Hillary Tells Health Care Critic to Stuff It

[rinsd]

--Michael A. Fletcher

Posted at 7:51 PM ET on Aug 9, 2007

"During a forum at the National Association of Black Journalists convention Thursday, Clinton was asked why as a candidate for president she was "still insisting" on bringing "socialized medicine" to the United States, when people were "pulling away" from similar systems in Canada and Great Britain. Worse, the questioner argued, socialized medicine hurt rather than helped poor people.

"That was a string of misrepresentations about me and about the systems in other countries," Clinton began. "Number one, I have never advocated socialized medicine and I hope all the journalists here heard that loudly and clearly because that has been a right-wing attack on me for 15 years. "

"Do you think Medicare is socialized medicine? Clinton asked, turning the tables on her inquisitor, who did not identify himself.

"To a degree," he responded.

"Well, then you are in a small minority in America," Clinton said to applause, before explaining that Medicare allows patients to choose their doctors even though the federal government foots the bill with money deducted from workers' paychecks."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/08/09/clinton_lashes_out_at_health_c.html

[ccpup]

1. nice try

according to this: "I can give you the statistics and you can shake your head," Clinton said sharply. "You come and introduce yourself to the staff. And we'll try to give you some information if you're interested in being educated instead of being rhetorical" she did everything in the world but tell him to "stuff it"

Once again, one has to read the article in it's entirety instead of just trusting their fellow DUer is leading with an honest, accurate Head Line.

[wyldwolf]

6. how, exactly, does what you added in any way detract from or alter the point of the OP?

:shrug:

[ccpup]

23. in my view

if someone offers to educate the person with statistics that prove (or perhaps disprove) their point, that's not telling them to stuff it. Telling someone to "stuff it", for me, would have been more along the lines of "I disagree with you, so I'm pretending you don't exist. Next question" At least she made some attempt to have a conversation with the person and offer to show the statistics she's using to back-up her health care ideas.

That's all I meant by what I offered. We can agree-to-disagree.

[wyldwolf]

26. just remember one thing

There is no rule, nor should there be, in GD : Politics stating posts containing article links must use the title of the article as the heading.

[ccpup]

29. fair enough

"lashes out" -- the original phrase used in the actual headline -- and "stuff it" are worlds apart, though. Simple semantics, perhaps, but "stuff it" shows a level of disrespect which just wasn't present in the exchange as it was reported. Disagreement, yes. Callous disrespect and disregard for the person's views (more "stuff it" than "lashes out")? Nope.

[wyldwolf]

32. "lashes out" and "stuff it" are NOT "worlds apart."

:shrug:

First you say "worlds apart" then you admit it's simple semantics.

[ccpup]

34. okay

yes, they are worlds apart. Lashes out indicates a disagreement. Stuff it indicates an unwillingness to engage in conversation, a factor necessary to have, in fact, a disagreement. If her attitude toward him was "stuff it" how, then, could she have a disagreement and "lash out"?

Besides, we're depending on the view of a reporter (always the most honest of folk, right?) with perhaps their own agenda and views because we weren't actually there and don't know if it was a "lash out" or a "stuff it", so ...

I'm getting tired and will probably need a cookie after all this. :-)

[cui bono]

44. I think they are extremely different.

One is dismissive, a "fuck you", and the other is combative, a "let me set you straight because you seem to be ignorant and I'm not going to let you get away with misrepresenting the situation". She was clearly fighting back, not blowing them off with an insulting remark such as "stuff it".

I can't stand Hillary and think she should drop out of the race, but there's no reason to misrepresent her with a sensationalist headline. Leave that for the tabloids.

[truedelphi]

41. Usually I am a Hillary basher but she handled this extremely well

I can't think of how she could handle this better!!

[rinsd]

7. This was the actual headline: "Clinton Lashes Out At Health Care Critic"

Do you find that to be accurate?

I saw my candidate telling off a rw nutjob who thinks MediCare = socialized medicine and was talking out of his ass.

Maybe it wasn't the harshest language but that was quite a rhetorical putdown from a Presidential candidate.

[ccpup]

27. "lashes out"

fits more along the lines of what appeared to have happened. Telling a critic to "stuff it" is something entirely different.

