Is Hillary's chief strategist, Mark Penn, involved in the Berlusconi, Prodi battle?

[madfloridian]

Prodi tendered his resignation. It was turned down for a confidence vote. Berlusconi is hanging round waiting to take over again. So I have a couple of questions.

A Few Degrees of Separation From Hillary Clinton's Top Adviser

Mark J. Penn is a man who wears many hats: high-paid political and corporate pollster, chief executive of an international communications and lobbying company, and chief strategist to New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Enough connections for you?

Well, there are more. Penn's firm, Burson-Marsteller Worldwide -- with 2,000 employees and $300 million a year in revenue -- owns BKSH & Associates, the major lobbying firm chaired by Charles R. Black Jr. That's right, Black, counselor to Republican presidents, reports to Clinton's top strategist.

Well, there's more at the WP story. But here is the part that got my interest very quickly, considering Prodi's fragile position.

But WPP does encourage cross-referrals, especially to avoid conflicts within its firms. "We occasionally will do things with one of the other companies," said (Jack)Quinn, whose firm worked with Burson-Marsteller's polling firm, Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates, on the reelection of Italy's former prime minister Silvio Berlusconi. The polling firm, of which Penn remains president, is the WPP unit that will be paid millions by the Clinton campaign for Penn's attention.

I don't know much about Italian poltitics, but my opinion of Berlusconi is not so hot. Here is more about that situation right now.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-02-24T164811Z_01_L21529654_RTRUKOC_0_US-ITALY.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsHome-C1-topNews-7

After two days of consultations with party leaders on how to resolve the crisis, President Giorgio Napolitano asked Prodi, 67, to stay and put his majority to the test in both chambers of parliament. The votes are likely to be held next week.

"I will go to parliament as soon as possible, with the support of a cohesive coalition determined to help the country at this difficult stage," Prodi said, thanking the president.

In talks with Napolitano, Prodi's centre-left allies had asked that he be given a second chance to show he can command a majority in parliament, while former prime minister and opposition leader Silvio Berlusconi called for fresh elections.

I have asked similar questions before about Penn's company, but it was about other countries that were involved. I asked why we were messing around in their elections.

Penn, Schoen & Berland, Mark Penn a pollster for Hillary. Just in Venezuela.

So now I am asking about their involvement in Italy's elections. I figure there is stuff about it I don't understand, but I just wonder why we bother with other countries' elections. And I do wonder about polling in general.

[grasswire]

1. Burlusconi's a fascist

And Penn is apparently, like Carville, a mercenary.

[blm]

18. Berlusconi is a dyed in the wool fascist - So is Charlie Black. No surprise they're

all in with the REAL Bush agenda of global fascism.

[Leilani]

2. Charlie Black?

He's like a Bush family member.

What a small world of power politics & money.

[madfloridian]

9. A rich world of power.

Powerful enough to be scary.

[Cha]

3. Oh, I hope Prodi can hang

in there and shore up enough power to stick around.

I can see I don't understand Italiano politics.

[paulk]

4. Berlusconi isn't hanging around waiting to take over again

he's in trouble with the law

and this battle going on right now isn't between Prodi and him.

It was the Italian left that derailed Prodi, not the right.

from your post -

"I don't know much about Italian politics"

-------------------

I do follow Italian politics - my wife grew up there, my father in law (who is American) lived there for thirty years, his brother still lives there, I'm in contact with numerous family and friends over there.

some sincere advice -

Don't post about things you don't know anything about, you'll only end up making yourself look foolish.

[madfloridian]

5. Another link. Is Penn involved in the elections there? That is the question.

"Leftists were disillusioned with the pact. For now, however, they seem to have united behind Prodi out of dismay over the prospect that toppling the government would pave the way for a return of Berlusconi. Polls before Prodi's resignation and since have indicated Berlusconi could be reelected if the vote were held now.

"They know that if they continue to play games, we head back to elections and possibly another five years of Berlusconi," said Pavoncello, the analyst. "That's the last thing they want."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-prodi25feb25,0,2214738.story?coll=la-home-world

I am so sorry, but I simply do not know how else to interpret that.

You are trying to discredit me, though I stated I did not know much about them. You and your wife should ask the LA Times to clarify.

Is Penn connected to the Italian elections while working for our frontrunner. A yes or no will do.

[madfloridian]

6. And yes, the left did not want troops in Afghanistan as far as I can figure.

And Prodi apparently does. I am not stupid, and though I don't really understand it...I read before I posted.

Do they have troops in Iraq still? I gather Prodi does not want that.

I gather he is more tolerant in his views about gays and the rights of women...but then I don't really know that either.

[paulk]

11. the only way Berlusconi gets back in is if the left fucks up

which is possible, I suppose, since the Italian left makes our version over here look like one big happy family. Every time the left gets into power, they spend so much of their time infighting that the country finally throws up it's hands in disgust and puts a center/right coalition in power. There's a reason Berlusconi got elected and was able to stay in office for 6 years. The average Italian PM stays in office for a year or less.

