Not going to roll over....standing his ground.

[madfloridian]

I am embarrassed again for my state. Sure, they were put on the spot by the GOP who controls the legislature here. But they went along and voted for the January 29th primary. Everyone of them.

Now they are trying to blame the party chairman for the fact they broke the rules. They are making no effort to be nice.

In NH this week-end Dean was cornered by one from their state. He made it clear that Florida would not get the delegates. If I were him, being pummeled by NH and treated rudely and disgustingly by Florida, I would just quit. But he won't because he's not a quitter.

Howard Dean Says of Florida Primary “They broke the thing.”

And the results, “won’t count,” said DNC chairman Howard Dean.

“Florida has essentially converted their primary into a straw poll,” DNC chairman Howard Dean said in a video interview with Victory New Hampshire.

And he warned that if any of the presidential candidates campaign here they too will be in violation of national party rules.

“Anybody who campaigns in Florida is ineligible for Florida delegates,” said Dean.

Video of the person in NH pressuring him.

http://www.victorynh.com/video-gallery-dean.htm

As I said in another post, I think rules that were made by a committee appointed by Terry McAuliffe, voted on by 447 members....should be respected.

I talked to a couple of party leaders today. They sound very defensive. But they are putting the blame, not on themselves but on Dean and on the Republicans.

Yet those very Democrats supported stringent rules for primaries back in the day. They are being hypocritical. The ones I talked to take no blame. They are purposely building anger toward the party chairman. Why? I don't know. I suspect campaigns are behind it but that is speculation.

Here's who attended the JJ Dinner last week-end, where I assume the vote was taken. Not sure where.

Saturday night’s Palm Beach County Democratic Party Jefferson-Jackson dinner is shaping up as a talk marathon.

Perennial presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has been added to the gabfest as a “guest speaker,” joining “featured speaker” James Carville and two — count ‘em — “keynote” speakers: freshman U.S. Reps. Ron Klein and Tim Mahoney.

That’s not all. A party press release says attendees can expect to hear from eight “noted speakers.” They are U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, U.S. Reps. Alcee Hastings, Robert Wexler and Kendrick Meek, Florida CFO Alex Sink, National Organization for Women President Kim Gandy, Dem National Committee Vice Chair Susan Turnbull and Christine Jennings, the Democrat who lost that disputed Sarasota-area congressional race last year.

Long Night for Local Dems

We are trying very hard to keep active and interested, but I have little patience for people who twist and spin the facts in their favor.

I talked to party leaders in 03 about why we did not get to vote until March 9. It was fine then. They told me not to worry, it was best. They did not want to have a straw poll either. The leaders at that time in our state by many polls were Dean and Clark. :shrug:

But Florida will do what it has always done. Have it their way.

[Fridays Child]

1. Howard Dean IS the man.

[madfloridian]

2. Cute story about that.

Subway Serenade, a blogger, had on a shirt like that this week-end. He and Howard Dean had a conversation about it. Subway told Dean that it would be vindication for two people...but I don't know the rest of it.

It would be healing, wouldn't it?

[Fridays Child]

20. Yes, it would--very much so.

[polichick]

30. I'm with you...

GORE-DEAN is a ticket I could believe in!

[madfloridian]

3. More on the comment...

"In an exchange with Victory NH's Primary Defenders, DNC Chairman, Howard Dean defended the Democratic National Committee's Primary Calendar while conceding that while New Hampshire's First in the Nation Primary is still critical to the presidential race, Florida's unilateral decision to move their primary up to January 29th, has "essentially converted their Primary to a straw poll."

When asked what he would do to any state that would try to leap-frog New Hampshire, Dean replied:

"Florida is a good example of that. They didn't leap-frog it but they broke the thing and their Primary essentially won't count. Anybody who campaigns in Florida is ineligible for delegates."

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/6/emw533082.htm

[jmp]

4. I will NOT vote for any Democrat

That does NOT campaign here. If Dean wants to get in a pissing match, the state legislature should refuse to include the Democratic nominee in the Nov '08 ballot.

Florida voters elect our state representative to run our state business. Nobody voted for Howard Dean. He better back down or else.

