Do you believe that Hillary Clinton won the debate as the 8 New Yorkers in the NY Post say she did?

[Divine Discontent]

Poll question: Do you believe that Hillary Clinton won the debate as the 8 New Yorkers in the NY Post say she did?

DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES DEBATE: GAY ISSUES -

A post was put up by a user with a link to the NY Post that just gushes with love for Hillary Clinton's results. I would like to know from the people that saw the debate - was she really hands down the winner last night, or did Barack Obama or John Edwards whom people have said seemed warm and honest do better, or if not them, who had better answers?

[Divine Discontent]

1. this is a good blog about it...

http://www.bilerico.com/2007/08/after_the_forum_a_few_thoughts.php


I also read this from an online site:

After the Forum: A few thoughts
Filed by: Bil Browning
August 9, 2007 11:17 PM

While Jessica was lucky enough to be able to attend tonight's HRC/Logo Presidential Forum, I had to watch it online. (Logo isn't available at all on my cable system.) Jerame and I tried valiantly to watch it together, but the internet wasn't as cooperative. We caught bits and spurts of various candidates during a live webcast about as reliable as RealPlayer1.0 on a dial up connection. Thankfully, I see they're starting to replay the broadcast. Hopefully the problem was too many folks logging on to watch!

A quick run thru from what I saw...

* Obama - I thought he was okay. He raised my estimation of him. I got a warm feeling, but nothing overwhelming. He seemed sincere.
* Edwards - I actually really liked Edwards tonight. I've never really thought much of him, but he really upped my opinion tonight. Plus talking about homeless youth helps...
* Kucinich - He has such passion and I do agree with him on so many things that it saddens me to know he'll never be president. What I wouldn't give to have a good old honest liberal president.
* Gravel - Another case of a "Oh, if only" Candidate. I liked what he had to say, but he's preaching to the choir.
* Richardson - Holy shit. Did he really say that being gay is a choice? What an idiot. He just flat out looked bad up there - it was like watching Nixon debate Kennedy. I've supported Richardson all this time, but I'm putting myself back in the "neutral" category after this. Look for me to blog my experiences with his campaign in the near future.
* Clinton - Did she really say that she would repeal "Section 3 of DOMA?" Only section 3? Oh, that's right. She doesn't support same-sex marriage and her husband signed DOMA into law. Because we don't deserve all of the same rights as everyone else - only section 3's rights. Whatever. She didn't win me over, but I did miss quite a bit of her portion due to the internet glitches.


and this comment struck me as powerful -

I'll be doing a post on Richardson later today (I have to work this morning dammit.) Needless to say, I've washed my hands of him.

Also, while I realize that Carrie is a huge Hillary supporter, I'm sorry Carrie, but she just didn't do that well. Check out everyone else's coverage (I've been skimming this morning!) and see that no one else was really that hip on her either. She didn't move on any issues. She defended her husband's bad policies. And she seemed stiff. After Richardson's comment, I was really hoping she'd hit it out of the ball park. Sadly, no.

But Edwards saying our issues should be taught in school? Now THAT'S movement and a way to grab attention. It's not going to be just Ann Coulter crucifying John today for that comment...

[Hepburn]

2. I say on the issues....

...Kucinich won.

[Divine Discontent]

3. another story

http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=2093

Online extra: Richardson stuns audience with 'choice' comment

NEWS
Published 08/16/2007

by Lisa Keen

Bill Richardson's comment that he believes being gay is a "choice" caused audience members to squirm at Thursday's presidential forum. Photo: Bill Wilson
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There was one jaw-dropping moment in Thursday night's Human Rights Campaign Foundation/Logo presidential forum on gay issues, and several lean-in-close moments. But while there were no major shifts in previously stated positions, the forum served at least two useful purposes for LGBT voters: It pressed six of the eight Democratic candidates in an unprecedented way on gay-related issues, and gave those candidates an opportunity to make their case for why gay voters should prefer them over the others.

New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson stunned many with his response to a question from rock singer Melissa Etheridge – one of three panelists questioning the candidates – about whether he thinks "homosexuality is a choice or is it biological?"

