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WES CLARK IS WARNING US AGAIN!!

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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:32 AM
Original message
WES CLARK IS WARNING US AGAIN!!
I am reading all the blogs about WKC not jumping into the Political Race for President!! I read people deciding WHO can best lead our Country in 2008. I am going to try to make this simple:
2008 MAY NOT HAPPEN IF WE ATTACK IRAN...WHY YOU ASK!
Wes tried to warn us during his run for President in 2003! No one listened...and look where we are today.

1. The administration is beating the War Drums!!!

2. Cheney is meeting with heads of States, trying to build support, of our so called allies.

3. Ships sitting in the Gulf...etc...

4. Rhetoric, that Iran is supporting and providing artillery to our enemies.
I could go on and on....

Results for America.

War in Iran, and with Iran supporters..China, Russia etc..

Complete collapse of our financial institutions...break the bank. US $ not worth a dime!!

ELECTION CALLED OFF, MARTIAL LAW DECLARED. Won't matter WHO is our candidate..as the prospective
candidates, mostly Senators, stumping during lead up to war. 2 YEARS AWAY!!


American middle and lower class people in DEPRESSION...

So while, I want Wes to run, I know he see's us in another war, that has NO end, and elections could be passe'.
So as we are distracted by the media..ala Hillary versus Obama, Anna, and Britney, the WAR DRUMS ARE BEATING!!! Only Wes Clark sees this as a final blow to the U.S.A. He is fighting to save our hides....SHOULD WE LISTEN THIS TIME???????


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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. People Need To Listen
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 09:49 AM by Dinger
What you posted WILL happen if people blow it off. Listening to him and supporting him doesn't have to mean he has your vote, just listen, and then do something about it!
K & R!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yes they do..
This is NOT A GAME, and I know Wes knows MORE on what is happening in the ME. He is going to Saudi Arabia, this next weekend as the ONLY US person to Speak to the Muslim World Leaders on the Econimics of the World...He is doing all he can do to STOP this administration from distroying our Land!!! OMG, I hope people see beyond politics right now...we are facing a devasting act from our Gov't NOW!!!
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. General Clark has my undivided attention. n/t
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Bush has been
passing laws to put us under martial laws for years now..I hope to god he doesn't use them.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Imagine one theoretical reason why * wouldn't. I can't. n/t
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Military mutiny would be the only hope. Or else some Congressional action.
But most of Congress doesn't care. They're converting their dollars to valuable currency as we speak.
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meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. Military mutiny isn't likely to happen.
That would require men of principle, that understand the importance of our Constitution and our liberties. Those men are being drummed out of the service, especially the officers. Why do you think that Bush has been playing the General-of-the-Week game? He's had six years to harass, refuse to promote and push out the decent officers. Who's he replacing them with? Right Wing Authoritarians. Straight out of Conservatives Without Conscience. It's no coincidence that we're hearing about fundamentalists taking over the Air Force Academy. Similarly, we're seeing gay service-members driven out of the service with a vengeance. There's that chaplain, with a perfect service record, who converted to Wicca, and promptly got drummed out.

Bush is putting fundamentalist authoritarians in charge of the military. People who drank Bush's and Cheney's Kool-Aid. People who won't hesitate to pull the trigger when ordered to kill civilians.

Maybe a few years ago, if Bush had tried declaring martial law, or initiating a nuclear strike, the military would have refused his order and worked with Congress to remove Bush from power. Today, it ain't gonna happen.
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. He has been leading up to martial law!!
We are beating the wrong drum, as we are constantly being distracted by the media, with all the fluff as they know how fickle the American People are. We at DU, do pay attention, many of us know the scoop on the UNELECTED administration, but we do get sidetracked. The results could be devastating to THE U.S.A!!! I retired from my business, recently, because being a small business owner, the bottom is falling out, for many, which makes it hard to compete financially with the big guys on the block.
I remember my parents talking about the "great depression"! They warned that it could happen again, and only the very wealthy would be ruling the Country, and the world. We cannot let it happen again, as we see these people jumping off buildings as they, too, lose their financial wealth.

I am just sick at what is happening. I have declared Bankruptsy, and intend to make that a positive, to fight for our freedom, from this corrupt Gov't we have in office. We are REALLY facing a crises...and our CHILDREN, Grandchildren, etc. are going to pay the price...
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. Understand the modus operandi of a Master Magician with the
sleight of hand ploy. He gets you to focus on the right hand so you don't notice what the left hand is doing. Same thing here.

