Daily Kos "Why America Needs Wes Clark"

[Dinger]

This expresses many of the reasons why I would love to see Wesley Clark be my president:

a snip:

. . . djm4america's diary :: ::
I agree with most Clarkies, when they say Wes Clark doesn't need to be President but America needs him to be President.

Wes Clark is a person who didn't grow up with wealth, he was born in Chicago and raised in Little Rock. His mother was a secretary, his dad died when he was a child. His step-father who carried on for his father, worked in a bank. . . "

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/19/101345/904

[KingofNewOrleans]

1. And I disagree with that statement

I agree with most Clarkies, when they say Wes Clark doesn't need to be President but America needs him to be President.

Maybe that's why Clarkies rub me the wrong way. I mean I like Clark as a candidate (or very least a cabinet member) but there's something almost cultish about his hardcore supporters that really gives me pause.

[Dinger]

3. America Does Need Him As President

And many Clarkies believe that. It doesn't make us a "cult" in my opinion. If not Clark, I'd easily support Gore, and maybe others.

Peace:)

[Bombtrack]

4. I'm a strong Clark suppoter who'd be thrilled to support Obama in the event Clark drops out

they'd both be dream candidates, the rarity of which this country could surely use, (and perhaps NEED), that I wouldn't include the likes of Hillary Clinton, Bill Richardson, or Joe Biden anywhere close to.

[Captain Hilts]

5. Yes, Clark's my 1st choice, but I could vote with enthusiasim for other candidates.

We have a great field this time around.

[Dinger]

7. Yes We Do.

repukes look weak, very weak, and that's putting it mildly.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Why are Clarkies called a Cult but not Edwardians?

At least Clarkies know how to answer questions about Wes Clark fully and completely.

Unfortunately, I'm not getting very good information from Edwardians when I ask any questions about John Edwards....instead they just call me names, tell me that I'm smearing their man, that I must not like Democrats, and hear words used such as "Cultist" and shit.

:eyes:

Clarkies might be cultist, but many Edwardians appear childish.

Guess if you can giveth....you can taketh! Right? :)

[KingofNewOrleans]

9. You're entitled to your opinion as much

as I am mine. I just find Clarkies more likely to say that Clark is "the only one" who can do.... If someone suggests that he may end up as VP on a Hillary ticket, Clarkies become quite upset with the suggestion that Clark would stoop to ally himself with Hillary. Clarkies just seem to be borderline hero-worship.

Hillary is probably my least favorite candidate (maybe Biden, but Biden doesn't have any supporters posting here) but I think SaveElmer does a better job promoting/representing Hillary than many of the Clarkites do (and, yes, it's unfair to paint them as group).

[roguevalley]

11. so what? when is supporting your candidate a bad thing? Besides,

most of us know his resume and know that, considering how fucked up the world is, it will take someone like him to unfuck it. :) I'm not a fanatic. I'm well read on most of them and I've made a choice. I support it, like Dean people and Edwards people and Clinton people all do. For me, he is the only one. If that is wrong, then so what. He's my boy.

[KingofNewOrleans]

12. There's a difference between support and hero

worship. I think the statement that started this thread is the latter.

[Dinger]

25. "America Needs Wes Clark" = "Hero Worship"?

I think that is a stretch, sorry. What would be "o.k." with you?"clark is an o.k. guy.""Clark is good, sort of"?
What type of supportive statement would be supportive, but NOT be qualified as "hero worship"?

[Jai4WKC08]

36. We don't worship Clark

But he is a hero and I'm not ashamed to say it. What he has accomplished with his life is so far above and beyond what any of the others have done, it doesn't even begin to compare.

If that turns you off, it's a shame. But is says more about you and your unwillingness to learn the facts about Clark or to appreciate what they mean about his character and ability, than it does about Clark or Clarkies.

But I guess it's easier for you to belittle us as cultists than to credit us with genuine admiration of and affection for a great man. Maybe you think acting cynical makes you look smarter.

[roguevalley]

38. one man's support is another's hero worship. I don't believe I care

to have other people decide for me what I feel for someone. I admire clark's resume and his courage and his candor more than anyone else running.

