Who does Edwards think he is to insist that Hillary take responsibility for her "mistake"

[mtnsnake]

by apologizing formally for it?

I love how the man stands up there on stage cherishing all the attention that the media gives him whenever he preaches how Hillary just shouldn't be taken seriously until she admits her "mistake" (like he did). You'd almost think he was some Sunday School preacher the way he comes off.

Hey, John, someone needs to inform you once and for all that Hillary made no mistake when she voted for the Iraq War, and neither did you make any mistake. She knew exactly what she was doing, just like you did...and Kerry, Dodd, Biden, and right down the line.

AFAIC, Hillary is more honest than you and the other apologists just because she is NOT pleading innocent by virtue of "mistake" like you and the other ones who voted for the IWR & then painted it as a mistake only after it was politically safe for all of you to do so.

Sure, John Edwards would love it if Hillary admits she made a "mistake" and makes a formal apology. He knows that if she does that she'll come off as being wishy washy and her ratings will take a nosedive. He'd like nothing better.

To vote for that friggin war and then try to paint yourself as being innocent because you made a "mistake", is dishonest, not noble.

Make no mistake. None of you who voted for the IWR made any mistake, not you, Hillary, or anyone.

ON EDIT, to clarify: By using the word "mistake", they're making like their vote was some kind of an "accident", which it was NOT.

[saltpoint]

1. John Edwards gets my vote in the 2008 primary. n/t

[MemphisTiger]

2. They did make a mistake by not questioning the intelligence presented

to them more vigorously. They have much to apologize for and he has already apologized for it. That is one of the many reasons I will not vote for Hillary.

[venable]

6. if you look at the consequences of the vote

then how can you not say it was a mistake?

I am a big Edwards supporter, and I wish he hadn't made that vote, and I know why he made it, and I know that he sees the dead and the misery and the decline of our country's standing and the looting of the treasury and the maimed and the heartbroken, and he very sincerely wishes that he did not make that vote. It was a mistake.

[Dr.Phool]

3. He probably thinks he's John Edwards or something.

Hopefully, he doesn't think he's Dick Cheney.

[Kare]

4. yes they did

they all made a mistake, an honest mistake.

There are people who would like to see Hillary admit that it was a bad decision albeit justified at the time by what they were told.

We don't need some one else in the white house who can't admit when they have made a mistake.
You'll notice that Bush has never said that HE has made mistakes, he takes responsibility for the mistakes that were made but they weren't HIS mistakes.
Do we need that again? No.

[Dhalgren]

10. I think what the OP is saying is that none of the politicians who voted

for the IWR were fooled or in error in what they thought to be true. They each knew exactly what they were doing and were doing it for purely political reasons. To say now that they made a "mistake" is a lie (according to the OP), because the only "mistake" they made was in not having the foresight to know that this would all go down the tubes. What Edwards is saying is that he made a mistake in judging how the war would go and how public opinion would turn. All of the politicians back in 2002 knew full-well what the truth was regarding the IWR and if, in fact, they didn't know the truth then they are not competent to hold public office. They can't have it both ways - either they were too stupid to understand what was going on or they miscalculated the politics of the situation - either way they shouldn't get a pass by simply apologizing. I think that is basically what the OP is saying...

[invictus]

12. Wells said. nt

[mtnsnake]

13. Yup, that's pretty much the gist of it

Thank you.

[SaveElmer]

5. John Edwards has not taken responsibility for hi svote...

He just claims he has...

He is trying to have it both ways...

I have to give him credit...he has balls criticizing Hillary for her IWR vote when the man was a co-sponsor of the bill...

[MemphisTiger]

18. He said it on his recent Meet the Press interview

[SaveElmer]

20. You mean here...

Where he blames Bush and former Clinton administration officials for leading him astray...

He is trying to have it both ways...

MR. RUSSERT: Why were you so wrong?

SEN. EDWARDS: For the same reason a lot of people were wrong. You know, we—the intelligence information that we got was wrong. I mean, tragically wrong. On top of that I’d—beyond that, I went back to former Clinton administration officials who gave me sort of independent information about what they believed about what was happening with Saddam’s weapon—weapons programs. They were also wrong. And, based on that, I made the wrong judgment. I, I, I want to go another step, though, because I think this is more than just weapons of mass destruction. I mean, I—at the—I remember vividly what I was thinking about at the time. It was, first, I was convinced he had weapons of mass destruction. That’s turned out to be completely wrong and false. I had internal conflict because I was worried about what George Bush would do. I didn’t have—I didn’t have confidence about him doing the work that needed to be done with the international community, the lead-up to a potential invasion in Iraq. I didn’t know, in fairness, that he would be as incompetent as he’s been in the administration of the war. But I had—there were at least two things going on. It wasn’t just the weapons of mass destruction I was wrong about. It’s become absolutely clear—and I’m very critical of myself for this—become absolutely clear, looking back, that I should not have given this president this authority.