Question for everyone: Do you really think you can live your present life, as you wish, during martial law? Same job? Same amount of money? Same place you're living? Same websites? Same TV and radio? Same choices in the supermarket? Same relationships with friends and family? Same privacy of your actions and words? Would you mind accommodating the government interfering with just about everything concerning your existence? For how long if you think you wouldn't care?

And are we going to sit back, knowing what we know, and let it happen? Or will we go down fighting?
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. WOW, thats reality folks...
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 10:57 AM by capi888
Great post!!! Those who are young, don't realize the consequences of this administrations actions..what they plan to do...Look at NOL, see what they did!! Moved people from NO all over the Country...spread out the black community, to states such as Utah..to control the vote, to have them lose all their assets, and they gave them $2000.00 to live on...What a load!!! What do you think will happen to all of us? Only the tip of the ICEBURG!!
You are right we must FIGHT!!! SPEAK out in terms people understand!!! EVEN if its hard to hear...Its REALITY!!! WE HAVE TO SPEAK IN LANGUAGE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T WATCH POLITICAL DISCORD, UNDERSTAND WHAT EFFECTS THEIR POCKETBOOKS, AND FOOD ON THE TABLE!!

EDIT: LOOK HOW THEY ARE TREATING OUR FIGHTING SOLDIERS AT WALTER REED?????? DO WE NEED TO SAY MORE!
THEY GO TO POVERTY AREA'S TO RECRUIT TROOPS, WITH $$$. THEY ARE EITHER KILLED OR MAIMED FOR LIFE!! THEY DON'T CARE!!

GOOD POST!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
42. $2,000 and no mule.
No vote.
No voice.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. Yeah, but why would they pass such laws if they weren't planning to use them?
Scary. Very scary.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
43. * passed martial law!! Check it out!
Edited on Sat Feb-24-07 08:55 AM by caledesi

Bush Moves Toward Martial Law
Written by Frank Morales
Thursday, 26 October 2006
In a stealth maneuver, President Bush has signed into law a provision which, according to Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont), will actually encourage the President to declare federal martial law (1). It does so by revising the Insurrection Act, a set of laws that limits the President's ability to deploy troops within the United States. The Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C.331 -335) has historically, along with the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C.1385), helped to enforce strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic law enforcement. With one cloaked swipe of his pen, Bush is seeking to undo those prohibitions.

Public Law 109-364, or the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (H.R.5122) (2), which was signed by the commander in chief on October 17th, 2006, in a private Oval Office ceremony, allows the President to declare a "public emergency" and station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."

President Bush seized this unprecedented power on the very same day that he signed the equally odious Military Commissions Act of 2006. In a sense, the two laws complement one another. One allows for torture and detention abroad, while the other seeks to enforce acquiescence at home, preparing to order the military onto the streets of America. Remember, the term for putting an area under military law enforcement control is precise; the term is "martial law."


(snip)


link: http://www.towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/911/


This is scary.

I am listening General.
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. Win or lose, Wes has to get into the fray.
He's smart, very smart. He's very eloquent.

I love Gen'l Clark. He needs to get into this thing.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. I get made fun of when I mention martial law. Thanks for bring this up. nt
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I wouldn't even dream of bringing up to my hubby
As it is now, he'll just shake his head and say "you've got issues". But martial law would probably get me a trip to the funny farm.

Wish there were a way for us to put some caffienne in weasels like Patrick McHenry and Jeff Sessions about this. Maybe something like, "Do trust President Hillary Clinton to have the same power to unilaterally declare Martial Law, spy at whim without warrants, and lock people up without WRC?" You would almost see the realization washing over them!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
46. Tell him HE'S the one with the issues - he has
Ostrich Syndrome.