[Texas_Kat]

19. Clark and HC disagree on fundamental foreign policy

Iran, Iraq, Darfur... I could go on)

So yeah,

1. To conflate his opinion with hers is incorrect.

2. To assume that he would 'go along to get along" for a VP position is fundamentally dishonest.

3. Chris Lehane is a menace (he's the psuedo-Clinton surrogate who started the rumor) and should be locked in a hole and allowed out for air only once in a blue moon.

[Clark2008]

29. I don't get upset - I just don't think that Clark wasnts to be anyone's VP.

If he's not president, I think he'd rather be Sec. of State. His talents aren't as president of the Senate.

[westcott]

18. I could've sworn it was the shaved heads and tambourines

[Cha]

32. I got called a "name"

by a hillary supporter. It makes me wonder at what level they're calibrating from?

I like Kucinich, Clark, Edwards, Obama, and that's about as far as it goes cause Gore's not gonna run.

[jen4clark]

8. shhhhhh

It's supposed to be a secret. Course, when you see that we all have shaved heads, I guess it will be a dead giveaway... :smoke:

~~~~

Thanks, Dinger! That was a great diary. I do believe if this country is meant to survive and be what our founding fathers envisioned, General Clark will be our next President. I think Al Gore would also be able to bring us back from the brink -- the others, not so much.

[windbreeze]

16. OMG....I just know I don't see that happening with any other candidate...

on this site....hell no...not Kerry, not Hillary, not Edwards...not none of them....sheesh...the very nerve of us hardcore Clarkies to make you so damned uncomfortable...I swear to god the nonsense is becoming akin to sickening...

I agree with the statement...but the more I see on this site...the more I begin to believe..we don't deserve his brand of intelligence, and ability in the WH...instead, I am beginning to believe we deserve more of exactly what we have right now...and since Bush the idiot wasn't elected the first time...perhaps he can run a third time...?? I mean, doesn't he have the right to be actually ELECTED to TWO consecutive terms??
wb

[Clark2008]

28. It's because the media ignores him so poignantly.

It's a pushback. We're pretty sick and tired of his being left off of nearly every list when he actually did quite well in 2004 - he beat Edwards in five out of the nine states in which they both competed, he was correct about the Iraqi war and he's the only one really sounding the alarm bells regarding our Iranian policy.

It's not cult-like behavior you're witnessing; it's frustration with the media's power lust.

[illinoisprogressive]

2. I feel the same as I do about Gore. Nice guys but, damn it , let them

decide for themselves. It's their lives. they have served their country and have sacrificed. If they want to run fine. If not, leave them alone. They deserve that amount of respect.

[KingofNewOrleans]

13. I probably should have taken your tack

It would have caused less trouble

[SaveElmer]

10. Chris Bowers thinks neither Clark or Gore will be running...

I tend to agree...

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/19/215157/532#commenttop

[knight_of_the_star]

14. If Clark is going to run

He's not going to jump in just yet. He knows that the media is playing the Obama Hillary game right now and it would work better to wait until people are tired of that and jump in as something new with enough time to get his campaign going without wearing out his welcome.

[FrenchieCat]

15. I'm glad that Clark is no follower.......

he is a leader.

I respect him immensely.

Whatever he does, I'll respect his decision.

Considering the assholes in politics, it may not be worth it at the end of the day.

Right now, he's meeting with world leaders....and you know what? He ain't even got to act tough to be taken seriously. :)

[SaveElmer]

17. I challenge you to show...

Any instance where I have criticized Wesley Clark...

You act as though I have been bashing him or something...

[Texas_Kat]

20. And you would be wrong.

[SaveElmer]

26. Just relaying what I read...

Judge for yourself

[Clark2008]

30. I did read her statement and no where did she accuse you

of bashing Clark.

How'd you get that out it?

[Texas_Kat]

41. Since Bowers has no insight into Wes's nascent campaign

it's complete speculation on his part..... as of this morning, has not yet made a decision... public.

[Capn Sunshine]

21. I need someone to dissuade me of the opinion he's a Stalking horse

To me, the fact that he hasn't entered the race means Hillary isn't worried about things yet. If it were anything else, he would be in.

It's admirable from a loyalty standpoint yet quixotic to hope for a candidacy of Clark. He's too comfy at Fox News. I just don't see Clark doing it unless Obama takes a huge lead and great buzz. Because I honestly think he serves at Hillary's discretion. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Texas_Kat]

22. Hillary is a stalking horse for Wes

(sorry, couldn't help it)

If I told you how I know, I'd have to shoot you -- but Clark serves at NO ONE's discretion -- except maybe ours....

[FrenchieCat]

23. Why would Clark be subject to Hillary.......