"It's a choice," said Richardson, who has a strong record of support for equal rights for gays but who has been tripped up in recent months over comments that seem to lack a deep understanding of the community. (In a previous debate, he identified Justice Byron White – the author of the U.S. Supreme Court's damaging 1986 decision, Bowers v. Hardwick – as his ideal justice. He's also had to apologize repeatedly for using the slur "maricón" during a radio talk show last year.)

Before he had a chance to explain his answer, Etheridge broke in to help him out.

"I don't know if you understand the question," she said, as the small studio audience began mumbling.

[Divine Discontent]

5. USA today's take on last night Democratic Debate

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-08-09-democrats-gay-forum_N.htm

Solmonese launched the event by asking Illinois Sen. Barack Obama whether he understood that gay people could see civil unions without marriage as "separate but equal." Obama replied that when his white mother and black father married in the early 1960s, interracial marriages were illegal in some states. "Obviously this is something that I understand intimately," he said. "It's not for me to suggest that you shouldn't be troubled by these issues." But as president, he said, his responsibility would be to make sure gay couples have legal rights.

Former North Carolina senator John Edwards said he was wrong to have said in an earlier debate that he opposes same-sex marriage because of his religion, but he did not answer when asked what is at the core of his opposition. New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton got the same question and replied, "I prefer to think of it as being very positive about civil unions."

Edwards said he supports teaching about families with "two mommies," as Etheridge put it, because children "can be mean and cruel." Asked what grade that should be taught, he said he didn't know.

[Donnachaidh]

4. NY Post -- NOT fit to use for toilet paper

Please. The Post is TRASH. Rupert Murdoch owned trashed.

[Progressive Friend]

11. Exactly.

[eleny]

6. Nope

I thought that when she didn't answer Melissa's question directly, Clinton lost ground.

I thought that Kucinich and Gravel offered the most sincere support to the GLBT community.

[Divine Discontent]

9. THANK YOU for your post!

I wanted to hear some honest, and genuine opinions, your's fit that bill.

I am shocked by Bill's total landmine step upon the gay "choice" question - Melissa tried to save him from it, but he was intent on what he felt - and then tried to backpedal after the debate was over, as I read on americablog.com's thread by pam spaulding about 3 or 4 clicks down the page.


I am sensing that Kooch was his awesome self, but from the top tier of candidate - Richardson, Obama, Edwards, and Clinton - only Richardson totally destroyed most of his support from active (people like us) voters who support gay rights, with his bomb of an answer. The other 3 did OK, and John & Barack appeared very warm, and Hillary was her typical safe self, but defended DOMA a bit too much, as expected, which really could have helped her out with GLBT supporters had she said more.

[Totally Committed]

7. I thought none of those mentioned aced it, by a longshot.

That having been said, I wouldn't even wrap fish in the NY Post. It's a Murdoch paper, and Hillary is the Murdoch candidate. 'Nuff said.

TC

[mikelgb]

8. Dennis was clearly the winner...

but it was a forum not a debate

[Divine Discontent]

10. thank you, forum, and Dennis seems to nail every topic - I hate they rip on him for his looks

my friend said to me, "come on, you know they're not going to vote for him, my parents didn't vote for Dukakis because he looked too ethnic!". It's honest, I'll give him that, it's just sad people feel that way. Dennis a great person, I hope whoever is president will include him as a Sec. of State or other cabinet level position.

A lot of people feel Hillary did well out of the votes so far. Interesting. I wonder if they're gay, or just gay friendly? But that's a whole other question.

Thanks again for the correct wording.

[goodhue]

12. Kucinich won

[David Zephyr]

13. It was a great framework for a forum. I think all the candidates did well.

I think they all did well and spoke from their hearts. I like the framework that the HRC and Logo established. It was refreshing.

[Bitwit1234]

14. Really and truly what difference does it make

Do you let polls influence you. I think everyone makes up their own mind. They aren't influenced by the leventy million polls they keep running.

[Divine Discontent]

16. I do let them inform me when I generally believe those to be polled as

having honesty. And I think DU has some of the best people in the US on it. So, a poll from our dedicated users helps me see how trends are effecting the race, and also, maybe show something I might have missed. Do you not find interest in polls and click on them to see them when they're posted here, ever?