I'm glad my husband served in the military (under Clark, I might add) and both knows that this is very real and would confirm it upon Clark's say-so.
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. Thats the Problem valerie!!
People fear facing the possibility of such occurrence! The REALITY, that it could happen, if brought to saving this cabal ass, with their fascism control, and their PNAC agenda! We have to be open to ALL possibilities, and NOT bury our head in the sand, cuz we don't like to hear it. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE WITH THESE GUYS AND GALS IN THE WH. Never be afraid...its all a possibility..remember no one believed PNAC was written, until WKC brought it out during his previous run!!!
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LosinIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
47. I got made fun of when I told everyone the Iraq war was a lie
and Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11
and Bush stole the 2000 election
and we were being spied on

but over time these things have been or begun to have been accepted by the MSM. I thought I might get some pleasure out of the "I told you so" moment, but I didn't. This will be the same.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. I was just thinking along the same lines about the "broken" military
Hearing Jacobs last night on KO discussing how decimated both British and US military are, I thought about how vulnerable we are to any attack, including an economic one.

We are SO deep in debt, if nations we owe (particularly China) called in their chips, we'd be up a creek.

We are so weak militarily -- and in a range of domestic response capacities -- an attack, including a biological one, would be devastating, and THAT as Cheney would say "plays into the hands of Al Qaeda" and whoever else.

We are so despised worldwide, the goodwill toward our country, or at least toward our government, is GONE. What country doesn't hate us? I can't name one!

There's plenty of time left for BushCo to continue to make things worse, and YES, I listen to The General. Everything he's warned has come to pass. Things he said years ago, for which people like Scarborough attacked him as "aiding the enemy," are now common phrases for people like, well, Scarborough! General Clark knows what he's talking about, and I'm listening carefully!
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. General Clark may very well be the Smedley Butler of our times. n/t
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. Remember his Add about Lie-ber-man
Iraq---big mistake...
Lieberman----big mistake..

He knows his stuff!!!
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Klukie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. I am convinced that we will attack iran......
and it will happen mid-march. You are exactly right with this post except that it is too late. Iran is a done deal IMO.
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. We still have to try...we can't give up and surrender...
To say its to late, isn't in MY vocabulary..please don't throw the towel in.AS WES SAYS.." THE TITANIC IS HEADING FOR THE ICEBURG, AND WE ARE RE-ARRANGING THE DECK CHAIRS" That means, we need to "CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE SHIP" to prevent the CRASH, and lose all the people on the SHIP!!!
"SHIP U.S.A."!!!!
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. So many people think it unbelievable
IMO simply because they're making the mistake of thinking ground invasion. Personally, I think it's going to happen and be managed as an air campaign from the ships. That's the area where is military is superior. It's not just a coincidence that the new person in charge is an Admiral.
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Klukie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. It is definately an air campaign.....
I am truly fearful.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. The first time I clued in to Iran
The first serious time in this era, that is, was at the close of Kerry's campaign. Clark told a group of his own supporters that Iran was going to be the next hot spot for Bushco and it was up to all of us to put a stop to it. Now he had been talking about the PNAC plan for two years by then, but this was somehow different. He was so intent on us knowing how very worried he was that I felt fear shoot straight through me, because whatever his basis for saying it, he seemed to know something about the certainty of this dire forecast. As he talked more over the past two and a half years, my own anxiety grew, and now this worst case is nearly upon us. These are definitely fearful days, Klukie.
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Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. I heard Wes also around that time,
He made a stop to see his supporters and thank them, It was just before Christmas '04 in a basement in a bar in Chicago. I'll never forget it. Wes Clark was so serious about this administration and Iran. He has been fighting for a change in policy. It's de'javu all over again. I have a sinking feeling no one will listen again. Could it really happen again?? stunning.......and it's March, again.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. It may start with an air campaign only
But it won't stop there.

The chickenhawk neocons thought they could basically take out Saddam with "shock and awe" alone They planned to deploy insufficient ground forces from day one, and then went ahead with the invasion even after Turkey refused to let us stage there, blocking a full division from taking part in the operation.

Of course, they are the same people who convinced Israel to bomb Lebanon, telling them it would be a cakewalk after Hizbollah was defeated from the air.

These people don't learn. They're not reality-based, and they don't listen to advice from the experts who are. I think they really do believe war with Iran can be won from the air, but the Iranians will have other ideas. They don't intend to roll over and play dead, and they know damn well we have no ground forces left to conduct an invasion.

In Kosovo, NATO as able to make a credible threat of committing ground forces, and that's what it took to convince Milosevic it was time to give up. We can make no such threat against Iran. But they can sure bring the ground war to our guys and gals in Iraq, in the Persian Gulf, and possibly elsewhere.

