Clinton Faces (Not So) Friendly Fire

[ProSense]

POLITISCOPE

Clinton Faces (Not So) Friendly Fire

By John Mercurio, NationalJournal.com
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Feb. 22, 2007

Take a good, hard look at Bill Clinton. When the 2008 Democratic primary is over, the former president (and would-be first husband) might look a lot different.

The battle between Bill Clinton's wife and Barack Obama could have a far-reaching impact on the former president's long-term legacy.

Since the earliest days of his first term, Clinton has been a favorite GOP piñata and fundraising tool. But for the first time since he entered the White House in 1992, Clinton's record as president will be openly scrutinized, dissected -- and yes, criticized -- in a Democratic primary. That race, especially the battle between his wife, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., and Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., could have a far-reaching impact on the former president's long-term legacy, particularly among two crucial groups of voters: women and blacks.

In some ways, Bill Clinton has only his wife to blame for such threats to his legacy. After all, he is (arguably) a semi-innocent bystander in his wife's brewing fight, the indirect target of anti-Hillary salvos fired by Democratic rivals, who can justify their criticisms by noting her efforts to own policy achievements compiled by her husband's administration.

Such critiques could come at great risk in a party still overflowing with adoring Clinton fans. But strategists from opposing camps believe it's a deep quiver from which to launch arrows, as long as those arrows are carefully chosen and fired with precision. Democrats may be unlikely to accept criticisms of Clinton's record on the economy or civil rights, for example, but they're willing to consider challenges on issues like campaign finance, health care, ethics, some aspects of foreign policy and, of course, his personal behavior.

"It's been papered over for a while. But disagreements have been there since day one," one Obama strategist said this week. "This is a fight some Democrats have wanted to have for years."

more...

[Canuckistanian]

1. I'll put Bill Clinton's "legacy" against any Republican's

And as far as the current squatter in the White House goes, the Big Dawg holds up just fine.

[ProSense]

2. What a lot of people don't understand is how, despite that legacy,

the system gave rise to the current squatter?

My guess is some hardballs were dropped in favor of bipartisanspit balls.

This is not a comparison between Bush Jr. and Clinton.

[blm]

Bill's REAL legacy IS the Bush2 regime.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[Canuckistanian]

7. I see what you mean

And I've heard this argument before. A lot of people wondered why Iran-Contra and support for Saddam weren't questioned or investigated.

Sometimes, the sin of OMISSION is greater than that of COMMISSION.

But I seriously doubt that this subject is coming up in the primaries.

[blm]

3. Bill's REAL legacy IS the Bush2 regime.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[AtomicKitten]

4. Really?

I could have sworn Kerry lost the election to Bush2.

Revisionist history is a palliative measure for some.

On edit: FTR, Gore won and fought it all the way to the Supreme Court. He did what was expected of him.

[blm]

5. Chronologically impaired? No Bush should've even been able to run for governor

in 1993, let alone president in 1999. That is BILL CLINTON'S LEGACY of refusing to pursue all the outstanding matters left him on IranContra, BCCI, Iraqgate and CIA drugrunning.

Sorry you have trouble with matters of CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER.

[AtomicKitten]

8. Your blaming is as misguided as it is misplaced.

I realize you read an article that spoke to you, but there is plenty of other material out there that disputes the faux journalistic, convoluted, improperly sourced, opinion piece you post here repeatedly.

Expand your horizons. You might learn something new that will open up your eyes. You are stuck in a groove like a broken record.

[ProSense]

10. In the primaries vote your conscience, vote against Hillary! n/t

[AtomicKitten]

11. In the primaries,

I have already stated I won't for ANY of those who voted 'yes' on the IWR.

[blm]

13. Then produce even ONE article that reports on Clinton's pursuit of outstanding matters that

of IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning that he inherited.

And FYI - CIA drugrunning report came out in 1996 - the reporter was refuted by denying and downplaying his charges by the administration - but CIA documents revealed in 1998 that the reporter was correct. What WH went after that reporter and denied his report?

Why was Clinton protecting Poppy Bush at the expense of the constitution, the American people, the Democratic party and, as the Webb story details, at the expense of many black communities where IranContra's tons of cheap cocaine were DUMPED, fueling the crack epidemic?

[oasis]

22. Why haven't you condemned Rep. Maxine Waters for her part in the "coverup"?

Maxine fully researched the story, and even entered Gary Webb's "Dark Alliance" into the congressional record.

During the 80's and 90's ,her district was directly impacted by the influx of crack cocaine,yet she failed to expose William Jefferson Clinton's role in the affair. Rep. Waters is one of the most outspoken members of the House and is in a "safe" district so what has she to fear?

If you take Rep. Waters to task for keeping Clinton's involvement under wraps it would lend more credibility to your ongoing crusade against the Clintons.

