Why it comes down to Al Gore. (If he would stop being so prissy)

[Snellius]

This is my take on the current state of the presidental race:

There is a lot of enthusiasm for Barack Obama, especially for an Obama/Edwards ticket. And it is an attractive and powerful pair. Less winnable than Edwards/Obama, no doubt. There is a significantly small but pivotal group of Americans who still can not accept an African American as President, especially in critical states like Tennessee -- look what happened to Harold Ford. What swung the Senate to the Dems in the last midterms was Montana and Virginia, and in the House, the Midwest -- all of which would have less trouble with a white woman than with a black man in the White House. A huge reservation with Obama, too, is that he's so new and untested. Can we have confidence in his ability to protect us? He's charismatic, no doubt, but he would have a lot of trouble convincing Americans of his strength and experience, virtues that opponents like Giuliani or McCain would be quick to exploit. His words may bring to mind RFK but I'm not sure he has the same pugnacious spirit or trials in the ring. Maybe in more peaceful times, but America is still on edge and will be looking for someone who's got the stuff.

Hillary. I watched her closely in NY. She's good. And much more competent and likable than even some of her most devoted followers give her credit for. If she weren't loaded down with all the tawdry baggage of her husband, justified or not, she would make the best President without a doubt. But the thought of reliving old reruns of the Clinton years, as prosperous as they were, I don't think appeals to very many.

I still support Al Gore because, even though he comes off as a nerdy, nervous candidate, he's still inspired by a vision of the world with America as a moral guiding light, because I think global warming -- with all its broadest implications about our voracious global, industrial economy-- is the most important issue we face, and oddly because there almost seems a kind of historical retribution to correct the ill-turned twist of fate that the gods -- or should I say the Supremo Scalia -- dealt him in 2000. I doubt if he'll run. This coquettish game he's playing is typical of his problem. Like during the recount, maybe his reluctance to fight it out is the best reason he shouldn't.

http://www.draftgore.com/

[BobRossi]

1. One problem

AL GORE DOES NOT WANT TO RUN! GET OVER IT. MOVE ON!

[cassiepriam]

4. He will do it if he knows he can win this time. And if he knows the US needs him.

He will put the good of the country before his needs.

[BobRossi]

8. He told you that..

"Hope" is not a good campaign plan.

[KalicoKitty]

9. He won last time!

This picture is what stopped the ballot recounts in Florida shortly after it seemed that legitimate President Gore had a lead. The "citizens" started what was later called "the preppy riot". Screaming, yelling, pounding on the walls, these "outraged citizens" intimidated the polling officials to halt the court mandated recount. A closer look reveals who they really were. They were bussed and flown in at Republican lawmakers expense. Some even flew in on Tom Delay's private plane.

3.4 million votes not counted!

[NYCGirl]

2. "Reluctance to fight it out"? He fought it out, tooth and nail, for six weeks

without his running mate, without his party behind him. He refused to give up, although it seemed every damned person in the US wanted him too. That's real bravery.

Edited for typo.

[Snellius]

24. And after six weeks, what did he do?

He conceded. He took the "honorable" route and fell on the sword that stabbed him in the back. And what happened? The issue went away. Bush got an act of pardon which he abused to mean that he could get away with anything he wanted. "Get over it" everyone consoled. We should NEVER get over it. We've never even really faced up to it.

[NYCGirl]

28. So what do you suggest he do? What court is higher to take it to?

It was the SUPREME COURT.

[Snellius]

37. So what? Since when was Antonin Scalia made Il Duce?

Gore should never have conceded? You can't concede to tyranny, lawful or not. There is nothing in the Constitution that obligates a presidential candidate to concede. By conceding, it gave the Dems in the Senate the moral cover so that no one Senator stood up to contest the vote.

[NYCGirl]

38. Bullshit. This country is founded on rule of law. Al Gore respects the law.

Bush and Cheney do not — unfortunately, no one could have predicted that in 2000.

[Snellius]

39. And the rule of law is based on justice

When the law is unjust, at best you must oppose it, at the least, you don't concede to it.