[venable]

22. what?

"I was wrong"

this is taking responsibility, whether you choose to recognize it or not.

[SaveElmer]

26. ...

MR. RUSSERT: Why were you so wrong?

SEN. EDWARDS: For the same reason a lot of people were wrong. You know, we—the intelligence information that we got was wrong. I mean, tragically wrong. On top of that I’d—beyond that, I went back to former Clinton administration officials who gave me sort of independent information about what they believed about what was happening with Saddam’s weapon—weapons programs. They were also wrong. And, based on that, I made the wrong judgment. I, I, I want to go another step, though, because I think this is more than just weapons of mass destruction. I mean, I—at the—I remember vividly what I was thinking about at the time. It was, first, I was convinced he had weapons of mass destruction. That’s turned out to be completely wrong and false. I had internal conflict because I was worried about what George Bush would do. I didn’t have—I didn’t have confidence about him doing the work that needed to be done with the international community, the lead-up to a potential invasion in Iraq. I didn’t know, in fairness, that he would be as incompetent as he’s been in the administration of the war. But I had—there were at least two things going on. It wasn’t just the weapons of mass destruction I was wrong about. It’s become absolutely clear—and I’m very critical of myself for this—become absolutely clear, looking back, that I should not have given this president this authority.

[venable]

29. I hand it right back to you

Let me take your own citation as proof of my argument: As you note, Edwards said:


"It wasn’t just the weapons of mass destruction I was wrong about. It’s become absolutely clear—and I’m very critical of myself for this—become absolutely clear, looking back, that I should not have given this president this authority."


He said what he did, and how he did it. He did what he should have done. Then he made the wrong vote, for which he says "I was wrong"


Do you deny that the Clinton people thought there were WMD? Please don't.

Thanks in advance.

[SaveElmer]

31. So Edwards can't even get his own apology straight...

Again...when you take responsibility...you don't blame others...not only was he blaming Bush, but the Clinton people as well....

Which is is...does he take responsibility, or was he fed and acted on lies from the Bush administration...

[GreenArrow]

48. shhhh...

He (Edwards) hopes you won't notice.

[Cameron27]

50. Psst, Hillary did not

co-sponsor the thing. John Edwards doesn't want you to remember THAT either.

[venable]

56. with all due respect you guys are not having a conversation about this

you are making snide remarks about someone you don't like.

you don't listen to a thing. you don't respond to anything. you simply make snide remarks.

Edwards could drag each of you out of a burning building and you'd question his motives. It's not worth discussing anymore.

Let's be more adult.

[Cameron27]

59. With all do respect,

Edwards' should act like an adult, take full responsibility for his own faulty judgment in co-sponsoring an IWR amendment, and stop blaming the Clintons.

He had the same information as everyone else, and he blew it. His fault, not the Clintons and that's how his apology should have been worded, AND it should have included his co-sponsorship. He'd do well to stop pointing fingers and so should you:

"you don't listen to a thing. you don't respond to anything. you simply make snide remarks."

You're the one making snide remarks about DU'ers, instead of answering questions about your candidate.

[venable]

62. never mind then. sigh

psst - he has taken responsibility. but seriously, never mind. no future in this particular dialogue. really really tired of this. read the friggin post, and say something in response to that.
I'm heading over to the adult table.

[Cameron27]

64. :sigh:

No he hasn't taken any responsibility and hasn't apologized for co-sponsoring Lieberman's S.J.RES.46. He didn't just vote for the IWR, he was a cheerleader for it.

He was wrong BUT, the intelligence was wrong, the Clinton people (those devils) told him to vote for it, he trusted Bush ---

This IS the adult table venable, and the discussion is about a war in which thousands of lives have been lost and your candidate's horrific judgment regarding it. Your condescending remarks won't change the facts and your sighs won't stop the questions.

[venable]

66. one more time

he did take responsibililty, no matter what you say. everywhere in the world it is recognized that he apologized and took responsibility, and said so in the most unequivocal, not deflecting way: I was wrong.

he did not blame the Clintons - he did what every single democrat who took the vote seriously did, they asked everyone who might know something.

my problem with this is that you absolutely refuse to recognize the two above points, no matter how many times you say it. you respond as if I hadn't said anything.

and nothing is more condescending that to tell me that thousands have died, as if i didn't know that or didn't care. that is beyond condescending. it is insulting.


finally, this business about him co-sponsoring: it is one vote. he made that one vote. co-sponsoring doesnt make it more likely. it just means that he believed that there was an immediate WMD threat. that is where he was wrong. this is a red herring, this co-sponsorship note, no matter how much it delights those who dislike Edwards.

[SaveElmer]

63. I like Edwards fine...

And would have no problem voting for him...however HE is the one making an issue of his non-apology apology, so a look at what he actually said certainly seems in order...