[madfloridian]

5. Rules are rules...."the rules are different here" remember that slogan?

The rules were made. I think he is dead on to stand by them.

I am embarrassed by my state once again.

[jmp]

7. I don't give a flip

about the party's rules. We govern by laws in this state. The party can abide by them or they can deal with the consequences. NH would be a ghost town if Florida declared that anyone who campaigned in NH would be ineligible for Florida's electoral votes.

If Dean wants to fight a losing battle, get his tail kicked in, be ignored and humiliated by the top Democratic contenders and lose his job in the process ... he's welcome to pick that fight.

[madfloridian]

9. You sound like one of the congressional Florida Democrats....just like them.

kicking tails in.

You sound very angry.

[rinsd]

6. So what does this mean in the end?

That no one will get delegates or that candidates campaigning in FL will lose their delegates?

[jmp]

8. It means ...

that Dean will be replaced in the very near future.

[madfloridian]

11. You are saying Dean will be replaced "in the near future"?

Interesting comment.

[madfloridian]

15. In fact, you sound like Schoen and Carville....

Schoen
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1193

Carville
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/838

Fire Dean and replace him with Harold Ford.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. Dean will resign after we win in November 2008

He has no desire to serve as Chairman under a Democratic President because the post becomes ceremonial.

[Cameron27]

10. It means the state Democratic Party

probably can't do anything:

"The DNC's rules committee on Aug. 25 will consider the Florida Democratic Party's plan to hold a Jan. 29 primary. What are the prospects the committee will approve that plan and waive any penalties against the state?

"None, " predicted former state Democratic chairwoman Terrie Brady, a DNC member from Jacksonville.

That means that starting on Aug. 26 any candidate campaigning or raising money in Florida will likely lose a shot at winning any of Florida's 208 delegates.

Ultimately, though, state Democrats hope the eventual Democratic nominee, who controls what happens at the convention, will make sure Florida's delegates count. The nominee can't afford to antagonize key activists in a swing state with 27 electoral votes.

"I'm a candidate that's just about to be nominated, and I'm not going to seat Florida at the Democratic National Convention with a full delegation?" Brady said."

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/13/State/Florida_primary_will_.shtml

[madfloridian]

12. And Hillary and Kucinich have made it clear they will campaign here anyway.

:shrug:

[Cameron27]

13. Do you have any info on how this mess started?

I remember reading that it was the GOP that pushed for this change.

[madfloridian]

14. The GOP did push it....the Democrats voted for it...then blamed Dean

and the DNC for having rules that Florida did not like.

At first I was more sympathetic to the Dems here, then I realized they were going to use it against their own party.

I have no sympathy with that. A rules committee set up by McAuliffe, voted on by over 447 members...should not be treated lightly.

I do think it is meant to undermine the DNC and its chairman, but I think it is both parties here doing it.

[Cameron27]

16. I don't know what's going on at the local level,

but I don't see that Dean has much of a choice as national chairman. The rules were adopted, so I'm not sure what they expect him to do.

It's a mess though. No candidate wants to lose those electoral votes.

[madfloridian]

17. The state Dems who know better are blaming Dean for their own actions.

That is infuriating. There may be more to this than appears on the surface, but I don't like to deal in rumor.

If the Dems here like Thurman and Nelson et al were being honest that would be one thing....they need to say that Florida broke the rules with the help of the state Dems and then blamed the DNC for it.

We either have the DNC as a national party or we don't. :shrug:

[Cameron27]

19. It's a matter of having

Florida overtake the status of NH and Iowa. I just don't think that any state has any authority to do that...it would result in chaos for the party. You're right, we either have the DNC as a national party or we don't.

[madfloridian]

21. Most of our Florida Dems belong to "another wing" of the party

anyway. Not the so-called Democratic wing.

Been that way for a long time here.

I am furious they are trying to make Dean look bad when he is following the rules.

This paragraph bothers me:

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/13/State/Florida_primary_will_.shtml

"The presidential campaigns have tried to stay on the sidelines, but to date only Dennis Kucinich and Hillary Rodham Clinton have been unambiguous in promising that they will campaign aggressively in Florida no matter what."

There is no excuse for Hillary's doing this.

