Moderates or centrists have never been agents of change

[Lerkfish]

it takes an extremist positioned against a system to change that system.

What we have now is a fledgling fascist regime, with a weakened congress and judiciary and a "unitary executive" in office.

The system is already extreme in one direction. Electing a moderate or centrist, or adopting moderate or centrist strategies will, even at the very best, simply tone down the current system slightly. A slightly less fascist regime is still a fascist regime.

To correct the current system requires extremists that are opposed enough to the current system to effect change in that system.

Many put down "leftist extremists" here who are anti-war. But I would suggest that we all need to become "leftist extremists" to effect any change whatsoever in the current system.

[underpants]

1. In Salem the conservatives said "BURN THEM! they are witches!"

The moderates said "Well, you know maybe we should burn a few just in case"

Liberals said "They aren't witches"

:bounce:

George Clooney told that story and I thought it was funny and apt.

[Lerkfish]

2. yes, very...thanks for that!

[Deep13]

6. Um, err, I need to point out that they were hanged, not burnt.

Except for Proctor who was squished. Sorry.

[SaveElmer]

16. Giles Corey was squished...

One of my ancestors was convicted but escaped...

[wyldwolf]

3. sure they have - when change has been needed.

In just the last 100 years, we've seen Woodrow Wilson, who created the Federal Trade Commission, the Clayton Antitrust Act, the Underwood Tariff, the Federal Farm Loan Act and most notably the Federal Reserve System. He imposed an income tax on the wealthy, set up the War Industries Board, promoted labor union growth, supervised agriculture and food production through the Lever Act, and took over control of the railroads.

FDR was the epitomy of "centrist," combining both liberal and conservative policies to create one of the most successful presidential administrations in our history. Not only did he create social security and a host of other economic relief packages, he championed re-armament, created the first free trade acts, and his personal letters reveal an admiration of Mussolini's corporatism. (Many historians believe "The New Deal" owed a debt to corporatism. I'll let YOU investigate that.) Plus, the "New Deal Coalition" was a centrist one.

Clinton. If anyone doesn't believe he was an "agent of change" from the trickle-down policies of Reagan/Bush, you were either asleep or weren't born yet.

[HereSince1628]

4. Sometimes, maybe often, it takes extremists just to hold the line.

But, 'extremists' in their exertion breathe hard, grunt, drip with sweat and even cuss. In the 'make nice' world of the DCDems that is disgustingly vulgar. Don't count on any of them taking off their bling to join the effort.

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. Bill Clinton did a pretty good job changing the country

[Lerkfish]

7. if that were true, then country would be in fine shape now.

He didn't change the country, he temporarily held the wolves at bay. In case you haven't noticed, the wolves are back and worse than ever.

I liked Clinton, but nothing he did prevented what we are now experiencing, did it?


so, no, a centrist does not effect "change", maybe improvement of the existing system, but that's it.

[wyldwolf]

8. faulty reasoning

Anything changed can be changed back with the stroke of a president's pen.

But I know one "progressive" who was an agent for change. Ralph Nader. Look how he changed the country from the Clinton years to the Bush years.

[Lerkfish]

9. LOL!

I find your posts highly amusing.

[wyldwolf]

10. yeah. Nader was the agent of change we all needed.

[SaveElmer]

11. Moderates have always been the agents of change...

Washington, Lincoln, both Roosevelts, Wilson...and on and on...

Can you name these alleged extremists ?

[Lerkfish]

14. do you guys carpool?

you can always depend on wyldwolf, savelmer, atomickitten and others to show up in threads like these and relentlessly browbeat people in a concerted effort.

:shrug:

[SaveElmer]

15. That's funny...

Wonder if the other 95% of DUers that usually constitute a hallelujah chorus on threads like these carpool too...but I guess they don't bother you as much eh?

[Lerkfish]

18. well, right now, you guys hold 9 of 13 posts....

so I'd say your percentages are off.

:)

[SaveElmer]

21. Well I guess...

Either they are busy...or you need to jazz up the topic a bit...

But I'm sure they will be along!!!

[AtomicKitten]

20. interesting

... that you call-out and categorize DU'ers in light of what I had already posted below, or perhaps even that is considered brow-beating. I always thought it was just a difference of opinion. That's allowed, right?

Perhaps you would be more comfortable with the last go at an ignore system where you could exclude specific people from your threads. Sheeeesh.

[wyldwolf]

23. do you and the countless centrist-bashers?

[Lerkfish]

26. nope. I work alone. I think the difference is I"m not stumping for a particular

candidate, so I'm not working in concert with others.

not that hard to figure out, actually.

[wyldwolf]

27. discussions of centrism vs. leftism is much older than this election

[Lerkfish]

28. non-sequitor. that has nothing to do with whether I work alone or you work in concert

does it?

:shrug:

I'm willing to drop it, though, as counterproductive to the thread.

[wyldwolf]

30. but it has everything to do with whether we're "stumping for a specific candidate."

Right? :shrug:

We'll invite you over to our secret headquarters once you learn the handshake.

[Lerkfish]

31. not sure you even understand my point, but whatever

[wyldwolf]

32. It's obvious you think there is a secret society of centrists who mobilize on these threads.

You can always count on a "progressive" for entertainment.

[Forkboy]

12. Way too absolute a statement

The extremes and everything in between at one point or another has been an agent of change in this world,and in this country's short history.A lot of times ideas start as an extreme but over time it works it's way to the center where it get's traction.Other times the idea comes from the middle,an idea that no one may have thought of before.Don't be throwing out words like "never" and "always" all willy-nilly.

"I've told you a million times,"Do not exaggerate!""

[Lerkfish]

17. valid point.

[AtomicKitten]

13. "leftist extremists"

... are not the only ones that are anti-war and are often the antithesis of change simply by virtue of lack of focus vis a vis impatience rendering them incapable of concrete incremental step-by-step change. They imagine change coming at the end of a magic wand ...
* poof * voila!

[Zynx]

19. Yet change does not occur until the moderates and centrists side with

the reformers.

[wyldwolf]

24. How so?

[zbdent]

22. And then the Conservatives try to take the credit

for the very thing they opposed ... 20 years later ... when they wish that things would stay "the old-fashioned way" ...

[Lerkfish]

25. haha! great post!

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

29. take everything in moderation; especially moderation...

moderates have no soul