I personally think he has nothing to apologize for...and I am sorry he felt the need to buckle under and at least appear that he did...

[Botany]

7. John Edwards might think he is an American expressing his thoughts.

Hillary always tries to be all things to all people .... she could have said the she
was sorry for being taken in by the lies about Iraq and she regrets her vote now ....
but no, she will not.

Go John Edwards!

[Zensea]

8. Maybe he thinks he's a citizen

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond though seeing as how your post exhibits some of the finest king hell rationalization I've ever seen.
Or maybe it's just flat out obfuscation.

[Bitwit1234]

9. What I don't understand is why -- with all those dems that vote for it

Hillary is the only one that keeps getting trashed for it. Since about 30 dems voted for the war why is SHE they only one responsible for it. I told you the republics can just sit back and watch the dems tear themselves apart. Now Edwards has joined the trashing of Hillary. He would be jumping on Obama also if he was not afraid they would call him racist.

I think they should all shut the hell up about each other and concentrate on the republics. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO NEED TO HAVE THEIR FAULTS MADE PUBLIC.

[Adelante]

19. I agree with you

They should all be held responsible, not just Hillary, and none of them should be running for president.

[longship]

11. Others disagree with you.

Hillary doesn't have to explain her IWR vote, she has to explain her somewhat bellicose position on Iraq since that vote. She won't have my vote until she does.

It won't matter, though. She's not going to get the nomination anyway.

[leftyladyfrommo]

14. I think they did make a mistake - they should have questioned

more. They should have taken the time to do this right. I think politics played huge part of all of this. Bush was extremely popular at that time. And he was absolutely awful to anyone who dared to question him. But that shouldn't have mattered. These guys should have stood up to him. Even if they got rolled over by the Republicans.

Jeez. Even I knew that Bush wanted to go to war with Iraq. Even I wondered what the hell was going on with not letting the UN inspectors finish their job - they hadn't found anything. Even I knew that Sadaam was contained. Even I knew that starting a war in the Middle East was going to be a huge mistake.

[EndElectoral]

15. Well, Feingold and Boxer knew...They voted against it. HRC needs to apologize. They don't.

[cali]

16. Feingold and Boxer and

twenty other Senators voted against the IWR

[mtnsnake]

17. None of them should apologize for their "mistake". They should apologize for their "crime"

or at least for their "inhumane injustice" that they caused with their vote.

[venable]

23. the war is a crime, the vote was just wrong

the inhumane consequences are why Edwards said he was wrong.

he voted his conscience, with the info he had, and it produced this horror.

so he was wrong, and he says so.

[GreenArrow]

53. if the "war is a crime"

(and it clearly was and is) then what does that make voting in favor of commiting a crime? Let's assume for just a moment that he had bad info/was misled (which I don't believe for an instant). Ignorance of the law, as they say is no excuse. But I don't even believe he was ignorant of the law; rather, he made a rather safe calculation that one can break laws with impunity if there is no one to enforce them; after all, who's going to stand up to the USofA, and heck, his political ambitions were on the line. Chances were we'd kick Iraq's ass, pronto, they'd welcome us with flowers, and everything would be just hunky dory. Oops!

And it's not like the inhumane consequences weren't obvious before we even went into Iraq. If he had any doubts, he could have simply looked at the first Gulf War. If the man had an ounce of shame, he would not even be running after making a mistake of this caliber. Yes, he was (and is wrong) but he doesn't even understand why.

Hillary gets no credit either, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander right? If Hillary is to get criticized - rightfully so -- so do the rest; it might be in candidate Edwards' best interest to minimize dicussion of this issue.

[oasis]

24. Nobody "knew" for sure about WMD. How many times have 100 senators agreed

on a issue?

[Skidmore]

21. Who is Hillary to insist that she doesn't need to take responsibility

for her vote on IWR. What is it for those who have been maimed by this war or the families that have lost loved ones for her--tough toenails?
Too bad? Yes, she owes the nation an apology for not only voting for this war but supporting it for so long. She certainly hasn't convinced me she does nothing other than support it.

[Colobo]

25. Remember she's the Queen

She already won the nomination and she's above all criticism.

[Forkboy]

27. The same type of person Hillary is for "demanding" Obama give the Geffen $ back

"...voted for the IWR & then painted it as a mistake only after it was politically safe for all of you to do so.

Yeah,she's a model of courage with her stand :eyes:

[goclark]

33. I like Hilliary but she reminds me of a * in the WH

if you make a mistake, say it.

He can't and it worries me that she can't either.

[Forkboy]

49. It's troubling,to say the least

After so many years of Bush I'd love to hear something that doesn't make me cringe.

[LittleClarkie]

28. A mistake is a mistake

Intentional or no.