I only wish everyone would ask themselves this: If Iran retaliates (and what other choice will they have?), what American president is going to be able to back down once our soldiers have been attacked? Certainly not Bush or any other Republican, and I very strongly doubt any of the leading Democrats would do so either, assuming they could be elected at all.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. If Bush-Cheney
attack Iran and start another war their approval rating will sink even closer to 0%.

However if they implement some form of martial law their power will be at 100%.

That's a dangerous combination.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I don't think they're concerned about approval ratings
And as far as it goes, they're not concerned about Congress or the people either. We've sat quietly through two stolen elections and scores of legislative enabling acts.
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Of Course NOT!!!
Edited on Fri Feb-23-07 10:31 AM by capi888
They are way ahead of being concerned about ratings. The distraction of the American People, with candidates running 2 years before election, fighting amongst ourselves, Britney (who supported B) Anna N. whoknows...we don't beat the drums, we have EDUCATE PEOPLE, we need to bring reality to the forfront. If it takes scaring people, oh well, sometimes thats necessary, to open their eyes.
WKC, is remaining out NOW, because he doesn't want to be part of the political retoric, and I agree with him, his voice needs to be heard, and we have to help him...wether he runs or not is not important....THE WAR DRUMS ARE BEATING....WE NEED TO SILENCE THEM...
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
19. US Iran intelligence 'is incorrect'.... surprised?
US Iran intelligence 'is incorrect'
Julian Borger in Vienna
Guardian Unlimited (UK) | February 22, 2007
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2019235,00.html


Much of the intelligence on Iran's nuclear facilities provided to UN inspectors by US spy agencies has turned out to be unfounded, diplomatic sources in Vienna said today.

The claims, reminiscent of the intelligence fiasco surrounding the Iraq war, coincided with a sharp increase in international tension as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reported that Iran was defying a UN security council ultimatum to freeze its nuclear programme.

----SNIP----

At the heart of the debate are accusations - spearheaded by the US - that Iran is secretly trying to develop nuclear weapons.

However, most of the tip-offs about supposed secret weapons sites provided by the CIA and other US intelligence agencies have led to dead ends when investigated by IAEA inspectors, according to informed sources in Vienna.
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. not surpised...!!!
Just the same oh same oh!!! Enough is Enough!!! We are wiseing up I hope!!
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
20. Why are we so afraid to state the possibilities of.....
What could happen, from the results of this Cabal in our Gov't??? We don't want to mention martial law, we are afraid of being critized???? I think ALL, possibilities should be put on the table. Yes, I am a WKC supporter. I don't like to hear people saying negative things about him. I DON"T like to hear the negative reoteric about ANY of our candidates, to be honest. But, that is how our democracy emerged!!
However, this is a different scenerio, we are facing a devastating event, that will effect every American, and every person in the World. Our Leadership, we have now will distroy our world, and bring us to 3rd world status.
Listen to the WAR DRUMS>....they are pounding away...
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. .

:kick:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER
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CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
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leona_cotterell Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
30. the elections in 2008
will never be called off, but the elite will make sure that only two candidates representing this elite are on the ballot, as it has been the case for the past 200 years.

Real candidates representing the real interests of the population are never included.
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Leona_ Welcome to DU. n/t
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-23-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
33. Gore/Clark 08 nt
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
37. Hold it -- Please fill me in!!! --
Has Wes Clark stated he believes not only that the US will invade Iran but that * et al. WILL suspend elections in the US thereafter?
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. No. Clark hasn't said that, but you may find this comment interesting
Clark definately thinks our Democracy is at risk because of the Bush Administration. I was listening to a radio interview with Wes Clark back in Novemeber of 2003, when these words almost jumped out of the speaker and kicked me:

"I think we're at a time in American history that's probably analogous to, maybe, Rome before the first emperors, when the Republic started to fall... I think if you look at the pattern of events, if you look at the disputed election of 2000, can you imagine? In America, people are trying to recount ballots and a partisan mob is pounding on the glass and threatening the counters? Can you imagine that? Can you imagine a political party which does its best to keep any representatives from another party — who've even been affiliated with another party — from getting a business job in the nation's capital? Can you imagine a political party that wants to redistrict so that its opponents can be driven out entirely?...it's a different time in America and the Republic is - this election is about a lot more than jobs. I'm not sure everybody in America sees it right now. But I see it, I feel it."

