEBRATE. It's the first day of Taking OUR Country BACK!!! And OUR government. And OUR Constitution. And OUR rights. And OUR self-respect. And OUR reputation around the world. And the honor of OUR word (since nobody even believes us anymore, with these assholes speaking "for" us).

[Hekate]

22. My happy feet are dancing with you!

:evilgrin: And my face may start to hurt from the biiiiig grin. :hi:

Hekate

[GrimReefa]

34. By all means, keep dancing, but...

Schaller is no Salt Lake City-ite.

He's a professor in Baltimore (and a good one- I had him once), and this column is being syndicated - the original is in the Baltimore Sun. I don't know much about the Salt Lake Tribune, but if it's a real newspaper, and not just a right-wing rag, then the fact that this column is appearing in Salt Lake City is really just a coincidence, and not some indication of how the Utes really feel.

It's a good column, though.

[femrap]

8. As far as I can see, the only way the US

can extricate itself from this mess is to utilize the 25th Amendment....I sincerely believe the World would believe that our Commander-in-Chief is mentally unfit....too stressed, too much liquor, too much cocaine....it has all taken its toll on him....off to rehab he must go so the adults can return sanity to the US's foreign and domestic policy.

And as for Cheney....after Libby's trial, I don't think it would take much to impeach him...or to get him to resign for 'heart' (or lack thereof) problems.

Even repugnants could agree to this.

[calimary]

10. You're spot-on about how the rest of the world is feeling.

They do. There were other threads here - in LBN - that were clearly indicative of exactly that. I'm gonna go try to find 'em. One detailed a meeting between, I believe, the foreign ministers of India (not Japan), China and Russia, talking about the increasingly worrisome perception that the US is a rogue nation that needs to be contained - and why the three of them should band together on that score.

Here:

London Times: Giants India, China and Russia meet to counter US power

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2731736


The other described increasing fear and loathing building in other Middle Eastern nations that now feel compelled to arm up - investing in tanks, helicopters, and all kinds of guns and ammo - because things have become so destabilized by the US stirring things up in Iraq.


Oil states plan weapons buying binge

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2734969


Oh yeah, and look at THIS:

NKorea on "war footing" over US attacks (AFP)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2733535


We're now widely regarded as a menace around the planet, shackled to a rogue pResident who's determined to take us all to hell for the sake of his precious legacy and his messiah complex. I think it was Stephanie Miller I heard characterizing it as a wild ride in an out-of-control car. We have a drunken, delusional madman at the wheel, about to drive us straight over a cliff, and we're all securely strapped in the back seat and can't get free. Nice job, neoCONS. Maybe you guys should study the theory of "be careful what you wish for" while you're safely coddled inside your beautiful, white, comfy, ivory-tower think tanks.

[femrap]

38. Thank you so much for the links.....

I wish the Dems would focus on the behavior of W...his illogical behavior. At one point, Pelosi called him 'dangerous.'

People in this country and around the world would not need to be convinced of his lack of mental stability....it offers us and the world a way out of this mess....if only this idea could reach critical mass/tipping point...less time consuming and less messy than impeachment hearings.

When will someone 'with authority' say: The emperor has lost his marbles?! We need to use the 25th Amendment.

[ToeBot]

9. This weeks LTTE page should provide some bilious reading,

And since the Trib is considered the more liberal (read 'gentile') paper, the verbal stoning will be especially brutal.

[NewJeffCT]

27. well, it's time to write something in support of them, then

even a few short paragraphs is good.

[pat_k]

11. And 58% want out of Bush World NOW.

Newsweek Poll
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-27-2007/0004514285&EDATE=">27-Jan-07

"At this point in time, do you personally wish that George W. Bush's presidency was over, or don't you feel this way?
58% Yes, wish it was over

37% No, do not

5% Don't know/refused

Note: The question, "do you personally want it over" strips out all the impeachophobic rationalizations, and thus captures the actual level of support for impeachment.

[Danascot]

12. The American people have had it with Bush and Iraq

but still the Pukes are doing their best to fight a non-binding resolution in Congress, blathering about giving the surge a chance and meanwhile the MSN is not pointing out that Iraq is a lost cause, and a waste of lives and money, something that is obvious to everyone outside the beltway.

Voters won't be able to vote against Bush in the next election but if the Pukes don't change their tune real fast, they will vent their wrath by turning against every Puke on the ballot.