When he was "retired early" while her and her husband were on watch? :shrug:
The man took off his uniform after 34 years of service and winning a war on little funds and with very little bloodshed in a way that strengthened our alliance with Europe.

In fact, it is Clark that saved Clinton's ass......by winning the war, while Bill was busy with Monicagate.

In fact, both Hillary and Bill owe Clark a great deal.

Why would Clark owe them anything? Please explain yourself better.

Maybe the Clinton "owed" Clark something...which is the very little bit we "heard" about that Clinton might have or might not have done during the time that Clark was in the race.

But I'm trying to figure out why you want us to picture Wes Clark on a leash that Hillary is holding. That makes no fucking sense....and I'd like a better explanation from you, If I may.

Just sounds like you're dragging out some old rumor that you bought into long ago....but when you really start to reason it out, I'm not sure you'll really be able to put up a rationale as to what Clark owed the Clintons...no matter how much you were enamored with Howard Dean.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Maybe Clark was really Howard Dean's stalking Horse?

Clark also voiced strong support for Democratic National Committee head Howard Dean, who has been criticized for comments attacking Republicans.

"We've got to protect our freedom and our liberty," Clark said. "I'm proud of Howard Dean. I'm proud of the Democratic party. And we're going to stand together as a party."
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050613/NEWS0201/106130013/-1/CITIZEN

What did other say at that time when Dean was under fire......?
Did they stand by Howard Dean?

Democrats alike have criticized Dean for the unnecessary harshness of his comments. Democratic senator Joe Biden distanced himself from the comments, saying that Dean “doesn’t speak for me with that kind of rhetoric and I don’t think he speaks for the majority of Democrats.”

Former senator John Edwards said that “the chairman of the DNC is not the spokesman for the Democratic Party…He’s only a voice. I don’t agree with it.”
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05060807.html

[On the Road]

27. I Am Increasingly Hoping That Clark Enters the Race

Just not satisfied with any of the other options.

I don't know if he can pull it off politically he a good speaker,but does not strike me as a good campaigner. Clark has ecutive experience, does not pander, is fearless, displined, and (other than Kucinich) has the most liberal platform of any of the candidates.

[dae]

31. I'm with you on your 2nd statement, "Just not satisfied

with any of the other options."
Am I a cultist? You tell me, I think Clark is the only one that can truly get us out of the mess that Bush and the GOP have this country in. Hillary and present company I consider baggage laden and/or inexperienced.
That being said, I will vote for whoever is the eventual Democratic nominee.
:dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem::dem:

[KingofNewOrleans]

34. If you believe that Clark is

the only onethat can truly get us out of the mess, then yes I think you're into hero-worship or cultism. If you think he's the best choice to do that or healthcare, etc... that's fine, but the "only one" is where the problem comes in, in my opinion.

[dae]

35. Then I'll rephrase, "Clark is the only one of the current

announced Democrats that I think can get this country on track."
No announced candidates have published as detailed position papers as Clark and stayed true to liberal ideals.
:kick::kick::kick:

[PresidentObama]

33. Why hasn't Clark announced?

I understand when his supporters say he's holding off to announce, but he isn't Al Gore. He can't hold off to announce, and expect to jump in and make a huge splash. He has to get in early, make a big impact, and hopefully things will turn out for him. After Kerry announced he wasn't running, I quickly said I wanted either Clark or Gore. Clark seems the more likely of the two, but where the hell is he?!? Wes, why haven't you announced??

Is he going to be part of the Democratic candidates debates? Is he going to announce before then, and don't you HAVE to be an official candidate to be in those debates?

I'm in NO hurry, but I really like Barack Obama. I wish Clark would make up his mind on whether to run or not, and get in or not. So I know whether to shift my efforts from Clark to Obama, and not waste anymore time. I'm getting a little antsy.

[FrenchieCat]

37. Hi, Kerry2008.......

listen...this is how I see it: Wes Clark has a mighty high hill to climb. He has to decide if he can realistically climb it and whether this is what he should do.

I believe that Wes wants to make sure that his voice is included in the debate to make a difference......

I don't believe that people give him due credit for how he consistenly affects issues and policies on the long term while no one is really looking.

As an example...take the issue of Iran--I am of the opinion that if Clark would not have forced debate on this issue day in, day out, Iran would not be discussed in the way that it currently is.....a way not favorable to Bush, PNAC and the NeoCons.