Look at the comments there. They are ugly. What she is doing is pitting her group, the DLC, against Dean.

Because that is who most of our Florida Dems are...heart and soul they are more than centrists.

[rinsd]

22. Man this stinks all around. (nt)

[illinoisprogressive]

18. the DLC wing is trying to overthrow Dean because he is progressive

[madfloridian]

23. That is a part of it.

There are other aspects, but that is a part of it.

[wyldwolf]

32. Howard Dean is the messiah, and as soon as all you realize that and fall in line...

...it will all be better.

[madfloridian]

24. Speaking of primaries....I happened to think about this..trying to prevent primaries.

There was a time in 05 and 06 our Democrats were working to stop messy primaries. They still might be trying in local and state races, but we don't know because they did it privately. They met at someone's ranch once, I know.

Working to prevent "messy primaries." I guess the current "messy" situation with the primary comes to mind now. The meetings were secretly held.

Avoiding messy primaries

Secret talks to avoid messy primaries...this sounds like muting the voice of the people to me. I can not find any other source on this right now except the link below. I did have other ones, but can't find them. I would so very much love to read more about why this would be going on. I would like to know more context on this than the reporter gives. I can not find anything else on it.

SNIP..."Campbell would only say that he's in secret talks with other Democrats to line up a slate that would avoid messy primaries that waste money and divide the party. But Campbell's blunt talk may not be a rhetorical salve for the beaten-down Democrats..."

Just a tad ironic now, I guess. They claim to be giving us a voice, but they have actually met often to try to deprive us of one. And blasting Dean for following the party rules when they are the ones breaking them.

I am very angry at Dems here over this. Madder than I realized. They put someone in an impossible situation and then gripe when he follows the rules.

Here is more of what Campbell said in that interview. His words express almost exactly how most of our Florida party leaders look at those who want to be active in the party.

On state Party Chairman Scott Maddox's endorsement of Howard Dean as the national party chairman:

"If (it's the screaming, liberal image of) Howard Dean that's going to show up as party chairman, then I think the Democrats got some problems."

On the party's abject failure to find a candidate interested in running for state agricultural commissioner: "We're looking for someone who owns a farm. Do you know any farmers who are Democrats?"

On the party's sad image: "I hope to God that people in North Florida, Central Florida, South Florida all realize that just because you have a `Democrat' after your name doesn't mean you're a loser." Campbell's lively loquaciousness didn't stop at the boundaries of politics.

[Norquist Nemesis]

31. You have to wonder how the Scott Maddox's get elected

State Party chairs when they (publicly) make such horrendous statements. Does he live next to Scarborough or something? :shrug:

[madfloridian]

33. That was Skip Campbell making that statement. He ran for AG

and lost to Bill McCollum because of the Scarlet Letter law Campbell backed. Talk about turning tables. More on that later.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. Dean doesn't have a choice, if he tries to amend the rules...

Then everybody will want their primaries first.

Iowa and New Hampshire go first because they are inexpensive to campaign in. Candidates like Jimmy Carter were able to win under such a system because they were judged on their merits and not on their war chests. Why is this concept so difficult for people to understand?

[madfloridian]

27. I agree.

He is being put on the spot for what is not his fault.

[Cameron27]

28. I was wrong about the NH/Iowa dates:

Primary schedule

The Democratic primary schedule is still evolving but here's the current, tentative schedule.

Jan. 14: Iowa caucuses

Jan. 19: Nevada caucuses

Jan. 22: New Hampshire primary.

Jan. 29: Florida primary, South Carolina primary.

Michigan: The party chairman, Mark Brewer, reiterated Tuesday that Michigan Democrats plan to move their presidential caucuses to an earlier date if Florida sticks with Jan. 29. The Michigan caucuses currently are scheduled for Feb. 9, and a decision on a new date would not be made until the fall, he said.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/13/State/Florida_primary_will_.shtml

I don't know what Dean's going to do if Michigan tries to push for a Jan. primary also.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. I think Dean should invite all the states threatening to move their primary up

And say that he will randomly select one of them to get to move their primary date up. Throw all of the names into the hat and pick one. If there's only a few of them, maybe they can have a rock paper scissors tournament.