The interview was broadcast on New Hampshire public radio on November 5, 2003. It was part of a series of extensive personal interviews they did with all the candidates prior to the New Hampshire Primary that year, with Laura Knoy as interviewer. Fortunately it is still archived by NPR.

Here is New Hampshire's NPR's blurb describing it:

"The retired General who grew up in Arkansas, attended West Point, and later served as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, is on the program. We'll delve into his background and find out what motivates him, who inspires him and why he wants to be the next President of the United States. Laura's guest is General Wesley Clark."

There is a lot more worth listening to in this interview, including Wes Clark talking about the Military Industrial Complex. If you want a good sense of who Wes Clark is, what he believes, and why, then this interview is a great place to start. Here is the link:

http://www.nhpr.org/node/5339

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outlookin_in Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
39. so true, think about this...
My retired military father is telling me that they don't need to attack Iran to get Marshall Law. 21K soldiers (most of whom are National Guard) depletes the home land defense quotas and that is enough for any President to declare Marshall Law. War with Iran and their supporters would just be icing on the cake.

Besides, I believe (not sure) that Reagan actually signed Marshall Law into affect during his term and Marshall Law has to be revoked by signature and an act of Congress. The events of 911 shored up the justification for not dissolving Marshall Law and like an ace up the sleeve the puppeteers have not yet played / enforced the rules of it, yet. Like 911 was our provocation into Iraq, they need another provocation to play the Marshall Law card, not to declare it but to play it? Again I vaguely remember reading that on a site many years ago.

One thing so scary to me is how Clinton did not over turn or end that when he had the chance, if he did I am open to correction? I am concerned that in the midst of stalemate over Iraq the Congress should at least be stopping what it can like: Marshall Law, Posse Comitatus (sp), Hap-beaus Corpus, et el, et el. Do we really want to wait for these to be changed? Wouldn't it help to change them now?
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meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
40. Only one ingredient left...
The fascists have been cooking up a storm. They're stirring up that 23% of the population that counts as Right-Wing Authoritarian. They've been gaming the system to get as close to absolute power as they can get. They even had a nice little Reichstag Fire on 9/11 to increase the fear level and get the plebes to go along with their new rules. They have an organization of brown-shirts in place, aka the Department of Homeland Security. The media's their puppet, making propaganda that would do Goebbels proud. They're stirring up the bigotry, setting up targets including Muslims, Hispanics, gays, intellectuals, atheists, and pretty much anyone else who isn't white and Christian or asks too many questions. They even have concentration camps going up across the country. Some are already being used to house immigrants, and of course, there's Gitmo and Bagram and other hellholes outside of the U.S. There are those FEMA "relocation camps" that KBR has a contingency contract to build. If that contract is activated, they'll be up and running in a matter of weeks. The administration has had six years to gather the ingredients needed to create a new fascist order that will destroy freedom and democracy in this country.

There's just one ingredient missing from their fascist brew: desperation. Desperation. The economy, while in serious trouble, hasn't really gut-punched most ordinary Americans yet. Most of us can still find a job, get a place to live, have cars, plenty of food, etc. And when people are content, they can find time to get their bearings, think, and put the authoritarians in their place. That's what happened in November 2006. The people saw Bush's mismanagement and war crimes in Iraq, saw Bush's mishandling of Katrina, saw the corruption in the administration and in Congress, and saw through the lies. As a result, Bush lost that rubber-stamp Congress, and now he has an opposition Congress asking lots of uncomfortable questions. America's love of freedom and tradition of democracy is strong, and even that Reichstag fire couldn't destroy it. The fascists will require something more to gain ultimate power, and they'll throw in that last ingredient, desperation.