[Cameron27]

15. Alright, here's my opinion. I think both Clinton and Kucinich won last night

but Kucinich sprinkled a little bit of new-age seasoning on his comments and that may have turned off some folks.

I've said this before, Obama really disappointed me with the comments in the questionnaire about marriage being reserved only for a man and a woman, and Edwards never explained why he continues to have a personal conflict that's the basis for his being against gay marriage. The fact that Edwards seemed to feel proud that he was being honest about having a personal bias strikes me as odd.

Clinton framed her views on the fact that this proposal wouldn't get passed the Republicans yet, which may not be all that courageous but still makes me believe that she herself has no problems with this issue.

It's very difficult for me to have faith in anyone who still personally opposes a civil rights issue no matter how much lip service they give to honoring those rights. Don't tell us you're conflicted about it, go and seek counseling for godssake.

[Colobo]

17. No true winners, and just one loser: Richardson.

[Wwagsthedog]

18. Other

nt

[rjones2818]

19. A meme-er apparently.

Gee, only questions in the poll about HRC, BO and JE or other. It can't be that hard to type out everyone's name.

Particularly the winner: Dennis Kucinich!

Go Dennis!
http://dennis4president.com

}(

[LWolf]

20. Kucinich was clearly the winner.

This blog on the Washington Post did not even mention Kucinich. Several of the comments posted in response do, though, and are revealing:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/channel-08/2007/08/aflcio_debate_highlights.html

[Kahuna]

21. I have not been a Hillary booster. But I have to admit that she is an

excellent debater. I can see her wiping the floor with whomever her repuke challenger is. And THAT makes me very happy.

[flpoljunkie]

22. Barack was preferred candidate in online vote with 43% followed by Kucinich at 24%, Hillary, 16%

Who's your candidate?

43% Barack Obama

24% Dennis Kucinich

16% Hillary Clinton

8% Mike Gravel

6% John Edwards

3% Bill Richardson

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/

[Divine Discontent]

23. the 3% of gay or 'friends of GLBT' people who chose Richardson

must like being told they chose to be gay, just like he chose to be straight....

or they didn't watch the debate.

[Divine Discontent]

24. interesting... n/t

[Grandrose]

26. LOL....thank you for short and sweet and to the point!

I really like your post...some people on DU tend to obfuscate when Obama does well!:thumbsup:

[Cameron27]

29. The problem is that anyone can vote, and vote more than once!

I just voted 5 times, a vote for each candidate except Richardson lol

[flpoljunkie]

30. True, but doesn't that make it worse that Hillary is still in third place? Numbers unchanged today.

Who's your candidate?

43% Barack Obama

24% Dennis Kucinich

16% Hillary Clinton

9% Mike Gravel

6% John Edwards

3% Bill Richardson

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/

[AlCzervik]

25. imo Kucinich won.

[zulchzulu]

27. She "looked so fabulous"...

I guess nobody noticed that she was the last to sign up for the debate AND she dodged the questions about why she didn't work on "Don't Ask Don't Tell" when she was first in the Senate.

Like her husband, who does a great "I feel your pain" act while he signs NAFTA and other horrible legislation, she says utter crap about how she will do all kinds of things...even though she has had time to do the things she now promises.

She's a bullshit artist like her husband.

[Vidar]

28. Kucinich won. Hillary didn't even place.

[robcon]

31. New Yorkers love Hillary. Very, very popular senator.

That will always color a survey by the New York Post, IMO.

[rucky]

32. Gravel won this one.

Kucinich not far behind.

[Dawgs]

33. I thought she connected the best with the group that was there, but...

If you read every live blog that night you will see that most people thought Hillary was doing a really poor job.

I think it's the media and her supporters that are propping her up.

[IndianaGreen]

34. Kucinich believes in equal rights for LGBTs; Hillary doesn't!

Rupert Murdoch likes Hillary, so it follows that his NY Post will publish positive stories about her.

[Imagevision]

35. -->NY. Post is owned by Ruppert Murdoch (FOXnews etc.) what do you expect, everyone on

the FOXnews channel has been vocal on their support over Obama because it's easier to smear Hillary then anyone else. New York Post = FOXnews