"Stuff it" hints at an unwillingness to engage the person in conversation, an unwillingness to offer to back up -- in this case, with statistics -- the claims you're making and is more like "I disagree with you, get lost" which is not what appears to have happened.

She did openly disagree with the man, but telling him to "stuff it"? I don't think so. The OP's headline was, in my opinion, red meat for those who dislike Hillary.

[rodeodance]

10. I think the intent of the 'headline" is accurate. "I'm your girl" fits this very well.

[bluestateguy]

2. HIllary's health care plan is going to be the same overcomplexified, glop that her 1994 plan was

It will be drawn up with the approval of her corporate sponsors in the insurance industry. It will be an incomprehensible, 2000 page bureaucratic mess that will require a Ph.D. in public policy to decipher. The Right will demonize it anyway as being "socialized medicine", while her plan attracts little support from the Left. The only people supporting her plan will be the insurance companies and the 350 members of the DLC.

[LeftCoast]

4. Any comprehensive health care plan is going to be incredibly complex

It's not a simple problem and there will be no simple answer to it.

[LostinVA]

11. Exactly -- and it isn't like the current plans we have now are uncomplicated

[supernova]

13. I would be just as skeptical

of a "plan" that was overly simplistic and didn't take into account people's real needs.

[LostinVA]

16. Exactly -- I had a health plan like that once

It SUCKED.

[supernova]

17. That's why the people in SICKO

had so much trouble. They are underinsured. On purpose. So the ins. co can turn a profit.

God the whole system is evil.

[LostinVA]

22. Exactly

[cui bono]

43. I see it less as underinsured and more as simply overdenied.

Even in Sicko it showed that with a threat to create bad publicity one could change the minds of the insurers and then get the necessary treatment. They have the insurance, they are just denied the health care for arbitrary reasons.

[LeftCoast]

19. I see our health care system from the front lines

I work in a med-surg unit and I see how complex the issue is even on a patient by patient basis. For example, we have a patient who's been on our floor for WEEKS because we can't find placement for him. That means he's costing thousands of dollars a week and that will most likely be covered by the State and Federal governments. That's just one patient. The system is filled with this kind of thing. Huge problem.

[LostinVA]

21. My mom and sister are nurses and the current "plan" is literally killing people

Health care can't be a for-profit system. It can't.

I'm lucky enough to have a decent plan, and will have an even better one at my new job, but it still isn't good enough. Especially for the cost of meds.

Nice to see you, btw.

[LeftCoast]

24. I was at a transplant discussion the other day

Was horrified to discover that if you didn't have the ability to pay for the tens of thousands of dollars a year for your anti-rejection drugs you couldn't be on the list. In other words, if you couldn't pay then you'd just die.

All this leads me to my favorite RW talking point about healthcare. Invariably the subject of healthcare rationing will come up and they'll say we don't want that (Canadian style healthcare rationing) here. Of course we have rationing too, it's just based on how much money you have - not on how sick you are.

It's very nice to see you too! Nice to know you've got some nurses in the family. We're always good to turn to for quick med advice. :)

[LostinVA]

38. I didn't know that about transplants! OMG

That's selective genocide, imo. Ugh.

Trust me, I do -- and, I haven't paid for certain meds in years, thank goodness.

[supernova]

39. Seconded!

I didn't know that either!

That's just nasty! And yes, I agree that it's a form of genocide.

Slightly off topic: I have a couple of serious health issues that have required treament over the years. What I've noticed when I've been really sick is people are effectively punished .... simply for being sick! Of course your family and medical staff take care of you, but society in general, the way we treat people, our policies, is quite punishing on those who aren't fully healthy.

[LostinVA]

42. So, since Larry Hagman could afford the drugs, he got TWO transplants

Even though the first one was destroyed because he wouldn't stop drinking... which helped destroy his original liver in the first place. UGH.

[supernova]

31. You mean he has no where to go?

That's sad. :-(

[LeftCoast]

33. No where to go and some underlying medical conditions

That means the hospital cannot simply discharge him. It is a sad situation all the way around.

[cui bono]

45. I guess he's not in Los Angeles then where they just dump people on skid row

in their hospital gowns.

[bvar22]

51. Not necessarily.

Simply extend MediCare to ALL.
The infrastructure is already in place.
The program only need to be expanded.