Which is pretty much what Pavoncello is saying.

I'm not trying to discredit you - get that mountain sized chip off your shoulder, will you? I'm trying to provide you with some information.


-------------------


I have no idea if Penn is connected to the Italian elections, or how relevant that is to anything I've posted about.

[madfloridian]

12. How relevant? If you have to ask....

then I don't know how to answer.

I plan to keep my mountain-sized shoulder chip after some of the stuff that is going on here. One will not survive without a big big shoulder chip.

You can always ignore me.

[paulk]

13. ok -

I've now read your conjecture about Penn somehow having a finger in the Italian elections because the company he owns, which has 2000 employees, owns another company or is connected somehow to another company that did some polling for Berlusconi's party in the last election and somehow polling equates to meddling in other country's elections and I'm supposed to be concerned because this guy and the people who work for him are trying to make a living, I guess, and it's all some kind of dastardly conspiracy because one of our Presidential candidates has hired him as a campaign strategist and I'm sorry if I don't get the connection there, so go ahead and put that mountain sized chip back on your shoulder, it goes so well with the tinfoil.

[madfloridian]

14. It is about money, power, and inevitability.

It is about the ties that bind all over the world. It is about our influencing polls in those countries.

I think most of the problem now about Hillary is her inevitability. She has cut sources of money off from others, telling her donors it her or the highway. Vilsack is only the first casualty.

It is not a feel good thing right now to know she is already in.

[madfloridian]

16. Venezuela, Kiev, and Serbia...

Don't Cry for Me Venezuela: Disgraced Pollster Takes Job With NYC Mayor
http://www.borev.net/2006/12/dont_cry_for_me_venezuela_disg.html

US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev, and in Serbia.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/ukraine/story/0,15569,1360236,00.html

Manufacturing a "Ukrainian" in Venezuela
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/503/1

"The U.S. is already firmly entrenched in Venezuela with "democracy promotion" organizations such as the NED, USAID, and yes, once again, Penn, Schoen & Berland. These actors have teamed up with major opposition groups to map out and execute their strategy. The objective will be to create a situation like in Ukraine in 2004: huge protests against the elections and against the government in order to cause chaos and instability. Basically, it comes in three parts.

First, they need to build up popular support for the opposition candidate, Manuel Rosales, by designing an attractive campaign. This has already been accomplished, in part, but according to most polls Rosales only has about 20 to 30 percent voter intention, compared to Chavez who hovers between 50 and 60 percent.(6) However, it appears support for Rosales has grown a few percentage points in the latest polls as the candidate has crossed the country giving speeches and making promises over the last few months. The major media, of course, gives his campaign nightly coverage, and repeats all of his campaign messages."

[paulk]

22. of course, none of this has anything to do with your OP

except in your conspiracy world.

[madfloridian]

27. So her chief strategist is not messing in close elections around the world?

That was my point. Read the posts about this company from a European point of view at EuroTrib, linked from BooTrib.

http://www.eurotrib.com/user/de%20Gondi/diary/2

[paulk]

34. how is polling "messing" in another country's elections?

American polling companies are respected for their accuracy all over the world. That's why they get hired all over the world.

You link to some Italian blogger as if that's authorative. It's just one (anonymous) person's opinion, and his opinion is no more credible than yours. Or mine.

[madfloridian]

7. I posted in a another thread today...

That when someone says something that hits home, first they try to discredit the poster, then they try to discredit the source.

Bottom line: Should the chief strategist of our leading presidential candidate be messing in elections in other countries like Venezuela and Italy...and there are others I found. They are pollsters interfering in other countries.

I would never say it would happen here.

[Morgana LaFey]

8. C'mon, folks -- this is important. Recommend, please. nt

[LoZoccolo]

10. It goes much further than that!

Hillary Clinton was the Democratic nominee for Senate in the 2006 election.
The chairman of the Democratic Party is...Howard Dean! :wow:

I knew there was more to these scary pictures than I originally thought!



_{NOTE: This post is sarcastic.}

[blm]

15. Jack Quinn and Scooter Libby both represented Marc Rich, too.

DC is more incestuous than the most remote mountaintop village.

[madfloridian]

17. So that's where....

I read Quinn's name. I could not think of why I recognized it.

[AtomicKitten]

19. We wait with bated breath

... to see how you tie this in to trashing Hillary which is, of course, the object of your game, like a heat-seeking cruise missile.

[madfloridian]

20. Actually....

I am not into trashing her or anyone. I just think it is time to see things with eyes open. Penn is her chief strategist. He recently launched attacks on Gore and Kerry...who are not running. I joined the questioning about Gibbs working for Obama, but I did not condemn Obama, I like him just fine.

If it does not bother others, that is fine. I feel like so much is tied in to other elections around the world that were very controversial.

But then it does not matter what I say here...no one reads it to see what it says. It is just considered an attack, which it is not.