[blm]

23. Why does that excuse what Clinton did? Was Gary Webb maligned by WH or not?

Don't try to push this onto Waters in an effort to PRETEND it wasn't Bill's WH that controlled the information that was hidden or released.



And since I used to fight pretty damn hard WITH you FOR the Clintons for so many years, you would think you'd try to understand SOME level of disppointment I have with him now after reading his book where ALL the BushInc crimes we were totally disgusted and concerned over received very little ink, and in some cases NO INK AT ALL.

That was fine with you because you were still invested in Clinton. It wasn't fine with me because I was always invested in exposing the BFEE and their crimes of office.

Guess what, oasis? Had MY PRIORITY been served there would have BEEN no 9-11 and NO Bush2 regime.

[oasis]

24. Please don't sidestep, should Rep.Maxine Waters come clean or not?

:shrug:

[blm]

25. Waters did what she could with the information she had, what did Bill do?

Plus, Bill had the added advantage of putting ALL Democrats into bunker mentality protecting him in 1998 when the CIA documents were finally revealed. Convenient for the BFEE and Bill since the media was taking no notice of that information that corroborated Webb's report.

You are doing the sidestepping by trying to make Waters more responsible for documents that ONLY BILL COULD SEE and release.

I am sure Bill told Maxine that he couldn't control what the CIA would let her see, We know now that even Cheney as VP could declassify the most secretive material at his choosing.

So - oasis - do you really want to continue to feed the perception that this is all about a crusade against the Clintons? I was defending Clinton alongside you and many others for at least a few YEARS and you really think that my concerns after reading his book are illegitimate?

[oasis]

26. It would take someone of Maxine's stature

to blow the lid off of the entire "scandal" and bring down the whole house of cards.Think about it blm, if what you say can be verified and needs to be acted upon, why would you not want a member of the House to expose it?

[blm]

27. Let's pretend Waters had more sway in DC and with the media than Bill Clinton.

.

[oasis]

28. That's beside the point. Let's get it all out now. If BC is guilty

of covering up for the Bushies, then Maxine is guilty for not exposing what she knew. Additionally, she must have confided in certain other members of congress. This raises another question: why haven't they come forward?

As far as "sway in DC" is concerned, a person as insignificant as Paula Jones held sway at one time. All it takes is to call a press conference to say you have some dirt on the Clintons. You know how it works. Who's pretending now?

[blm]

30. Sure, oasis, YOU believe CIA drugrunning wasn't downplayed by Clintons?

Waters did what she could with what she had which was very little compared to what a president can access.

What did Bill do with what HE HAD ACCESS TO? Protect Poppy Bush or expose the entire operation to US citizens and especially the black community.

Your argument assumes Maxine Waters had exact same access to the information needed as Bill Clinton had.

[ProSense]

6. Gore won and still America got Bush! That was some setup n/t

[Canuckistanian]

9. "Bush2" = Gore's loss of the stolen election

What the Prosense means, is, Clinton never properly investigated the roots of Republican malfeasance, namely, Iran-Contra.

It was never thoroughly prosecuted and too many went unpunished and went on to glorious careers with Shrub.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeFleur1]

14. Different Person

So...this woman, the wife of Bill Clinton...is considered an extension of him?
That's what this thread seems to suggest.

Hillary is her own person. SHE does not have a presidential record.
I would guess that's what she would say to those assuming that she is her husband's 'agent'.

[SaveElmer]

15. So the strategy is to go after the man with a 65% approval rating...

Six years after he left office...

Yeah...go for it...that'll work!

[ProSense]

16. Did you ever stop to think that people have valid criticisms?

"Do you approve or disapprove of the way Laura Bush is handling her job as first lady?"

12/15-17/06
Approve 76%
Disapprove 18%
Unsure 6%

This is not above approval ratings.

[SaveElmer]

17. This is about political strategy...

And if their strategy is to attack the record of Bill Clinton...they are going to lose...

While no one is perfect, and there are things to criticize about every politician, a political strategy that involves attacking the record of a highly successful, very popular ex-president...and who btw is probably the most gifted politician of his generation...in order to attack his wife politically is about the dumbest strategy I have ever heard...

If it is true...I say go for it...

However given the source is a right wing magazine, I would need more evidence to show me these other candidates are really that stupid...

[ProSense]

18. Who's strategy exactly?

National Journal is a RW magazine?

Are you thinking of National Review?

[SaveElmer]

19. Other candidates...

National Review is a RW mag...which is why I doubt the thrust of the article.

[ProSense]

20. This is a primary. The article is in National Journal, not National Review. n/t

[SaveElmer]

21. You are right...

Got the mags mixed up...

[paulk]

29. OTOH

here's what media matters has to say about the author, John Mercurio -

http://mediamatters.org/items/200505110007