Rove's vision of a thousand year reich is toast ... not that that's a bad thing.

[tblue]

13. Yeah, gay marriage and abortion just ain't gonna cut it with 60+%. The 4th Reich is toast!

[cyclezealot]

15. Stay on the offensive Democrats

Don't get too comfortable. They area a dirty , deceitful pr machine. They are very capable of shaking the special interest money machine for their message of distortion. Their dirty band of publicity hounds can go on the attack with endless attack ads. Stay in touch with our new constitutents or else they will. Be ready to fight back because their attack machine is never far away.
A sure way to destroy their base is keep up the investigations such as Henry Waxman aims to do. Their corruptions must be made known, while we have the power to expose them.

[Divine Discontent]

16. cyclezealot is sooooooooo right on!

we can't let up, keep pointing out their immense lies and failures, and hypocrisy (Ted Haggard, Delay, Paige Scandal, war lies) and keep convincing others!

PLEASE!

I got my big mouthed best friend bashing bush in public now, he is a no holds barred type that doesn't mince his words, he goes for the jugular and he used to be repub, but since 03 he's true blue dem, and so is his mom since 04, amazing turn around for them, and they are influential big mouths like me.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[cyclezealot]

19. RIght now the best offense vs Repuke corruption is

Henry Waxman. so please, back him up and help feed his courage.

[Divine Discontent]

40. how could I do that? any advice would be great n/t

[cyclezealot]

41. I suggest things like.

Call/write committee members tell them to investigate/investigate the Bush cronyism with Halliburton, etc. Effected committees; Senate Intelligency under Jay Rockefeller. And Henry Waxman's House committee.
I even enjoyed calling and hassling REp. Hoekstra, R -Mich. I could tell his staff was fuming when I demanded hearings in regards to Senate/House intelligence investigations re: Bush war run up LIES. The senate intelligence committee under R. Sen. Pat Roberts would have been better called the Senate Cover up committee.
Good to tell the repukes, we want the Democrats to INVESTIGATE. Let them know we are calling our Democratic members demanding the Democrats investigate Repuke corruption. Also, write letters to the press telling of GOP corruption and demand it be investigated/

[sutz12]

17. "The war demolished all four claims."

Chisel that on their tombstones.

But actually, that is a mis-statement on its face.

The war demolishes people faith that Repubs know anything about defense and securtiy.

The rampant corruption demolishes any concept that they know how 'privatization' can improve government.

Their basic failure is just about every field from education to keeping our food safe demolishes the idea that they have any competence at all.

Just about everything they do argues agains their having any moral authority at all.

[ProSense]

18. From the article:

Finally, there is the war's morality. In what moral system is it justified to wage a war without paying for it? Bush tormented Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., in 2004 for "voting for before voting against" funding the war. But Kerry voted for a version of the $87- billion appropriations bill that also raised revenues to pay for it. Instead, we pile the war's costs atop our mountainous national debt, leaving future generations to pay for it later - plus interest.

[Skittles]

20. the GOP stank it up a long, LONG time before Iraq

yes INDEED

[nolabels]

24. And about a decade later the people have figured it out...........

Well somewhat anyway :shrug:

[autorank]

21. K&R This is remarkable.

Thanks Mark E. Smith. This is an amazing read. And the Salt Lake paper published it (actually I find that paper is pretty good at being, well, a news paper).

They really suck.

Will be move in to fill the void with a bold vision?

Stay tuned for dark horses Gore and Webb who are fully capable of breathing life into our party.

[TexasLinda]

23. Iraq was only part of it.

Iraq took down the first pillar, greedy CEO's took down the second pillar, and FEMA/Katrina took down the the third pillar. As for the fourth pillar, Tom DeLay, Jack Abramoff, and Terry Schaivo come to mind. Republicans lied to send our young people to die in a foreign country just so they could make themselves rich war-profiteering. Last year's Republican congress, with their short work weeks (at least those weeks they bothered to show up for), accomplished little but to enrich themselves through pork-laden budgets and lobbyist bribes. I'm surprised more of them weren't booted to the curb in the last election.

[Amonester]

26. Good observations.

May I mention the fact that more of them weren't booted to the curb in the last election because, even if the anti-democratic paperless voting machines were still used, and the republic party's hacks tried to steal it again, they could not twart the results enough to surpass the overwhelming amounts of votes that went to the Democratic Party candidates.