I have a lot of concerns with my country over the way we got into Iraq. We all should. We should question everything.

[blm]

21. Blind loyalty has no appreciation for CITIZENSHIP and the duty of CITIZENS to

be loyal to country first and Democratic party second. I welcome your work as a Citizen Democrat, mf.

[madfloridian]

23. Thanks.

Blind loyalty is why we are in dire circumstances. We have had so many killed and killed so many, and it could have been handled other ways.

We have let things slide by too long. I don't know if our country can recover from this. Bush's games. Will we stop them or go along again.



"On vient faire le ménage : “We are coming for housekeeping “

Attendez que je finis –instead of finisse- mon jeu : ‘ Wait for I finish my game ‘ (I cannot reproduce the grammar mistake in English – well, I think so ... ) . It needs a subjonctive instead a present... Sorry for the translation ..."

[AtomicKitten]

24. you and * ahem * others have made it your mission here at DU

... to post sideswipes, full-on assaults, propaganda, blog opinion pieces, idle chatter on the internets, polling, and whatever you can get your hands on to lob at the Clintons in particular, your feigned innocence aside.

And that bothers me as a solid Democrat that wonders precisely who you (and * ahem * others) might be working for in your nonstop quest to tank the candidacy of Hillary Clinton.

You are doing precisely the opposite of being a good citizen in your propaganda campaign here at DU, in fact, are giving Karl Rove and Rush Limbaugh a run for their money.

[madfloridian]

25. I am glad you are a "solid democrat."

.

[AtomicKitten]

26. too bad you and others are not

good luck on your campaign here at DU

[madfloridian]

28. That is very judging. I won't do that to you.

.

[blm]

30. No honest Democrat would work on the PROTECT Poppy Bush campaign.

.

[AtomicKitten]

32. no HONEST person would make such a baseless accusation

[Forkboy]

35. A solid Dem that admits writing for a green paper before

Solid Dem like Lieberman.

[AtomicKitten]

37. personal insults do not a point make

Is that all you've got? Seriously, you seem to just follow me around lobbing insults at me which is against DU rules, so I'm asking you politely and officially to stop.

[Forkboy]

38. Do you ever read what you write?

personal insults do not a point make.

Thanks for the laugh at least.

And I'll post where I see fit.You can contact admin or you can put me or ignore.I suggest you try one of the two.

[blm]

29. I disagree with Clinton protecting Bushes. You AGREE with Clinton protecting Bushes.

That is the only real difference.

Since you have access to and are focusing on my old posts, you can see that your claims against me are false. In the recent past, I defended Clintons with the best of them. Way better than the blind loyalists do now.

I won't defend any of their actions to protect the Bushes. I will defend them on many of the lies the RW has hyped against them, but I will not defend them on what I know to be the truth - Clinton protected Poppy Bush on all the outstanding matters in IranContra, BCCI, Iraqgate and CIA drugrunning when he took office in 1993.

He has actively been rehabilitating Poppy Bush in the public eye for the last 6 years.

You have no problem with that - those of us who have waited for years for Poppy Bush's crimes DO have a problem with it.

[AtomicKitten]

31. I dispute your ALLEGATION that Clinton protected the Bushes,.

Get that part straight.

You'd have to prove it to be valid for me to disagree with it, and you have failed to do that in spite of all the poorly-sourced opinion pieces you post that you consider gospel.

Most folks blame the perpetrators of Iran-Contra for that and other BFEE crimes, but you have targeted Bill Clinton at whose feet you lay the blame. You are grossly misguided in your analysis, and your nonstop campaign to trash all things Clinton is pretty breathtaking to read at a site called DEMOCRATIC Underground.

[blm]

33. I lay blame on Poppy Bush. Who has worked hardest to rehabilitate Poppy Bush

in the public eye?

Who was IN OFFICE and had the access to fully reveal the documents to bring all those serious investigations to its PROPER close with a fully informed electorate?

I would love to provide proof that Clinton DID facilitate the turnover of all the documents needed - but I can't. I read his book. You know as well as I do that Clinton chose to not pursue those outstanding matters.

[AtomicKitten]

36. If his book is the source

... for your case against him, you are bereft of a point. Yet your corruption-fighting superhero, John Kerry, never mentioned it during his campaign when he had full access to the media any time he wanted. Now why would that be? Maybe because you are barking up the wrong tree. Stop the blaming, put a period at the end of your obsession, and move on.

[blm]

39. Use the Historic record and REFUTE instead of attacking me. Show that we are all wrong

and that Clinton DID facilitate the further scrutiny needed when he inherited the outstanding matters.

Either he DID allow access to the documents needed or he didn't. That's the bottom line you avoid.

And you can call me obsessive till the cows come home but my obseesion is as a CITIZEN for open government. Your obsession is for protecting secrecy and privilege by attacking CITIZEN Democrats who seek open government.

[The Magistrate]

40. Locking

Unfortunately, this thread has been hi-jacked and turned in consequence into a flame-war.