[AtomicKitten]

30. There is no difference between those that voted 'yes' on the IWR.

I am not impressed with the performances - the apologies or explanations or excuses - although it appears some folks are scoring them as to content, sincerity, precise wording, etc. like an Olympic event. In matters of war and death, an after the fact 'my bad' is ludicrous. In a perfect world, none of them would be eligible to run for president having already demonstrated poor judgment. But it is what it is and we as voters can consider the facts and decide what matters as the criteria by which we choose which horse to back in the primary.

[PresidentObama]

34. Beyond the poor judgment....

I think we can agree that they'd be better then any GOP candidate, and thats why I personally don't disqualify IWR candidates. Because the stakes are too high. They made a HUGE mistake, yes. But if they know they made that mistake, and are working to fix the wrongs and bring our boys home...to me thats what counts the most. Any nominee will get my support!!

EDIT: OH, another thing we can agree on...Gore 2008!!

:patriot:

[AtomicKitten]

35. in the general

Any nominee will get my support!!

However, I will vote my conscience in the primary.

[PresidentObama]

36. I wouldn't expect anything less.

Do what your heart asks of you!!

[Dr Fate]

32. Moral, correct, honest, common sense to know when you are wrong.

Actually, I agree with Edwards 100%- and I never said an ill word about him once I found out he had the guts to admit his mistake.'

You are right about one thing though-Hillary made no mistake- she was for the fucking war until recently.

[Clarkie1]

37. I agree it was a jackass comment from Edwards.

His apology does not somehow make him magically qulaified for the Presidency. It's a black mark on his record, and we must hold him accountable by not rewarding poor judgement.

[k_jerome]

39. how did Clark vote? nt.

[Clarkie1]

40. And another jackass comment....nt

[k_jerome]

41. oh yeah, we have to take his word for it. keep bashing 'em...

your boy is too scared.

[Clarkie1]

43. Are you older than 10? Clark is more concerned with Iran than winning the Presidency. nt

[k_jerome]

44. yeah, i hear that a lot from Clarkies. sounds like excuses to me....

and fear on his part.

any of the top 3 candidates would wipe the floor with him

[Clarkie1]

45. Whatever you say, kJerome. What you say has no importance to me. nt

[k_jerome]

46. i know. as i said...keep bashing 'em all. nt.

[citizen snips]

38. What is Hillary's Iraq plan?

[MrSlayer]

42. I loved Kucinich mocking them all yesterday.

Some say they were fooled, misled, duped by George W. Bush? He was awesome.

[GreenArrow]

47. yeah, imagine...

being fooled by George W. Bush.

Not one of them was fooled. They weren't duped by the horseshit, they helped sell it.

[MrSlayer]

55. Absolutely.

It makes me sick.

[Forkboy]

51. It was a political calculation. She doesn't apologize because to her it isn't a mistake

She made a gamble that the "war" would go smoothly and it didn't.Now she's too cowardly (IMO) to admit she was played politics with the live of thousands of Americans,and who knows how many innocents in Iraq.

This country can,and should,do so much better than another political coward.

[GreenArrow]

54. no she won't admit that

and niether will Edwards or anyone else who voted for it.

The country should do better than one of these political cowards, but I doubt it will, and I'm not sure it even can.

[Forkboy]

58. I wish I could disagree with assesment

But I can't. :(

[Warren Stupidity]

52. He probably thinks he is running against her for the nomination. nt.

[usregimechange]

57. I agree with John.

[eridani]

60. What all IWR voters need to apologize for--

--is plain old cowardice. They can claim all they like that they didn't think Bush would go to war without coming back to Congress first, but that's a big steaming pile of bullshit. What they were afraid of is the possibility that the conquest of Iraq might have turned out to be easy, and if it had they would have been politically screwed. THAT'S what all the "uncertainty" was about. It could have been the case that Iraqis would have been completely cowed, tired of war, and willing to submit to foreign dictatorship because they were willing to take the chance that it would be marginally better than Saddam's dictatorship. Had the Bushies not decided to totally strip the country of all its assets, that could well have happened.

[MODemocrat]

61. At one time I was up to my eyeballs in favor of John Edwards

Not anymore; he lost me when he apologized ONLY after the war grew so unpopular. He's changed so much,
and the new John Edwards is simply not attractive to me anymore. Yes, he's nice to look at and to listen to, but that's about it. It's very disappointing; so I'm supporting Senator Clinton 100%.:nopity: :shrug:

[wetcanvas]

65. He is trying to win...

and box her in. The long knives are out for her right now. They (Edwrdas and Obama)see her as vulnerable, skating the issue, that the press isn't giving her a pass, and they want to take her out. Sooner is better for them because oce she is over the hump on this, they don't have much ammo left.

[GeorgeGist]

67. If you meant accident...

you made a mistake in critical thinking.