[NYCGirl]

40. And if he hadn't made the speech you think he'd be in the White House?

That the SCOTUS would've said, "Our bad!" and called for the recounts to continue?

If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

[Snellius]

44. No, but it would have kept the cloud of illegitimacy

over Bush's head. And have made it less difficult to conclude that god had empowered him to get away with anything he pleased. To say anything he pleased to get what he wants. That cloud still hangs over our country. We have yet to catch up with our history. We have yet to face up to the election of 2000. Not confronting it was the original sin that led the way to the Patriot Act, Abu Ghraib, and into Iraq.

[NYCGirl]

46. Bush would've invoked God no matter what had happened. EVERYONE knows

(except the freepers, and I think they realize but will not admit) that 2000 was stolen.

[Snellius]

47. Everyone admits the crime, but turns their back on redressing it

There should have been an outcry for a recount, for Antonin Scalia to be impeached, for the Senate to refuse to legitimize the vote. But what? Pathetic silence. I went to a Voter March on Washington in March 2001, just after the election, thinking that millions of others would join in the outrage. Guess what? A couple of thousand firebrands. Otherwise, no one bothered to show up.

[ruggerson]

3. Two problems

One - he has said he has no interest in running.

Two - he is a terrible politician. As you said, nerdy and nervous. He ran a horrible campaign in '00 and from what I've seen, he is as stiff and awkward as ever. I would be delighted to have him as President, but I don't think he can win.

[cassiepriam]

5. LOL he won the election, how terrible is that???

[ruggerson]

10. We were at peace

with a budget surplus and coming off of a nine year expansion.

He was running against a one term moron who had evaded the draft and lived off of daddy's name.

Gore should have won in a landslide. It shouldn't even have been close.

HE COULDN'T EVEN CARRY HIS OWN HOME STATE.

[Benhurst]

16. Don't be so sure about Tennessee in 2000 ...

http://www.alternet.org/story/10589/

[cassiepriam]

23. How do you know what the real vote count was?? Rove counted the ballots.

Do you trust that?

[jwirr]

20. The campaign you saw him run was exactly what the MSM wanted

you to see. Just take a look at the photos of our candidates they use now. Always the worst pictures they have. The Al Gore we see now was the Al Gore who ran but, like with Kerry, people were fed what the MSM wanted them to see.

[ruggerson]

35. Umm, some of us can make up our own minds

and can see through the prism of the mainstream media.

My perceptions of Al Gore are my own, from watching him, unfiltered, closely over the years. Not from what some talking head tells me about him.

[cassiepriam]

6. He is the only Dem who can win. He won the first time he ran.

[Clark2008]

7. LOL. Al Gore = Prissy LOL!!

I know Al personally. He's hardly prissy.

He's a rock-solid MAN. He smells like a man (mmmm... endorphins!), he acts like a man. He laughs like a man. I never saw the "nervousness" in him you describe - nerdy, yes, but in an intellectual way that makes him the type of professor young co-eds have crushes on - but prissy? Not on your life!!

If we both weren't very happily married... :evilgrin:

Oh - and the only people in the South wanting Edwards anywhere near the ticket are women in their 40s and 50s. We need a candidate who can garner some Southern and mid-Western white male votes. Edwards and Obama can't do that. Sorry. But Gore (and Clark) can.

[NYCGirl]

11. I think the "Prissy" meme is from the right wing.

Thanks, Clark2008 — for bringing that up.

[ruggerson]

12. I'm not rightwing

and I think he comes across as weird and sing-song-ish. Bizarre, almost.

He is unelectable, imho. Wonderful on ideology - really bad political instincts

[NYCGirl]

15. Your perception is bizarre. And he was elected. NT

[ruggerson]

17. It should not have been a close election

Florida should not have been within a couple of hundred votes. He is a terrible politician. Sorry if this riles you.

[NYCGirl]

22. Yes, damn all those old Jewish people who voted for Pat Buchanan!

No, thinking about the butterfly ballots and Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris and all the other ways they stole it in Florida riles me.