So how will they make the people desperate? Cause a huge national crisis. Attacking Iran is the perfect way to do it. If hostilities commence, Iran will take out a few of our warships and shut down the entire Persian Gulf with their Exocets and Sunburns, bringing oil shipments to a halt, causing fuel prices to skyrocket. On the radio this morning, I was hearing speculation of $7.00 - $8.00 per gallon at the pump if this happens! People won't be able to make their commutes to work, there will be lines at the pumps, and the effects will cascade across the entire economy and cause a cataclysmic meltdown. Millions will be unemployed, losing their homes, unable to get food, shelter and health care. That's when the fascists come in, promising a way out of this mess. All they have to do is Follow The Leader. At that point, the people will be angry, hungry, scared and desperate, and many of them will drink the Kool-Aid. At the same time, Bush (or more likely his replacement) will start taking emergency measures to address the crisis, which will likely include martial law, suspension of elections, and assumption of dictatorial powers through something like the Nazi's Enabling Act. When the fascists (or more scientifically, the double-high Right Wing Authoritarian/Social Dominators) get this power, they will stop at absolutely nothing to destroy their enemies and secure it. Protests and dissent will be ruthlessly suppressed in the name of national security. This isn't blind speculation. Bob Altemeyer has been researching Right Wing Authoritarianism and Social Dominance Orientation for decades, and he's documented how they get ordinary people to support their agenda. John Dean has written a great deal about Bob Altemeyer's research in Conservaties Without Conscience.

Once the double-highs get absolute power, the real fun begins, starting with purges. With all the civil disorder coming from a second Great Depression, it could start with a repeat of Krystallnacht. Then come the political roundups. Anyone challenging the authority of the President is going to have rough men with guns coming after them. If you're reading this, you are a target. The NSA and FBI are already tracking you today. My advice to you is to be ready for fight or flight. If you surrender, get on those boxcars to the camps, you're dead. That's the mistake all the victims of the Nazi Holocaust made - doing what they're told and boarding the trains. You'll never leave those camps alive, and you'll likely get tortured, starved or worse. You have nothing to lose if the only alternative is Gitmo or its copies. Also targeted will be Muslims, Hispanics (especially illegal immigrants,) blacks, gays, athiests/agnostics, feminists, Wiccans or anyone who isn't white, Christian, and at least superficially supportive of the new order.

Assuming you didn't get rounded up, what's in store? Your freedoms will be gone, and you will live in a surveillance state. If you have weapons, the civil disorder will "compel" the government to demand that you surrender them. Criticism of the government will be ruthlessly suppressed. Travel will be restricted. You'll have to be a Good Citizen to be allowed anywhere near an airport, train station or bus station, and if you want to drive, you'll encounter checkpoints everywhere. You'd better have identification and travel permits with you at all times. The Internet will be heavily censored. You'll need a permit to have Internet access, and some permits will grant more privileges than others. Most citizens will be able to surf to commercial sites such as CNN, online stores and such, but blogs, forums and chat rooms will be monitored, censored and restricted to those who have enhanced privileges on their Internet permit. Your email will be scanned for anything subversive, and your phone conversations scanned with voice recognition software and live humans listening for dissension. Anything you do online will be recorded and logged, so you'd better keep away from anything that isn't government approved. If you use tools like PGP, GnuPG, Tor or any other tools to encrypt your traffic and prevent the authorities from tracking your Internet activity, you're going to prison. Ironically, people will still routinely get away with piracy. TV and radio will stay about the same as it is today...

As for where you'll live, maybe you'll be lucky and be able to keep your house. More likely, someone richer and more well connected will get your house, and you'll be moved to some crumbling slum or decrepit trailer park. If you're a minority, Democrat or otherwise one of the many groups being targeted, you'll end up in something like the Warsaw Ghetto. As for work, if you're a good German, you'll probably find some service sector job - flipping burgers, waiting tables, etc. There will be more of those available once the illegal immigrants are pushed out. There might also be more openings for butlers, servants, housekeepers, limo drivers & such - the ruling elite will want to be waited on. If you're on good graces with the new order, the better jobs will become available: managers and salesmen or you could join the DHS and become one of the oppressors. They get perks. You could also make extra cash by becoming an informant and snitching on your neighbors. There will still be professional jobs out there - engineers, programmers, etc. though there won't be very many of them, and you'll have to be well connected and off of the DHS blacklists to get them.