Had these crooks' machines (and other anti-democratic, un-american tactics to steal elections) not been employed, I am quite certain the awol monkey's cabal would be facing an "impeachment-capable" Democratic Senate like right now (or even, last week...).

[Jade Fox]

33. Good assessment of the last election......

I agree: The Democrats prevailed last fall in spite of the Republican election-stealing tactics. The true support of regime change would have been huge with a fair election.

Some part of me is overjoyed at watching the GOP repeatedly shoot itself in the foot, tho I know it's coming at a terrible price. I just hope the damage they are doing to themselves lasts for decades.

[Amonester]

39. Same hopes here, Jade.

The sooner they can't steal & lie their way to the top positions in Gov. anymore, the better for us and the world.

[jab105]

25. And HIllary CLinton wont admit that it was a mistake?!?!?!?

:shrug:

[krispos42]

37. She has a valid argument for her vote at the time

Not that I'm a big fan of hers or anything (Dean for me, thanks), but let's look at the facts:

There were conditions in the Authorization for Military Force that, had they been followed, would have prevented us from going into Iraq. That whole UN resolution thing, plus some other conditions about weapons inspectors and such, IIRC.

The sheer ruthless need for blood, lust for oil, hatred of government in general, and pathetic desire for political capitol were far beyond what most people could imagine at the time. A few people were like "Hey, this guy's a psycho", but that was widely regarded as hyperbole

And the evidence fabrication... well, nobody wants to admit they were duped, especially when the scale of the lies are this big, almost beyond comprehension. Believing the scale means you have to radically change your opinion of just how low people can go when they want to accomplish a goal.

All of this simply means the true nature of the Evil in the White House took a long time to become apparent mainstream, and even now, most Americans won't believe it if it is brought up in casual conversation. "He's just incompetent". "He means well".

Having said that, I believe Hillary needs to, immediately, give a powerful speech outlining basically what I stated above to regain credibility. She needs to hammer home that if Bush had faithfully followed the AMF's conditions, that since he wouldn't have gotten the UN resolution he wouldn't have gone into Iraq in March of 2003, and several million people would be both alive AND unharmed.

It wouldn't hurt, IMHO, for her to call for the resignation of Bush and Cheney due to the evidence fabrication, either, in this speech.

[connecticut yankee]

28. Yes, but

we knew all that from the beginning.

[SpiralHawk]

30. AMERICA: We're sick and tired of corrpupt republicon lying, stealing, deviancy

and especially their calculated efforts to divide and degrade America.

We especially dislike have a National Gaurd deserter, and his war-profiteering sidekick with 5 military deferments, leading our honorable sons and daughters who are in the Armed Services. Those Chickenhawk republicons are not fit to lead a parade to the take out line at McDonald's, never mind America's soldiers.

[Patiod]

31. Many I know call themselves "Libertarians" now

"Oh, I never really WAS much of a Republican - much more of a Libertarian" (because all I care about is myself)

[GrimReefa]

36. The Repubs have a big problem

The Libertarians and the Jesus Freaks do NOT like each other. They have had this marriage of convenience ever since the Civil Rights Act was passed, and they have tolerated each other since then because they needed each other, but the fact of the matter is that they do not belong together, and each now wants to self-identify away from the Republican Party because of the other. I.e., Libertarians are identifying themselves as such, and the JFs have been talking about forming a third party that will be more concerned with their issues - racism, homophobia, and misogyny (you know, just what Jesus wanted us all to be - hateful bigots).

[wryter2000]

32. Music to my ears

President Bush's war of choice in Iraq has destroyed the partisan
brand the Republicans spent the past four decades building.

What a crime that it took this to wake the sheeple up.

Now, if only the Republics in Congress would throw Bush under the bus to save themselves.

[progressoid]

42. But, one has to wonder how many R's actually see beyond the war

Do they know they have been getting screwed by their own party for decades (unless, you are a corporate exec at Raytheon, KBR, RJReynolds, etc.). Are they really turned off by their party, or just this pResident and his war?

[cyclezealot]

43. A fool would be overconfident.

Politics is a civilized form of warfare. Unless, you are repuke, then its trench warfare.

[Kolesar]

44. Schaller does not give the data for the rate of decline of identification with the Repulban party

This should really be in "editorials", but I am not complaining too loud.