[Sparkly]

18. What makes somebody a "good politician," then?

I definitely don't see him the way you do.

I think there's been a lot of fussing about Democrats as being personally imperfect in some ways that make them "bad politicians" or "bad candidates" or "unlikeable" or whatever, yet the same are not applied to people like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, just as obvious examples!

So what, in your view, makes somebody a "good politician?"

[ruggerson]

21. Wit, charm, killer political instincts

the innate ability to make people LIKE you. The strategic ability to slam back even harder than your opponent when attacked. To be disarming, quick and nimble on your feet when hounded by the press. To KNOW HOW TO WIN ELECTIONS.

[Clark2008]

25. Then why was Bush so successful?

He didn't make me - and at least 51 percent of the popular voters in this country - like him.

:shrug:

[Sparkly]

27. So, do you think George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are good politicians?

Do people LIKE Dick Cheney, or Joe Lieberman, or Jean Schmidt, and if so, why??

Does "slamming back" always work, and do you think it's the candidate alone who makes the strategic decisions on such matters??

"Disarming, quick and nimble" -- does that describe Bush??!? Who do you think it does describe??

[ruggerson]

32. Bush ran against two weaker politicians

Kerry and Gore. Despite what we think about him, he is a fairly good political strategist, not great, but good enough to win against two bad politicians. He had a huge stroke of luck in running against GOre, cause a lot of other candidates would have beaten him.

You asked me how I defined a good politician. The fact that Bush won doesn't mean he is a good politician. It means he (and Rove) are BETTER at political strategy than their opponents in 2000 and '04.

[Sparkly]

33. Bush is a stronger politician than Gore or Kerry???

:rofl:

What role do you think Bush had in "political strategy???" (Or anything else?!?) I think he has no decision-making role in anything beyond what underwear to don each day.

You seem to be backing away from the wit, charm, nimble, etc. traits you mentioned first. You REALLY find Bush witty, charming, and nimble?? Seriously?? :rofl:

[ruggerson]

36. You askekd me what constituted a good politician

You then asked what I thought of Bush. Two separate questions.

And yes, Bush is a better politican than Gore or Kerry.

[Sparkly]

41. "Bush is a better politican than Gore or Kerry."

Now THAT is amazing...

By your own definitions, his wit, charm, and ability to be "nimble on his feet" makes him a better politician than Gore or Kerry.

You think he's wittier than Gore and Kerry? Did you come to that conclusion based on his witty repartee with the press, such as making fun of a legally blind man for wearing sunglasses? Maybe it was the impromptu massage he gave Merkel, or the hilarious quips about wanting to be a dictator.

You think he's more "charming" than Gore or Kerry? Is that about his enchanting ways with other world leaders, that darling smirk, or the way he walks with his palms facing backwards?

You think he's more "nimble on his feet" than Gore or Kerry? Kind of the way he answered the question about sovereignty for Native American tribes, or the facile use of phrases like "fool me once," or the way he answers the press by listening to his earpiece saying, "and uh... uh..... uh....."

Whereas Gore and Kerry are -- let me get the phrasing right: "Stiff and Wooden," yes? Inferior wit, charm, and not so nimble; and of course, nobody likes the smart guy in the class...

:rofl:

[Clark2008]

26. It must have been because let's look at Bush and Gore

together - who has the broader shoulders, the non-fake swagger, the strong jaw line... NOT BUSH!

[hashibabba]

13. Thank you for your post. I don't think he's nervous or prissy, either.

It would be great to have Al and Tipper in the White House in 2009!

I'd like to remind people that it doesn't look like he's going to run, but he hasn't given the Sherman statement that would entirely rule it out.

[Snellius]

31. Then why doesn't he stand up and fight for what he believes in

Does he really think that winning an Academy Award for acting in a movie that hardly anyone has even seen will do more for what he believes in than putting his beliefs in practice and really getting something done?

[KalicoKitty]

14. Al Gore is NOT prissy!

He would not have allowed 9/11 to happen, either!