Church will be mandatory, complete with fire and brimstone. There will be no freedom of religion, just freedom of their religion. Fundamentalists will have an iron grip on government, and with fundamentalism comes all sorts of new, draconian laws. Blasphemy, heresy and apostasy will be severe crimes, punishable by death. So will homosexuality and adultery. Abortion will get you the death penalty, whether you're the one getting the abortion or performing the abortion. Movies, music and books will all be censored, and anything that offends fundamentalist Christian sensibilities will be burned. Kiss goodbye to Harry Potter. If you have a collection of Dungeons and Dragons books, you're in a world of hurt. If you're not Christian, you're a second class citizen. Muslims will be the first to be sent to the camps, and Jews will also be targeted. If you practice any other religion such as Buddhism or Wicca, you'd better go deep underground, as the sentence for practicing such religions is death. You'll see some old school execution methods, like stonings or burnings at the stake. Schools will be Christianized, and look like the documentary Jesus Camp. Kids will be taught strict Biblical Creationism in science class, and they'll be kept away from advanced sciences and such. If you're a good Kool-Aid drinking Christian boy (not girl, you'll be expected to be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen) you might have access to classes that teach engineering and such. Advanced education will only be for the elite - the plebes will be considered unfit for advanced knowledge, as it may cause them to question their beliefs.

This certainly sounds like hell, so how do we avoid this? Non-violent civil disobedience. Non-violent civil disobedience. NOW, while there's still time. That attack on Iran must be stopped, or the fascists will collapse our economy and get that desperation, that last ingredient they need to create their totalitarian state. Bob Altemeyer's research found two ways to combat fascism by decreasing Right Wing Authoritarian thinking. One is college education, and the other is non-violent civil disobedience is the other one, and a very powerful one. Non-violent civil disobedience is even more powerful than tens of thousands of guerrillas and an arsenal of heavy artillery. The reason for this is the Gandhi Trap. With a large enough non-violent protest, the government might be tempted to call in the riot cops and the tear gas and bring the hammer down. If they do this, and the targets are completely non-violent, the images of people being beaten and killed in the streets will cause a huge anti-authoritarian backlash. Witness what happened in the Civil Rights movement of the 60's. When Bull Connor turned the firehoses on black protesters, he eventually lost all of his support. The Ku Klux Klan was reduced to a shadow of its former self after turning Birmingham into Bombingham. The aftermath of Kent State resulted in a tragic loss of life, but brought the end of the Vietnam War that much closer. The abuses of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay helped bring Bush's approval levels from the 80's to the low 30's. The Gandhi trap doesn't always work. The People's Republic of China was able to put down the democracy protests in Tiananmen Square and maintain Communist rule, though they did pay a heavy price in international prestige. Still, the Gandhi Trap's our best shot at saving our democracy, restoring human rights and making our leaders pay for their crimes.
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outofbounds Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
44. This topic is nerve racking
as a typical sheep you watch the news look on the internet for news try to keep up with the minute by minute changes that can effect your life. Surely our government is looking out for our best interest and would never do anything to obstruct our freedom. Right? Wrong! This link is to a very simple description of martial law and it opened my eyes to just what you good folks are talking about. http://members.tripod.com/~Sidlinger/ml.html

I hope we never see the day when this is imposed on our country but the way W is acting it seems closer and closer. I hope the citizens of this great country are prepared or will prepare to survive this kind of attack from "our" government.

Our elected officials have quit listening to the voice of the people, the common ordinary Joes. This to me is startling and unacceptable.:hide: :scared:
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-24-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
45. * passed martial law!! Check it out!

Bush Moves Toward Martial Law
Written by Frank Morales
Thursday, 26 October 2006
In a stealth maneuver, President Bush has signed into law a provision which, according to Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont), will actually encourage the President to declare federal martial law (1). It does so by revising the Insurrection Act, a set of laws that limits the President's ability to deploy troops within the United States. The Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C.331 -335) has historically, along with the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C.1385), helped to enforce strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic law enforcement. With one cloaked swipe of his pen, Bush is seeking to undo those prohibitions.

Public Law 109-364, or the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (H.R.5122) (2), which was signed by the commander in chief on October 17th, 2006, in a private Oval Office ceremony, allows the President to declare a "public emergency" and station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."

President Bush seized this unprecedented power on the very same day that he signed the equally odious Military Commissions Act of 2006. In a sense, the two laws complement one another. One allows for torture and detention abroad, while the other seeks to enforce acquiescence at home, preparing to order the military onto the streets of America. Remember, the term for putting an area under military law enforcement control is precise; the term is "martial law."


(snip)


link: http://www.towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/911/

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