I guess you could ammend to read,
"Any For Profit Healthcare plan will be incredibly complex"

For Profit Mandatory HealthCare will need plenty of loopholes and wiggle room for denying claims and sucking up taxpayer subsidies for the RICHEST Corporations the World has ever seen.

[antigop]

5. And, ahem, what, exactly is Hillary's healthcare plan?

You'd think she'd have a plan for one of the most critical domestic issues, eh?

[rodeodance]

12. She said she is on a listening tour--to see what Americans want. Her response

indicates -to me---she has found her answer.

[antigop]

48. HA! Thanks for that. That's pretty funny. n/t

[Cameron27]

3. Good for her,

they put her through hell over this, and she survived. If she's elected I expect she'll kick some asses...payback is sweet.

[ShortnFiery]

14. If HRC gets the nomination, the hell's just beginning for the entire Democratic Party.

IMO, we will then lose BOTH The Presidency and The Congress. :(

I'm a liberal democrat who admittedly despises HRC. Yes, almost as much as the Right wing BUT for wholly different reasons, i.e., her triangulation; staying with a man who doesn't physically remain faithful with her; making friends with the right wingers; and voting for the IWR.

However, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT = the right wing are geniuses at the mechanics of "hate politics" ... they've honed it into a science. Clintonian swiftboating 24/7 with Rupert Murdoch's boys and girls leading the pack. He's only cuddling up to HRC now - so that he can firmly affix that political knife in her back beginning the moment after HRC snags the Democratic Nomination. :scared:

[LeftCoast]

20. Yeah, they'd put on the kidd gloves for any of our other candidates

LOL

[napi21]

28. It doesn't matter what Dem wins, the RW will attack, attack, attack!

Hell, remember they tried to fry Carter when HE WAS FIRST ELECTED! Carter was completely cooperative and the idiots found NOTHING! I happen to think Hillary would be the candidate best able to deal with the confrontation and turn the tables back on them. She sure does have the experience to be able to!

[CreekDog]

40. It's none of your business regarding HRC's marriage

And whether she should have left him or not.

[paulk]

46. you're pretty good at "hate politics" yourself.

[supernova]

8. I'm glad she told him to get bent

:D

Even if I don't agree w/ her proposals right now, I like that she called him on his bluff.

Personally, I want socailized medicine in this country.

[madrchsod]

9. in just over 4 years i`ll have socialized medicine

so what is the big deal about everyone having the same? oh i forgot we have a military machine that needs to be fed.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. Speaking of the military....

I'm guessing Hillary's wingnut interrogator has no problem with servicemembers, veterans, retirees, and their families receiving socialized medicine.

Then again, since they support the troops only in slogans, he probably does.

[nykym]

18. And Why

Can't we have the same plan all our wonderfull reps have?

[antigop]

50. Welcome to DU, nykym! n/t

[TeamJordan23]

25. What is HRC's healtcare plan? nm

[rinsd]

35. I believe she has yet to issue one.

[supernova]

36. Here's her HC page

My chief critique of it is that it is still private-insurance, profit- based. I passionately want a National Health Service, similar to what the Great Britain has.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/healthcare/

[Colobo]

30. What's Hillary's health care plan?

[RufusTFirefly]

47. Good question

Her heckler seems like a stooge and a straw man to me. After all, he gave her an opportunity to defend Medicare and in the process convey a false impression that she supports a universal not-for-profit healthcare system. (I'm sure the surprising Kuehl endorsement -- for which she deserves congratulations, by the way -- will further muddy the waters.) By the way, the word "universal" has been misused to the point of meaninglessness. My guess is that all of the Democratic candidates support "universal" health care, although what that actually means is completely different depending on the candidate. Some of the "universal" plans would be a bonanza for the insurance companies, forcing everyone to purchase insurance. Others would marginalize or shut the insurance companies out completely.

[antigop]

49. Exactly, Rufus! They all support "universal" healthcare, don't they?

But as Michael Moore has said, we need candidates' answers to the question:
What will you do to get the for-profit insurance companies out of the picture?

[Hieronymus]

37. It has been said that by revealing too much about her plan under her

husband's administration, she gave the republicans ammunition to defeat her. Perhaps that is why she is not being so forthcomiing.:eyes:

[William769]

52. K&R!