by that I mean concrete work on behalf of Wes Clark--

Wes talking to members of congress on background on this for some time
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/02/maxine_waters_on_hardball_wes.html

Wes making a pointed splash with harsh words on the Huffington pages that culmulated in his being targeted by the Republican Jewish Coalition and by every Jewish NeoCon writing for the media, including the Lieberman media wing, TNR.
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/01/wes_clark_and_the_new_york_mon.html
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/02/the_new_york_sun_confirms_it_j.html
http://www.rjchq.org/media/pdf/wesclarkad-1.pdf

constantly bringing up the refrain that we should be talking to Iran, to the point that others have now adopted quite a few of his views.....word for word.....
General Wesley Clark began the drumbeat calling for direct contact with Iran.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29624
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/02/wes_clark_on_iran_information.html
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/01/iran_and_us_politics_the_good.html
which has had some "adjusting" and "toning down" their Rethorics....
Before - http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/world/?content_id=5400
After - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/02/18/politics/p163857S76.DTL

And also...Wes Clark doing what he can to sound the alarm to the netroot community...by literally blogging about it himself......
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/1/115124/5806

and Bring it up consistently on Fox where he has a national voice...
http://securingamerica.com/taxonomy/term/23

The truth is that when you type "Wesley Clark Iran" into googles, one gets 46 pages of reference
http://www.google.com/search?q=Wesley+Clark+iran&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&pwst=1&start=0&sa=N

Wes Clark has discussed Iran and kept it as a point of debate to the point that his recommendation that Iran be given a seat at the table when dealing with Iraq and when dealing with Iran's possible Nuclear ambitions was put in as a recommendation in the Baker report (yes.....Wes was talking about that by his lonesome way before the Baker commission was ever even established.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29624

If Wes Clark had not taken such an offensive approach on Iran, there might not be the kind of talk that we are now finally hearing from the corporate media-
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-US&q=war+with+iran
By that I mean that the News media is now countering the notion of any type of offensive against Iran as something not required or recommended; and even our usually reactive congress is talking proactively about curtailing Bush's power on this specific issue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/30/washington/30cnd-congress.html

MSNBC Scarborough Country transcript from Tuesday, Feb. 6 where Joe Scarborough and his panel talk about "whether we‘re one step closer to a coming war with Iran. That country blames the United States for kidnapping an Iranian diplomat in Baghdad. Is it more saber rattling on the part of the Iranian government, or is it the final straw in an inevitable showdown?"

Here is the Scarborough Country video link to watch this interesting dialogue:
http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=B6F7C0BF-83AE-469E-A401-03A4360D1D79&f=00&fg=email

I realize that Wes Clark is not the only one to have talked about this issue of Iran. His good friend Sy Hersh has been sounding the bell as well....but bottomline is that I believe that Wes Clark has changed the direction of this one topic....and for the better. The Hate talk against Iran has significantly abaited, and has been replaced with a more sensible debate on the issue that looks at the long term..

Sooooo....I said all of this to say, Hang in there Kerry2008!:headbang: ....because I'll tell you, I think that Wes Clark deserves a bit of our patience, a lot of our respect, and some admiration. For being someone that the media rarely ever discusses.....I will tell you that Wes Clark is effective and doing work for this country that has much more significance than a Book Tour or Photo Ops.

He will be in Saudi Arabia for the next few days...and I'm sure that Iran will again be words that he utters to whomever will listen....and in this case, it will be the world stage:
http://www.pressreleasenetwork.com/newsroom/news_view.phtml?news_id=2023

[PresidentObama]

39. Thanks, FrenchieCat.

Just very antsy and I really want his voice in the national debate :hi:

I'm glad he's talking about Iran, and showing his strengths foreign policy wise. He'll be a great candidate if he runs!!

[FrenchieCat]

40. Understand...and add me to your list of "antsy"....

Also know that you inspired me to start a thread that basically mirrors to some degree my response to you. Considering how long it was, I figure....Why in the hell not? :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3124002