Al Gore wanted more airline security! But was scoffed at by the Repulican majority.


"The federal government should consider aviation security as a national security issue, and provide substantial funding for capital improvements. The Commission believes that terrorist attacks on civilian aviation are directed towards the United States, and that there should be an ongoing federal commitment to reducing the threats that they pose." -- Gore Commission final report, February 12, 1997

[peacetalksforall]

19. We should just check in with Ralph Nader and get his approval

before selecting anyone, i.e., find out who he can live with so he won't run.

[Clark2008]

29. LOL.

Not that it would matter.

But, I have to ask again: why does it matter if he DOES run. The people at fault are both the Democrats for forgetting their base of the working man and woman AND the people who are doing the voting for Nader.

Nader can run all he wants - it's a free country - but that doesn't mean people have to vote for him.

[peacetalksforall]

30. self-delete

[peacetalksforall]

34. We should check in with this Congress to see if they are going to do

anything abour voting theft and voting integrity. They seem afraid of doing anything (except Conyers and helpers). They've gone all silent and they won't demand oversite of hardware, software, security, or quality control. They've given our votes away.

Whether Cheney or Bush lasts out these last two years = 'corporatation enternatinment news' networks will continue to partner with the thieves. If they remain complicit, then most of the country won't know anything.

Voting in most countries around the world is more democratic then in this one.

[peacetalksforall]

42. I also have to say that 'prissy' isn't the word for Gore. I call him 'gutsy'.

It takes guts to dig in and learn.
It takes guts to stand up to war bringers.
It takes guts to stay out of the limelight at the proper times and then, when back in the limelight, say and do worthwhile things.

As far as 2000 - I believe without proof that he had the worst kind of advice anyone could have received.

The same people mis-advised Kerry.

[saltpoint]

43. I don't blame Al Gore one iota for playing the game on his own terms.

The media are a pack of shallow mongrels, growling at the chance to tear him to shreds.

Good for Al to bide his time and decide when he wants to jump in, if he decides to.

Off-topic a bit, but let me toss this in: among the many exciting things Al Gore has said since Bush/Cheney stole the presidency in 2000 is his endorsement of the Kerry-Edwards ticket in 2004. He told audiences, "Don't let the Supreme Court choose the next president, and don't let this president choose the next Supreme Court."

I thought that was a hell of a great line. Would that a few more voters in purple states had listened more carefully to President Gore's advice.

[Seabiscuit]

45. Are we talking about the same Al Gore?

The last thing Al Gore is today is "prissy".

And while Al Gore's 2000 run for the Presidency was tepid, your unforgiving words ("he comes off as a nerdy, nervous candidate") completely miss the mark. Al Gore today is anything *but* "nerdy" or "nervous", and he's not a candidate right now.

Did you miss all those powerful speeches he's given against Bush and the Iraq war???

The Al Gore I know today is the farthest thing from your description of him: he is the most admired and convincing force in American politics around the entire world today. Anything but prissy, nerdy, and nervous.

[Snellius]

49. You can't fight the fight until you get in the ring

Commentaries from the sidelines or films of the action don't land any punches.

[Seabiscuit]

50. Completely untrue.

Gore has been fighting the good fight for years, and it's had an explosive impact on people around the world. And not just on global warming.

He has landed more punches during his time out of office than any politician in Washington D.C.

I agree with Jimmy Carter that he can and would accomplish even more as President. But that doesn't diminish his stature today.

[LittleClarkie]

48. You're talking about him as if the last six years didn't happen

I don't think he's the same man, actually.

[Seabiscuit]

51. In a nutshell: My point exactly

in angrily posting: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3133178&mesg_id=3133345

[yellowcanine]

52. With friends like you no wonder he isn't running.

"This coquettish game he's playing is typical of his problem. Like during the recount, maybe his reluctance to fight it out is the best reason he shouldn't."

You presume a lot about the man. Deciding to run for president is an intensely personal decision. We should keep it that way and refrain from ascribing our aspirations to potential candidates.